CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #5

[AddyFinch]

DM might not persue searching for them if all things point to stranger abduction. He has no legal rights. But he could fight a custody battle for toddler, unless he couldn’t find her either?

 

[Snoop Sister]

I don't think we should generalize and assume that developmental delay in this case is a result of abuse or neglect.

DD is frequently associated with autism (which is not known to be caused by abuse or neglect and more likely due to a genetic component).

According to experts, the cause of DD is not always known, and there are many possible causes.

from: Developmental Delay

What causes developmental delay?​

Prematurity, medical problems (ranging from stroke to chronic ear infection), lead poisoning, and trauma all have the potential to cause developmental delay, but sometimes the cause is unknown. Ann L. Close, PhD, a Yale Medicine Child Study Center clinical psychologist and associate director of the Infancy & Early Childhood Program, specializes in the assessment and treatment of children under 5. She urges all parents concerned about a child’s development to discuss it with their pediatrician.

IMO, it's possible that someone (whether neighbor, school employee, etc) who didn't fully understand that Jack or Lilly had DD, who was critical / judgmental of the family home, perceived their behavior to be due to abuse or neglect, and called CPS anonymously to report.

JMO.

Lilly and Jack have never been officially tested for autism. So, there could be other reasons for their behaviour and developmental delays. Perhaps as well as autism. I don’t think we are or least I am assuming developmental delays are a result of abuse or neglect but there is a high correlation between the two.

There are many studies that show the correlation between abuse and neglect and developmental delays. I am not saying this is the case with Lilly and Jack but it could be. Since the school did a report to child welfare they must have been aware of issues at school and home and suspected something related to abuse and or neglect. The following is one article on neglect and abuse.

“Children who have experienced abuse and neglect are therefore at increased risk for a number of problematic developmental, health, and mental health outcomes, including learning problems (e.g., problems with inattention and deficits in executive functions), problems relating to peers (e.g., peer rejection), internalizing symptoms (e.g., depression, anxiety), externalizing symptoms (e.g., oppositional defiant disorder, conduct disorder, aggression), and posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD). As adults, these children continue to show increased risk for psychiatric disorders, substance use, serious medical illnesses, and lower economic productivity.”

Consequences of Child Abuse and Neglect - New Directions in Child Abuse and Neglect Research - NCBI Bookshelf

 

[MistyWaters]

I doubt it was this. They’d have to present the children sometime.

If it was part of a planned exit MBM would have said so as soon as the authorities showed up. No need for pretending it was an abduction or getting lost in the forest. DM had no legal right to stop them from leaving, he’s not their biological father, he’s not even their step-father, he was just their mother’s live-in boyfriend.

Is Canada so unique that it’s the only country that recognizes common law relationships? I don’t think so. DM was not ‘just’ their mother’s live-in boyfriend. Infact he owned the home she and her children lived in during the time of their common law relationship.

Common Law Relationships - Legal Information Society of Nova Scotia

www.legalinfo.org

A common-law relationship is one where:

• the partners live together in a marriage-like relationship, for example, by sharing finances and referring to themselves in public as partners or spouses
• the partners are not legally married to each other
• the partners meet other criteria to be considered spouses. For example, they must have lived together for a certain period, typically 1 to 2 years.

Common-law partners can register their relationship with the government of Nova Scotia. If they do this, the partners will have many of the same rights as married people. This includes pension benefits and the share of assets when the partners separate or one dies

 

[TMich6811]

They have never been officially tested for autism. There are many studies that show the correlation between abuse and neglect and developmental delays.

“Children who have experienced abuse and neglect are therefore at increased risk for a number of problematic developmental, health, and mental health outcomes, including learning problems (e.g., problems with inattention and deficits in executive functions), problems relating to peers (e.g., peer rejection), internalizing symptoms (e.g., depression, anxiety), externalizing symptoms (e.g., oppositional defiant disorder, conduct disorder, aggression), and posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD). As adults, these children continue to show increased risk for psychiatric disorders, substance use, serious medical illnesses, and lower economic productivity.”

Consequences of Child Abuse and Neglect - New Directions in Child Abuse and Neglect Research - NCBI Bookshelf

Do we know for sure they haven’t been tested?

