CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #6

[Twistinginthewind]

@Twisitnginthewind- does it feel as though you’ve been left twisting in the wind, lol, no replies since Saturday??
I also like to “unpack” what we know so far. If the investigation isn’t going anywhere, I think it’s good to go back to the beginning, and apply some “what ifs”, whys, etc.
What if DM and MBM have given an inaccurate account with respect to timing? This is not to say they are responsible. For example, if drink or drugs had been a part of the previous night, as a family under CPS scrutiny, they might not want to be forthright about that. If the children actually disappeared earlier than stated, this gives a lot of time for wandering farther, or a potential escape for anyone who might have taken them.
What if the report of a 5 speed car coming and going in the night is true? What might be a reason for multiple trips? It’s easy to speculate and say “to dispose of a body/bodies”, as shocking as that sounds. But why would it take more than one trip? So then who was it and why were they coming and going?
Why was there only one child bootprint found (or 2 bootprints, at 2 different locations) Why not more of both children’s prints? And, related to this, if taken, why were there no footprints from the person or people who took them away?
If taken then evidently they were taken on foot, if the bootprints authentically belong to J or L, why take them away on foot and not by car? The area is remote and unpopulated, they’re unlikely to be seen.
If taken, how is it the person or people taking them was careless enough to leave behind the partial pink blanket?
On the other hand, if they were actually taken by car, as we know scent dogs tracked the children to the roadside, how do we explain the partial blanket and bootprint being found away from the property?
This is all my own hypothesizing and wondering, and imho.

I’d love to do some more unpacking. What is niggling at your mind?

Ha ha, yes, I feel like my moniker more often than not, a lot, on a lot of cases in the 11 years since I joined WS to follow the Erin Corwin missing case (she was pregnant, married, and murdered by her secret lover and he dumped her body down a mine shaft, but as with alot of missing person cases, it took months to investigate & years to bring him to trial and convict him).

I wasn't really expecting any replies to my unpacking (again), so not twisting about that, but appreciate your thoughtful reply and queries, @Slebby, and am looking forward to chewing the fat on this case.

It's really a stumper, if there's such a word, what in h e double toothpicks happened to these two sweet & innocent little sibs who looked so happy & full of life in the photos that have been published.....

I'm going to mull over your great thoughts/q's and noodle over things some more, and maybe something else will burble up to the surface of my mind to post about.

That process, for me anyway (the burbling) is a sloooowwww one and there's no rushing it.

I liken it to a photograph in a chemical bath (old school) slowly developing from greyness to a clarity of the image, and then I'm like "oh yeah! Now I can see it better... wow, what about...?"

I'm also a mom and feel very protective of and looove all children (like most), am very detail oriented, have a photographic memory, and am like a dog with a bone (tenacious as I've been called), so I'm in it for the long haul for Lilly and Jack.

I'm hoping the empty space here and in MSM is filled in as soon as RCMP can make the right kind of headway.

 

[wvmoonangel]

Has there been any recent developments or updates? I seems like it's going cold.

 

[su5ie]

Found it, searched for this excellent post that’s been rolling around in my memory. I think it’s right on and this is why the investigation doesn’t appear to be going in any one direction almost four months later. Everything we think we know can’t possibly all be true.

Pollute the investigation enough that it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff and find the needle buried in the haystack

 

[su5ie]

I often wonder if the kids made it home to the property but it would be highly unusual to stop at the side of a road to kill and bury your children on the way home from grocery shopping even in the realms of the macabre and horrific.

But I do wonder if they prehaps were dropped somewhere like to a relative and somehow got into difficulty there and either got lost from that location or died and it was concealed .

It might make more sense as to why MBM , DM and janie would feel compelled to cover it up .

I'm trying to make sense above of why the rcmp have not confirmed if extra footage showed the two kids returned home or the very least were spotted by cctv further along the route than the shopping centre .

Until this is confirmed I will continue to take the 1st of May as date last seen .

The biggest puzzle for me in all this is the actions of mbm ,that is not a criticism of her and her actions are her business . But from other cases on WS and recent ones at that silence from the mum is usually a red flag that something nefarious has happened.

