CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #7

[MistyWaters]

Anyone good at maps to give a visual of where the swamp is located in relation to the trailer

Wasn’t it the Globe and Mail that described the home to be surrounded by swamps? Google maps doesn’t reveal any shallow bodies of water in the area, other than Lansdowne Lake which was searched by divers.

So I wonder what the writer’s definition of ‘swamp’ is? It could be anything from like the Florida Everglades to common bog or muskeg, which really is only marshy soft ground. I’d be very surprised if the RCMP overlooked any wet areas because it would be opportune for leaving footprints.

We do know they utilized helicopters with heat sensor cameras and drones that had capability of small image recognition taking 70,000 pics. IMO their search was as thorough as possible benefited by various modern devices.
JMO

 

[su5ie]

Wasn’t it the Globe and Mail that described the home to be surrounded by swamps? Google maps doesn’t reveal any shallow bodies of water in the area, other than Lansdowne Lake which was searched by divers.

So I wonder what the writer’s definition of ‘swamp’ is? It could be anything from like the Florida Everglades to common bog or muskeg, which really is only marshy soft ground. I’d be very surprised if the RCMP overlooked any wet areas because it would be opportune for leaving footprints.

We do know they utilized helicopters with heat sensor cameras and drones that had capability of small image recognition taking 70,000 pics. IMO their search was as thorough as possible benefited by various modern devices.
JMO

Yes I seen this quoted , 70,000 pics of a search area is a hell of a lot , one would conjure up imaginings that it was every square inch that was captured by the drones

What is a musket, I've never heard of that before and like learning new things

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes I seen this quoted , 70,000 pics of a search area is a hell of a lot , one would conjure up imaginings that it was every square inch that was captured by the drones

What is a musket, I've never heard of that before and like learning new things

Muskeg is just marshy ground that feet sink into. Very common in Canada.

Muskeg (from Cree maskek and Ojibwe mashkiig, meaning “grassy bog”)

https://thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/muskeg#:~:text=Muskeg%20(from%20Cree%20maskek%20and,courtesy%20Gord%20McKenna%20/%20Flickr%20CC)

 

[musicaljoke]

DM states case should have been closed from the start , I'm assuming meaning after that first search ,OK Wow . First of all he states a huge amount of resources have gone into searching the woods and then he states peoples time and injuries.

I get empathy prehaps concern for people giving so much of themselves to the search . But would grateful not be better words to express here!! What I don't get is his his worry about how much money is being spent on finding his step children. From the tone of the language used he seems to feel its a waste hmmm . Never heard a parent of missing children concerned about what was being spent ?? More funds yes .

Now his statement, fingers have been pointed , now let's take a look .

Question , whom has pointed fingers? The rcmp ,? YT influencers ? fb huns ? Mbms family ? Himself? As far as I'm aware only fingers being pointed are on SM and the incident that possibly could be construed as a finger pointing one could be the argument between two families on May the 3rd which was reported in msm but was that argument re meadow remaining on the property, lilly and jack or accusations being fired either way

So my summary of these statements is he feels any additional resources put into searching the woods by rcmp or volunteers is a waste of time . How does he know its not a case that they haven't been found yet and two he wants the rcmp to invest time ,money and resources into investigating whoever is at the end of the finger being pointed ??? OK

He really believes that the children never went into the woods, so logically, he would think that searching the woods is a waste of money and that resources should be directed into what he seems to believe was a kidnapping.

For all we know, he might be right, although LE has said there was no evidence of kidnapping.

Wandering into the woods is still the most likely reason and the simplest explanation for their disappearance. The woods in that area is absolutely unforgiving. If that was the way they went, it's possible that the children will never be found.

 

[musicaljoke]

Wasn’t it the Globe and Mail that described the home to be surrounded by swamps? Google maps doesn’t reveal any shallow bodies of water in the area, other than Lansdowne Lake which was searched by divers.

So I wonder what the writer’s definition of ‘swamp’ is? It could be anything from like the Florida Everglades to common bog or muskeg, which really is only marshy soft ground. I’d be very surprised if the RCMP overlooked any wet areas because it would be opportune for leaving footprints.