 

[TMich6811]

They have never been officially tested for autism. There are many studies that show the correlation between abuse and neglect and developmental delays.

“Children who have experienced abuse and neglect are therefore at increased risk for a number of problematic developmental, health, and mental health outcomes, including learning problems (e.g., problems with inattention and deficits in executive functions), problems relating to peers (e.g., peer rejection), internalizing symptoms (e.g., depression, anxiety), externalizing symptoms (e.g., oppositional defiant disorder, conduct disorder, aggression), and posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD). As adults, these children continue to show increased risk for psychiatric disorders, substance use, serious medical illnesses, and lower economic productivity.”

Consequences of Child Abuse and Neglect - New Directions in Child Abuse and Neglect Research - NCBI Bookshelf

I’m team the school probably reported them because of neglect. But….

There are mannnny many many many aspects of developmental delays that are or are not autism and are not related to current neglect. Many of which are just biological/genes/fetal alcohol/vaccines (not saying this causes autism but sometimes have reactions)/birth trauma/injury during childhood/unknown factors

It doesn’t have to be autism to be a delay caused by natural factors is what I am saying.

And personally I feel that if the school reported them, they know more that resulted in a report.

But also I’m not sure we know concretely that the school reported them do we

 

[Snoop Sister]

Do we know for sure they haven’t been tested?

Yes in links I think in the first thread it was stated by whom I forget but it was clarified that they have not been tested.

 

[Serononin]

I wonder why the boot print hasn't been verified as belonging to the children? Surely that would be easy to match as they know the brand of boots and the size?

I'm puzzled about the blanket scrap too. Blankets don't just fall apart and although in thick bush it's easy to tear some fabrics, it's not so easy for a piece to detach - as in the phrase 'hanging on by a thread'. Presumably it's not a knitted blanket as although this would be easy to catch, a detached piece would be a strand of yarn and I don't think this could be described as a scrap of blanket. Fleece is common for kids blankets these days, I have a Walmart fleece blanket many years older than these children and I can't imagine a piece would tear off if I was carrying it or was wrapped in it in the woods. If it caught tight, I don't think a person would have the strength to tear it away. It would tear if it was caught in machinery though, so I hope this possibility is being looked at.

I had one of those 'cellular blankets' (the baby blankets with the holes in them) when I was little that, by the time I was Lilly's age, was well-loved to the point that it was falling apart. If I'd snagged that blanket on something, I could definitely see a whole piece coming off it. That said, I definitely would've noticed that happening and probably would've taken the piece with me rather than leaving it there (and if I'd had a backpack with me, as Lilly did, I probably would've had the blanket in the backpack so it didn't get snagged in the first place)

 

[MistyWaters]

Do we know for sure they haven’t been tested?

Both DM and MBM mentioned it during their early interviews. The paternal grandma just refers to a ‘learning disability’ although she says she hadn’t seen the children for a couple of years.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/lilly-sullivan-jack-missing-amber-alert-1.7253468

“Lilly and Jack's mother and stepfather have both spoken to the media about how the siblings could have autism, but it has not been diagnosed…..

…..These are vulnerable kids," Gray said in a recent interview. "They do have a bit of a learning disability, so that puts them even more vulnerable……”

 

[MistyWaters]

I had one of those 'cellular blankets' (the baby blankets with the holes in them) when I was little that, by the time I was Lilly's age, was well-loved to the point that it was falling apart. If I'd snagged that blanket on something, I could definitely see a whole piece coming off it. That said, I definitely would've noticed that happening and probably would've taken the piece with me rather than leaving it there (and if I'd had a backpack with me, as Lilly did, I probably would've had the blanket in the backpack so it didn't get snagged in the first place)

It’s very unusual that nobody mentioned a beloved blanket that Lilly took with her absolutely everywhere when she first went missing.

A DNA test would’ve indicated if the piece of blanket belonged to her.

 

[Sillybilly]

They have never been officially tested for autism. There are many studies that show the correlation between abuse and neglect and developmental delays.