What brings me back to believing it may sincerely be a case of a wandering and getting lost is that mbm and dm are separated so if there was a case of one of them hurting the children one would have spoken up by now

And while cps involvement prior to the disappearance may indicate a concern for the children safety Was it the same concerns of possible neglect and physical abuse that allowed the wandering to happen.

In all my heart I believe if the timeline is 100% correct lilly and jack would have been found by the dogs and sars personnel.

What I do understand is conditions may not allow further searches .If the children are not found by cadaver dogs when time allows or when the rcmp decides if this will happen , they are not in the woods .

It would be an interesting experiment to see if a blanket cast into the woods from the exact point of DMs garbage would blow far enough to not only get stuck onto spruce tree branches but to become so entangled that it would wrap around the trunk of the tree . Especially given the density of the forest and distance covered . Was it a marker for how far the children were allowed to go unsupervised or was it a marker of where the kids are concealed. Or a meeting point ?

And I won't even start again on DMs two missing sweaters

 

[su5ie]

If the kids were knock down and killed . Prehaps running down the hill from the Fort as dusk approached. I noticed this is the area where janie was apparently raking for a pool .

Is this the same area DM was repairing a fence? , I don't know if this specific area has been pointed out . But if it was in the same area janie was raking prehaps there was a vehicle involved.

Now I'm sure the RCMP have investigated this angle but it has played on my mind as a possibility.

I hope I'm not coming across as victim blaming I'm just fleshing out hypothetical scenarios as I just can't understand the timeline and how it lines up with the children not being found and all the other things that don't make sense to me

 

[Slebby]

Something else that has always bothered me is the fact it’s 2 kids missing, not just one. Why?

Abduction - nefarious reasons - it’s rare to grab 2 kids. When was the opportunity for the abduction presented? Was it really just wrong place wrong time for L and J? For example, they wandered to the roadside at the precise moment evil drove by? In a remote, sparsely populated part of the world? What are the odds? And again, weird to take 2. And also does not account for the finding of the pink blanket scrap so far from the home.

Abduction - for the perceived good of the children - someone who considers the children to be in an unsafe situation, wants to rescue them, take them somewhere safe. Possibly with MBM involvement, or not. There’s been rumours of this, which are very appealing, because it’s a scenario in which the children are actually safe. I would love for this to be the case! The fact that it’s 2 children, makes sense, rescue them both. But then why not rescue Meadow too? And again, where does the pink blanket fit in to this scenario?

Wandered away together into the woods. Notwithstanding the comments made by the woman from the search and rescue team, her belief the children are still in the woods, I find it hard to believe they’ve been missed after so much time and effort from a large search team.

Hit by car - Interesting, idea, Su5ie, knocked down and killed by a vehicle, an accident. One time, I was driving home I live in the country) I drove into my long drive. Our 2 dogs came out of nowhere, hubby had let them out, and I came within inches of running over both dogs. I was standing on my brakes, bracing myself for the crunch of bones, it was awful. So I could see how easy it might be to run over 2 kids. I could see, if it happened on the road - kids wandered to the road - and were struck by a driver, who panicked and hid their bodies. I have often thought so many unsolved missing persons cases could be just this sort of situation. But again, that blanket fragment, how to account for it showing up near a bootprint at a distance from the home, not on the roadside?

Just more puzzling over this case…

IMHO

 

[su5ie]

Something else that has always bothered me is the fact it’s 2 kids missing, not just one. Why?

Abduction - nefarious reasons - it’s rare to grab 2 kids. When was the opportunity for the abduction presented? Was it really just wrong place wrong time for L and J? For example, they wandered to the roadside at the precise moment evil drove by? In a remote, sparsely populated part of the world? What are the odds? And again, weird to take 2. And also does not account for the finding of the pink blanket scrap so far from the home.

Abduction - for the perceived good of the children - someone who considers the children to be in an unsafe situation, wants to rescue them, take them somewhere safe. Possibly with MBM involvement, or not. There’s been rumours of this, which are very appealing, because it’s a scenario in which the children are actually safe. I would love for this to be the case! The fact that it’s 2 children, makes sense, rescue them both. But then why not rescue Meadow too? And again, where does the pink blanket fit in to this scenario?

Wandered away together into the woods. Notwithstanding the comments made by the woman from the search and rescue team, her belief the children are still in the woods, I find it hard to believe they’ve been missed after so much time and effort from a large search team.