We do know they utilized helicopters with heat sensor cameras and drones that had capability of small image recognition taking 70,000 pics. IMO their search was as thorough as possible benefited by various modern devices.
JMO

Unfortunately, the helicopters, heat sensor cameras and drones were of limited value because of the dense tree canopy. I wish that the pics turn out to be helpful, but I don't have a lot of confidence that they will show much.

 

[OneLove]

Unfortunately, the helicopters, heat sensor cameras and drones were of limited value because of the dense tree canopy. I wish that the pics turn out to be helpful, but I don't have a lot of confidence that they will show much.

Thankfully, the tracking dogs were quickly on the scene. They picked up plenty of scent of the kids in the house and on the property but none leaving the property except at the end of the driveway, That means they almost certainly did not wander off into the woods or the dogs would have picked up scent at *least* leaving the property where their scent was plentiful. Since the end of the driveway was probably where they got on the school bus (but not that day), odds are very high the children never wandered into the woods.

What happened to Jack and Lily?

 

[LadyL]

My takeaway was after the initial searches the day of disappearance, and in the immediate days afterward, DM thought it was a waste of time/resources continuing to search that location, since they didn't find the kids.

I seem to recall some folks here pretty much saying the same thing - with all those searchers and them not finding the kids, folks suspected they weren't actually in the woods in the first place (or never were). Maybe once the searches happened, DM began thinking the same thing, and started thinking of specific people he might be suspicious of? Total speculation based on his comments & based on presumption of his innocence.

jmo

didn't he and M say in the very beginning they believed the kids to have been abducted?

 

[musicaljoke]

Thankfully, the tracking dogs were quickly on the scene. They picked up plenty of scent of the kids in the house and on the property but none leaving the property except at the end of the driveway, That means they almost certainly did not wander off into the woods or the dogs would have picked up scent at *least* leaving the property where their scent was plentiful. Since the end of the driveway was probably where they got on the school bus (but not that day), odds are very high the children never wandered into the woods.

What happened to Jack and Lily?

The fact that dogs didn't pick up their scent doesn't exclude the fact that the kids may be in the woods. It only means that the dogs didn't pick up their scent.

SAR dogs accuracy is about 76%.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

What you’re describing seems a situation of LE coming up with a theory that criminality was involved and then hoping to find evidence to support a conviction. But that’s opposite of how the RCMP claim they conduct their investigations, by following the evidence to wherever it takes them. So I get the impression if evidence was found with criminal implications, this would already have become a criminal investigation in order to further a ‘slam dunk’.

However I admit it’s utterly mystifying how two children could disappear without any criminality involved, given the cadaver dogs were unsuccessful. I’d be very curious how the RCMP think that could be possible.
JMO

Sorry no, not what I was trying to say....,

Not LE "coming up", hoping for or creating a theory - gathering enough evidence to bring to a judge/lawyers to get support solid charges.

They might have evidence already for all we know and brought to a lawyer, but lawyers might want more so there's no wiggle room for a defence to poke holes through.

They don't want a half-baked case IF murder is involved. I think many crimes in Canada go cold because LE might have "some" evidence but not "enough" evidence to persecute in a court of law. MOO JMO

 

[OneLove]

The fact that dogs didn't pick up their scent doesn't exclude the fact that the kids may be in the woods. It only means that the dogs didn't pick up their scent.

SAR dogs accuracy is about 76%.

It would be highly unlikely, though, that they picked up plenty of scent right there in the yard but did not track one iota of scent leading from there into the woods, not even 5 feet and then losing the scent due to.... whatever. Not tracking even a bit into the edge of the woods is very telling.

 

[Serononin]

He really believes that the children never went into the woods, so logically, he would think that searching the woods is a waste of money and that resources should be directed into what he seems to believe was a kidnapping.

For all we know, he might be right, although LE has said there was no evidence of kidnapping.

Wandering into the woods is still the most likely reason and the simplest explanation for their disappearance. The woods in that area is absolutely unforgiving. If that was the way they went, it's possible that the children will never be found.