“Children who have experienced abuse and neglect are therefore at increased risk for a number of problematic developmental, health, and mental health outcomes, including learning problems (e.g., problems with inattention and deficits in executive functions), problems relating to peers (e.g., peer rejection), internalizing symptoms (e.g., depression, anxiety), externalizing symptoms (e.g., oppositional defiant disorder, conduct disorder, aggression), and posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD). As adults, these children continue to show increased risk for psychiatric disorders, substance use, serious medical illnesses, and lower economic productivity.”

Consequences of Child Abuse and Neglect - New Directions in Child Abuse and Neglect Research - NCBI Bookshelf

I know they haven't been tested for autism. DM is the one who referred to them possibly having autism, so it is relevant to the discussion. Whether it's his own personal belief or he has been led to believe that, we don't know. We only know that it has been discussed as a possibility somewhere along the line.

In the link provided the term "developmental" is not used in the specific context of a "developmental delay" diagnosis. None of us here is an expert, but from my own family experiences, I am very aware that many of these conditions are comorbid (autism, ADHD, C-PTSD, depression, bipolar, autism, GDD) are all conditions that are frequently co-morbid with one or more of the others, and many have a strong genetic component.

All this said, and NOT directed at you, but where are the links to support such speculation and/or accusation that Jack and Lilly were abused and neglected?

 

[Serononin]

It’s very unusual that nobody mentioned a beloved blanket that Lilly took with her absolutely everywhere when she first went missing.

A DNA test would’ve indicated if the piece of blanket belonged to her.

I agree. Tbh I'm surprised there hasn't (as far as I've seen) been mention of any of the items that might've been in Lilly's backpack

 

[Sarahlou]

I know they haven't been tested for autism. DM is the one who referred to them possibly having autism. so it is relevant to the discussion. Whether it's his own personal belief or he has been led to believe that, we don't know. We only know that it has been discussed as a possibility somewhere along the line.

In the link provided the term "developmental" is not used in the specific context of a "developmental delay" diagnosis. None of us here is an expert, but from my own family experiences, I am very aware that many of these conditions are comorbid (autism, ADHD, C-PTSD, depression, bipolar, autism, GDD) are all conditions that are frequently co-morbid with one or more of the others, and many have a strong genetic component.

All this said, and NOT directed at you, but where are the links to support such speculation and/or accusation that Jack and Lilly were abused and neglected?

There's not but the fact is both are missing without a trace.
This could show whoever reported the family to child protection services could have had valid concerns that we are unaware of.
I don't think it's a coincidence that there was a concern raised about them and then both kids ended up missing. But that's JMO.

 

[KBlackRabbit]

Is Canada so unique that it’s the only country that recognizes common law relationships? I don’t think so. DM was not ‘just’ their mother’s live-in boyfriend. Infact he owned the home she and her children lived in during the time of their common law relationship.

Common Law Relationships - Legal Information Society of Nova Scotia

www.legalinfo.org

A common-law relationship is one where:

• the partners live together in a marriage-like relationship, for example, by sharing finances and referring to themselves in public as partners or spouses
• the partners are not legally married to each other
• the partners meet other criteria to be considered spouses. For example, they must have lived together for a certain period, typically 1 to 2 years.

Common-law partners can register their relationship with the government of Nova Scotia. If they do this, the partners will have many of the same rights as married people. This includes pension benefits and the share of assets when the partners separate or one dies

In terms of Lily and Jack, he’s just the live-in boyfriend. He has no rights to them.

 

[AddyFinch]

All this said, and NOT directed at you, but where are the links to support such speculation and/or accusation that Jack and Lilly were abused and neglected?

Grandmother’s admission of changes in home/ neglect Grandmothers interview

 

[ttjo]

I doubt it was this. They’d have to present the children sometime.

If it was part of a planned exit MBM would have said so as soon as the authorities showed up. No need for pretending it was an abduction or getting lost in the forest. DM had no legal right to stop them from leaving, he’s not their biological father, he’s not even their step-father, he was just their mother’s live-in boyfriend.