Hit by car - Interesting, idea, Su5ie, knocked down and killed by a vehicle, an accident. One time, I was driving home I live in the country) I drove into my long drive. Our 2 dogs came out of nowhere, hubby had let them out, and I came within inches of running over both dogs. I was standing on my brakes, bracing myself for the crunch of bones, it was awful. So I could see how easy it might be to run over 2 kids. I could see, if it happened on the road - kids wandered to the road - and were struck by a driver, who panicked and hid their bodies. I have often thought so many unsolved missing persons cases could be just this sort of situation. But again, that blanket fragment, how to account for it showing up near a bootprint at a distance from the home, not on the roadside?

Just more puzzling over this case…

IMHO

Vehicle accident is my number 1 suspicion if accidental homicide .

We have bore witness to loads of cases in which a child has been killed in the home but in all those cases siblings didn't die too . Even in the vallow case I think she killed them separately and in cases where I've seen siblings killed together normally it is murder / suicide .

Even if accidental both children consuming drugs either prescription or illegal would be extremely rare ,I don't think I've heard of a case involving two siblings doing that , both children drowning in say a bath Even that is hard to think of as a logical explanation of accidental death but a vehicle running over two kids is a possibility imo

Regarding the neighbour allegedly hearing a vehicle during the hours of 12am and 5am and seemingly being sure enough that it was the same 5 speed he heard during those hours tells me either there was drag racing going on , or something else .

What reason would a person have for driving at speed up and down the same road during those hours and was the racket only confined to that night or was it a regular occurrence. In my opinion there is only three reasons for that kind of night time activity . Drugs , racing ( often involves drug taking ) or commiting of a crime

Could the smell of petrichcor after heavy rain confuse the dogs in getting a scent ??

Petrichor: What Causes the Earthy Smell After Rain?

There's often a strong, quite pleasant, smell right after a rain shower. What accounts for petrichor, the 'smell of rain'?

science.howstuffworks.com

Rain Is for the Dogs - Healdsburg Tribune

After a rain, outdoor settings smell fresher, better. The word for that smell is “petrichor.” Scents are more easily detected on cool, moist days because water molecules capture scents and “hold” them for all to smell. Morning dew aggregates scent molecules. That’s one reason why tracking dogs...

www.healdsburgtribune.com

So in the second article it states morning dew can aggregate scent molecules. So does that mean it clumps them together if so does that mean prehaps the dogs couldn't catch a scent because all the scents were clumped together?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Some things to ponder about the vehicle heard:

• A vehicle coming and going - could be someone transporting something back and forth. But I don't think we know if a short distance or long distance? We do not know if vehicle was out of the area/out of sight coming back and forth or on the road going back and forth within eye sight.
  
  
• A vehicle coming and going - could be someone surveilling, watching, wating? Getting up nerve? Waiting for the right time? Waiting for lights out or to meet someone when everyone is asleep? Or waiting until morning, knowing kids might wait for the bus. Dare I say, sounds a bit like the killer with the Idaho 4 who went around the block quite a few times waiting for lights out to make "his move"
  
  
• We are not sure of loud revving, only that neighbour heard a 5 speed which could be being driven normally and not revving up. They just might know their engines, so car could have been driving normally, slowly or cautiously but neighbour could tell gears were shifted

 

[Sjöberg]

Wandered away together into the woods. Notwithstanding the comments made by the woman from the search and rescue team, her belief the children are still in the woods, I find it hard to believe they’ve been missed after so much time and effort from a large search team.

Actually, I do believe they could have been missed. For sure. Kids are small. Kids hid themselves. Canadian wilderness is BIG. Kids that are not found during initial searches are often either out of the search area (we underestimate them) or simply missed. All it takes is one searcher doing one mistake. And IMO while everything else is less likely to happen to two siblings together (murder, accidental death, abduction etc), the one thing that seems more likely is running away (for purpose or accidentally during play). It is not my main theory for timeline reasons, however, I am unable to rule that out. Especially considering the bootprint: SOME little kid clearly was on the pipeline trail. If it wasn't Lilly and Jack, who was it? It's not like it's a popular place to spend time with family.