I'd be very interested to know what his theory is. At the very beginning, it seemed like both parents thought the children might have been abducted (describing them as the kind of kids who would "talk to anyone", and asking for an Amber Alert). DM seems to still think something along those lines, I wonder if MBM does as well

 

[OneLove]

They don't want a half-baked case IF murder is involved. I think many crimes in Canada go cold because LE might have "some" evidence but not "enough" evidence to persecute in a court of law. MOO JMO

And many times, what *seems* to go cold or dormant is actually very active time of surveillance, building a wider net of surveillance, and sometimes developing and insertion of undercovers. Investigations can be like icebergs; you only see what's on the surface. i tracked a 2 year long "net" of surveillance that remained well under radar and eventually busted 14 major players, including our town's one and only pediatric orthodontist. That investigation was a finely tuned work of art.

 

[MistyWaters]

Unfortunately, the helicopters, heat sensor cameras and drones were of limited value because of the dense tree canopy. I wish that the pics turn out to be helpful, but I don't have a lot of confidence that they will show much.

When I imagine a swamp or slough in Canada it doesn’t support a dense grove of trees. Thats why I’m not sure what the G and M writer is referring to however swamps could more easily be searched by the air.

Google:

 

[Ontario Mom]

didn't he and M say in the very beginning they believed the kids to have been abducted?

I don't recall his initial comments but she definitely pleaded with LE to put out an Amber alert.

All along LE have said there isn't any evidence of an abduction. But the more I think about it, realistically I have to wonder, what evidence would there be? No one saw anything, no surveillance cams to capture anything, no strange tire marks in the drive way. According to all the adults there, they were there inside the trailer, then outside playing, then... gone.

More and more it does sound like it's a real possibility someone drove up, lured the kids into a vehicle, and drove away.

jmo

 

[FromGermany1]

I don't recall his initial comments but she definitely pleaded with LE to put out an Amber alert.

All along LE have said there isn't any evidence of an abduction. But the more I think about it, realistically I have to wonder, what evidence would there be? No one saw anything, no surveillance cams to capture anything, no strange tire marks in the drive way. According to all the adults there, they were there inside the trailer, then outside playing, then... gone.

More and more it does sound like it's a real possibility someone drove up, lured the kids into a vehicle, and drove away.

jmo

bbm
IMO, doesn't make sense, if a "5speed-car" was driving there several times the night before like the neighbor said. Was it identified by LE and cleared? Afaik, we don't know. But would be interesting to know ....

 

[FromGermany1]

I can't say, why I don't have the feeling, that Lilly and Jack are deceased. No, I think, they are alive under what circumstances ever (and I don't think of the best ones, sadly). Just, like I think of the little boy William in AUS - he might be alive somewhere in the world, but not, where I would have wished him to be.

 

[FromGermany1]

He really believes that the children never went into the woods, so logically, he would think that searching the woods is a waste of money and that resources should be directed into what he seems to believe was a kidnapping.

For all we know, he might be right, although LE has said there was no evidence of kidnapping.

Wandering into the woods is still the most likely reason and the simplest explanation for their disappearance. The woods in that area is absolutely unforgiving. If that was the way they went, it's possible that the children will never be found.

He, DM, must have a feeling, that he in a cunning manner was counted out by MBM and her family. MOO So his logic says him, the children are not "in the woods", but somewhere other probably and quite alive.

 

[musicaljoke]

It would be highly unlikely, though, that they picked up plenty of scent right there in the yard but did not track one iota of scent leading from there into the woods, not even 5 feet and then losing the scent due to.... whatever. Not tracking even a bit into the edge of the woods is very telling.

Perhaps some people have a misunderstanding of what the dogs do, and where they searched in the bush. Neither the Search and Rescue dogs, not the Cadaver dogs are set free to do a grid search of the entire forest. Rather, they search specific areas where the children likely might have gone. There are huge areas that have never been searched by dogs. There could be several reasons why they failed to track the children back in May. The possibility that the children are in the woods has not been eliminated.

The children regularly played in their fort in the woods behind the house. You can find a picture of their fort in the CBC interview with the grandmother at minute 2:48 in the link below. If you see that picture, it might change your mind about the kids being in the woods.