I understand there was no need to stage an abduction, however it’s not about how we think or what seems logical to us.
It’s about how they think. How planned was this ? Like really ? And how much was “ oh oh “ and reacting.
He wasn’t just a live in boyfriend. They have a child together.
It may not he this but what else do you have to go on that can make any sense of this.
I’d like to know if it’s true that he doesn’t have visitation with their baby and why she does. Even if she is considered supervised by family. He doesn’t get the same opportunity ?
How does that happen? that’s a real question not rhetorical
Problem with this case is we have barely any facts
So what do you go on ? Very little MSM or law enforcement info

 

[DMB]

I'm curious where you're getting it was "likely hours" that the kids were unsupervised.

- 6:17am mom marks them absent through the Arrive Safe app
- sometime that morning Lilly comes into the room & Jack is heard in the kitchen
- parents drift off to sleep & wake up 20 minutes or so later (according to DM) and they don't hear the kids - he starts searching & she calls 911

Hours between the absent report and the 911 call yes, but I've not seen it reported anywhere what time the kids themselves woke up, or that they were unsupervised for hours that morning.

It hasn't been until very recently that we have heard the children were reported to be not going to school at 6:15. It was understood that the mother did not see the children that morning, only Danielle saw Lilly and heard what he believed to be Jack in kitchen.

 

[ttjo]

Is Canada so unique that it’s the only country that recognizes common law relationships? I don’t think so. DM was not ‘just’ their mother’s live-in boyfriend. Infact he owned the home she and her children lived in during the time of their common law relationship.

Common Law Relationships - Legal Information Society of Nova Scotia

www.legalinfo.org

A common-law relationship is one where:

• the partners live together in a marriage-like relationship, for example, by sharing finances and referring to themselves in public as partners or spouses
• the partners are not legally married to each other
• the partners meet other criteria to be considered spouses. For example, they must have lived together for a certain period, typically 1 to 2 years.

Common-law partners can register their relationship with the government of Nova Scotia. If they do this, the partners will have many of the same rights as married people. This includes pension benefits and the share of assets when the partners separate or one dies

He owned the home and more but you can’t say what’s not in MSM
That’s what’s difficult here it’s unconfirmed. Yet believable

 

[Snoop Sister]

I know they haven't been tested for autism. DM is the one who referred to them possibly having autism, so it is relevant to the discussion. Whether it's his own personal belief or he has been led to believe that, we don't know. We only know that it has been discussed as a possibility somewhere along the line.

In the link provided the term "developmental" is not used in the specific context of a "developmental delay" diagnosis. None of us here is an expert, but from my own family experiences, I am very aware that many of these conditions are comorbid (autism, ADHD, C-PTSD, depression, bipolar, autism, GDD) are all conditions that are frequently co-morbid with one or more of the others, and many have a strong genetic component.

All this said, and NOT directed at you, but where are the links to support such speculation and/or accusation that Jack and Lilly were abused and neglected?

This is another article re neglect and the correlation to developmental delay and failure to thrive. There are only so many reasons a report to CW would be investigated. Things such as a parental substance abuse, poor school attendance, lack of lunch food, unexplained bruises are examples that can be considered or be related to neglect or abuse. I am not saying this is the case. But, the majority of cases reported to Child Welfare are directly or indirectly related to abuse or neglect. Imoo. However, it is possible the report may stem from concerns about a their development or the need for early intervention services, which they weren’t getting? But imo that is neglect as well.

Child abuse and neglect

myhealth.alberta.ca

• Neglect is when parents or caregivers fail to ensure a child's health and well-being. Neglect may result from not providing a child with appropriate shelter, schooling, clothing, medical care, or protection from hazards. A variety of short-term and long-term problems result, such as developmental delays and failure to thrive.

DM is the one who said child welfare investigated due to Lilly and Jack’s developmental issues? I am not sure, I will recheck this and correct if I am wrong. I believe I previously said that developmental delays COULD also be a component of abuse or neglect. Personally, I have never made that accusation js.

 

[Snoop Sister]

@MistyWaters do have the link where DM talks about the Child Welfares previous involvement? Or anyone?

 

[ttjo]

It hasn't been until very recently that we have heard the children were reported to be not going to school at 6:15. It was understood that the mother did not see the children that morning, only Danielle saw Lilly and heard what he believed to be Jack in kitchen.

Problem is I’m not sure that was the truth. That story has slightly changed a few times.