We have bore witness to loads of cases in which a child has been killed in the home but in all those cases siblings didn't die too . Even in the vallow case I think she killed them separately and in cases where I've seen siblings killed together normally it is murder / suicide .

Yes, it really is super rare. I can recall one case of young twins, where we suspected mental ilness of the mother (and she indeed is in a psychiatric hospital soon after). It is similar in the sense that the kids were home with an illness, they roled CoD suffocation, but frankly, I think that case had a very different vibe. Also, paramedics were called to the kids, the kids were never missing. I am not saying L&J were not killed by immediate family, it remains one of my top theories, but for now, I have seen no hints about neither the method nor the motive nor the culprit.

Even if accidental both children consuming drugs either prescription or illegal would be extremely rare ,I don't think I've heard of a case involving two siblings doing that , both children drowning in say a bath Even that is hard to think of as a logical explanation of accidental death but a vehicle running over two kids is a possibility imo

A vehicle accident does seem possible for seriously hurting two kids at once, especially kids of a similar age who play together. I find it hard to believe there would be no evidence of that, but if there was relatively little blood and the bodies were moved quickly, then maybe. But I feel the injuries of both kids would have to be pretty obvius (=blood) for the ambulance to not even be called by either parent.

I must say, this really is one of the cases where everything seems kind-of-possible and nothing at all seems likely.

 

[FromGermany1]

What if the report of a 5 speed car coming and going in the night is true? What might be a reason for multiple trips? It’s easy to speculate and say “to dispose of a body/bodies”, as shocking as that sounds. But why would it take more than one trip? So then who was it and why were they coming and going?

Also my thoughts. Although I believe, it has something to do with the children's disappearance. But what exactly??
ETA: Did someone unknown move out of the trailer by night?? Someone, who's presence wouldn't have been accepted by CPS? A move would be an explanation for several trips with a "5-speed car" (or any car).

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Two children missing from the house.
Two adult sweaters missing from the house.
Vehicle possibly heard coming and going during the night.
Parents separated quickly afterwards.
Mother allegedly left the area where kids were last seen and has not been reported by media to have gone back (?)
Mother had allegedly been wanting to leave the relationship.

 

[303gmf]

Did this mother, MBM, ever once go outside herself or attempt to hike out a bit to search for her children?
Walk up and down the road for miles ?
Call for them from an ATV?
A vehicle she owned right there to drive while searching?
Scream, cry, run, panic or act like a mother whose children might have wandered away from home or been abducted?

Not from day one if I remember, odd and unsurprisingly unusual

 

[Ontario Mom]

Did this mother, MBM, ever once go outside herself or attempt to hike out a bit to search for her children?
Walk up and down the road for miles ?
Call for them from an ATV?
A vehicle she owned right there to drive while searching?
Scream, cry, run, panic or act like a mother whose children might have wandered away from home or been abducted?

Not from day one if I remember, odd and unsurprisingly unusual

She cried on camera once in an interview, then left the property and never came back.

 

[Slebby]

Did this mother, MBM, ever once go outside herself or attempt to hike out a bit to search for her children?
Walk up and down the road for miles ?
Call for them from an ATV?
A vehicle she owned right there to drive while searching?
Scream, cry, run, panic or act like a mother whose children might have wandered away from home or been abducted?

Not from day one if I remember, odd and unsurprisingly unusual

Some good questions.
Interestingly, if step-gramma JM is to be believed, she came out of her camper, MBM was on the driveway with baby on her hip. MBM said “the children are missing”, not “have you seen the children?” IMO, she skipped past determining if JM had even seen the kids, and skipped past enlisting JM’s help to find them. She jumped straight to a conclusion: they’re missing. To me, this feels odd. IMO.

 

[Slebby]

What if there was a pre-arranged, planned removal of the 2 children? Someone was coming in the night to pick them up and bring them to, shall we say, a safer environment. For whatever reason, the handoff couldn’t happen at the appointed time. The car came back. Then came back again and again, until the handoff happened (perhaps at 5 am, the last time noted by the neighbour of hearing the 5 speed come and go)
Based on MBM’s relative calm in her one interview, in comparison to DM’s demeanour, and the possibly she had “wanted out”, as mentioned in the recent G and M coverage, I would theorize it was MBM orchestrating the handoff.

This would, however, call into question the accuracy of JM’s account of hearing the children outside at the swings early in the morning.