"The teams, specially trained in detecting human remains, searched at the property from which the children went missing, along the pipeline and intersecting trails, and in an area where a pink blanket was previously found — all locations where there was the highest probability of finding the children. However, the teams did not locate any remains.”

"The “dogs are highly trained to detect and indicate the scent of human remains,” Staff.-Sgt. Stephen Pike, who trains the animals, said in the release. “If the dogs did not alert their handlers, it suggests the dogs were never in the presence of human remains odour.” That does not “definitively rule out the presence of remains in the areas that were searched,” Pike said.

Where are Jack and Lilly? Cadaver dogs fail to detect traces of missing N.S. children

RCMP teams trained in detecting human remains searched at the home where Jack and Lilly Sullivan went missing and in the surrounding area

nationalpost.com

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Wasn’t it the Globe and Mail that described the home to be surrounded by swamps? Google maps doesn’t reveal any shallow bodies of water in the area, other than Lansdowne Lake which was searched by divers.

So I wonder what the writer’s definition of ‘swamp’ is? It could be anything from like the Florida Everglades to common bog or muskeg, which really is only marshy soft ground. I’d be very surprised if the RCMP overlooked any wet areas because it would be opportune for leaving footprints.

We do know they utilized helicopters with heat sensor cameras and drones that had capability of small image recognition taking 70,000 pics. IMO their search was as thorough as possible benefited by various modern devices.
JMO

I think there are a few small bodies of water close by, if I’m reading the maps right.

(Google map image.) Highlighted in blue is what looks like a stream that runs into a small body of water.

I’ve read that the blanket was found on Lansdowne Road or Lansdowne Station Road. If the truth is the latter, it was found close to that stream.

There’s also a stream that intersects with the pipeline trail where the boot prints were found.

(Google map image.) The blue highlights what looks like a stream that runs into a small body of water.

If the step-grandmother was planning to place a pool at the home, maybe they had the idea to go find fish or frogs for it. (Not understanding that the pool would be ready probably in June.)

When I was six I went missing for over a hour from the school grounds during recess. I wanted to go home to get something for show and tell. That’s why I now have it stuck in my head that if we knew what possibly motivated them to leave the property that morning, it might lead us to where they are.

Six year old me was excited about talking about my toys, and that overrode doing something against the rules. I also had no sense of how quickly time was going by, or that people would be concerned.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think there are a few small bodies of water close by, if I’m reading the maps right.
View attachment 619613
(Google map image.) Highlighted in blue is what looks like a stream that runs into a small body of water.

I’ve read that the blanket was found on Lansdowne Road or Lansdowne Station Road. If the truth is the latter, it was found close to that stream.

There’s also a stream that intersects with the pipeline trail where the boot prints were found. View attachment 619614
(Google map image.) The blue highlights what looks like a stream that runs into a small body of water.

If the step-grandmother was planning to place a pool at the home, maybe they had the idea to go find fish or frogs for it. (Not understanding that the pool would be ready probably in June.)

When I was six I went missing for over a hour from the school grounds during recess. I wanted to go home to get something for show and tell. That’s why I now have it stuck in my head that if we knew what possibly motivated them to leave the property that morning, it might lead us to where they are.

Six year old me was excited about talking about my toys, and that overrode doing something against the rules. I also had no sense of how quickly time was going by, or that people would be concerned.

DM also stated he was waist deep in water searching at the onset. But my initial point was I’d be really surprised if any areas with water were ignored entirely by SAR. If the searchers did not venture into any, the use of drones and heat detection cameras ought to have been helpful in that regard.

ETA On the topic of two lost children, I think it’s highly unusual that at least one wasn’t found. If one was going off on some kind of adventurous mission wouldn’t it be likely after a time the other one decided it was no fun considering the terrain, they were going back? Both were too small to carry or drag the unwilling participant along on their journey. Yet if there bodies are still to be found it seems as if they stayed together. Parents are better at predicting behavior, I wonder if this was typical? According to the step-grandma Jack was strong-willed and just refuse to walk after he got tired.
JMO