All speculation, spitballing, and my own opinion.

 

[crcap]

Actually, I do believe they could have been missed. For sure. Kids are small. Kids hid themselves. Canadian wilderness is BIG. Kids that are not found during initial searches are often either out of the search area (we underestimate them) or simply missed. All it takes is one searcher doing one mistake. And IMO while everything else is less likely to happen to two siblings together (murder, accidental death, abduction etc), the one thing that seems more likely is running away (for purpose or accidentally during play). It is not my main theory for timeline reasons, however, I am unable to rule that out. Especially considering the bootprint: SOME little kid clearly was on the pipeline trail. If it wasn't Lilly and Jack, who was it? It's not like it's a popular place to spend time with family.

Yes, it really is super rare. I can recall one case of young twins, where we suspected mental ilness of the mother (and she indeed is in a psychiatric hospital soon after). It is similar in the sense that the kids were home with an illness, they roled CoD suffocation, but frankly, I think that case had a very different vibe. Also, paramedics were called to the kids, the kids were never missing. I am not saying L&J were not killed by immediate family, it remains one of my top theories, but for now, I have seen no hints about neither the method nor the motive nor the culprit.

A vehicle accident does seem possible for seriously hurting two kids at once, especially kids of a similar age who play together. I find it hard to believe there would be no evidence of that, but if there was relatively little blood and the bodies were moved quickly, then maybe. But I feel the injuries of both kids would have to be pretty obvius (=blood) for the ambulance to not even be called by either parent.

I must say, this really is one of the cases where everything seems kind-of-possible and nothing at all seems likely.

Also Leslie Demeniuk killed her 4 year old twin boys. But that was deliberate murder. I haven’t seen many or any cases where two siblings died at the same time from accident, negligence and/or child abuse resulting in death (like I think happened with Lily and Jack).

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I also think the most likely reason for an accidental killing of Lilly and Jack, IF it was one, which has been covered up very well IMO, was them getting hit by a vehicle.

One scenario if this occurred, and only based on a rumor there was a party that night at that house, would be inebriated/drug-affected adults driving in the dark and not seeing 2 little kids outdoors, and hitting them.

This would fit within the neighbor's claim about the noise from a 5 speed coming and going through the wee hours, if they were coming to party, and left and came back more than once:

To buy up more partying stuff?

To dispose of the bodies of Lilly and Jack and other significant evidence, like lumber or whatnot around the play structure or fence under repair that had blood on it?

For DM to return a borrowed 5 speed vehicle before morning and get a ride back home, because his vehicle was in need of repairs he couldn't afford at the time, IIRC?

Just my musings (JMM), hoping still to hear something soon from RCMP, especially in light of the memos from CPS being documented in MSM as being sent up the chain of the govt, IIRC.

 

[303gmf]

She cried on camera once in an interview, then left the property and never came back.

Really odd, if I thought my kids were out there you’d have to drag me away and medicate immediately.
She never searched !? In any way, shape or form makes me sad.
I’ve put more energy into hunting up missing pets than this woman

 

[Sarahlou]

Really odd, if I thought my kids were out there you’d have to drag me away and medicate immediately.
She never searched !? In any way, shape or form makes me sad.
I’ve put more energy into hunting up missing pets than this woman

You wouldn't search if you knew they hadn't wandered off though. Well, unless it was to make it look like you didn't know. JMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

Some good questions.
Interestingly, if step-gramma JM is to be believed, she came out of her camper, MBM was on the driveway with baby on her hip. MBM said “the children are missing”, not “have you seen the children?” IMO, she skipped past determining if JM had even seen the kids, and skipped past enlisting JM’s help to find them. She jumped straight to a conclusion: they’re missing. To me, this feels odd. IMO.

Diane Downs shot her three children in the back seat of her vehicle, one survived. She claimed an attempted car-jacking had occurred and the man shot the children.

Since the beginning of this case I’ve been very curious what led MBM to ask for an Amber Alert and was there more to the story? Considering the house was situated along an isolated road to nowhere, an abduction would’ve seemed an unlikely possibility. As others have said why was she not out there frantically searching the woods for her missing children? Surely the RCMP noticed her unusual behavior.

I think if police had anything on DM he’d have been charged already.
JMO