CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #7

[Lalalacasbah]

Yes, of course Daniel would have noticed the kids missing. What I'm saying is something happened at 2:35 while they were out and about. I'm guessing an interaction, a clue of sorts, not an abduction.

I like your train of thought on this. I think definitely a possible link. Now just have to figure out what that is!

 

[musicaljoke]

Maybe not kidnap then and there, maybe lingering, watching or 'listening' to hear what they were up to or where they were going.

Was the friend from work DM chatted to with anyone else there? Who knows, maybe DM said to his buddy they've been out and about all day and they're exhausted and heading home to crash... maybe someone heard that and knew everyone was tired and might be in a deep sleep?

Sorry I can't remember everything the documents said was talked about. I'm hypothesizing/theorizing and speculating MOO

So far, we haven't heard of any evidence that would support this theory. If someone was waiting for the kids, they likely would be lurking around when the school bus was anticipated in the morning. Even that is not a sure thing, because very young children have to wait for the bus with a parent present. A random buddy who was met in the parking lot the day before would not know that the kids were staying home from school and heading outside to play the following morning while their parents slept. That all seems to be somewhat spontaneous and not a pattern of behaviour that a kidnapper could rely upon.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

So far, we haven't heard of any evidence that would support this theory. If someone was waiting for the kids, they likely would be lurking around when the school bus was anticipated in the morning. Even that is not a sure thing, because very young children have to wait for the bus with a parent present. A random buddy who was met in the parking lot the day before would not know that the kids were staying home from school and heading outside to play the following morning while their parents slept. That all seems to be somewhat spontaneous and not a pattern of behaviour that a kidnapper could rely upon.

No we haven't heard any evidence of this nor would we. I understand I'm one of the few on the thread open to an abduction/SO possibility or scenario so I'm only throwing it out there. I think good to be open minded and brainstorm.

Many sex offenders (predators) do just that - lurk, watch and wait... get to know families comings and goings and habits, especially if fixated on one of the children. I imagine there are lots of ex-offenders/SOs on parole in those areas (like many places in Canada) and parole does get broken.

I am not necessarily even saying some random acquaintance of DM's friend (although possible) - could be someone around that Dollarama, another customer, an employee, etc.

Anecdotal but prime example: a girl I knew in middle school got a ride home with her friend's mom's boyfriend and 'his friend' who she had never seen before. Two adults driving kids in the back home from school. She got dropped off at home. A few days or a week later (some time had passed and that was the creepy part that he remembered her house), the 'friend' of the BF remembered where she lived and attempted breaking into her downstairs bedroom to assault her. Turns out he was an ex-con on parole!

So these things happen through associations at times is what I was trying to say... and NOBODY knows who has a previous record as SOs records aren't public. People could invite folks over for a bbq from down the road and you would never know they have a history. MOO JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

So far, we haven't heard of any evidence that would support this theory. If someone was waiting for the kids, they likely would be lurking around when the school bus was anticipated in the morning. Even that is not a sure thing, because very young children have to wait for the bus with a parent present. A random buddy who was met in the parking lot the day before would not know that the kids were staying home from school and heading outside to play the following morning while their parents slept. That all seems to be somewhat spontaneous and not a pattern of behaviour that a kidnapper could rely upon.

This might’ve been exactly the reason the RCMP subpoenaed CCTV from the schoolbus, to determine if a vehicle appeared to be lurking about in an attempt to learn what time the children got on and off the bus each day. I’m very curious about the timeline that morning of May 2nd, the (redacted) time they were noticed to be missing in relation to the schoolbus schedule.

I don’t think we know if MBM or DM always accompanied them on and off the bus? I don’t recall it ever being said. If a parent wasn’t there, surely the schoolbus wouldn’t just drive on by, leaving the children behind?
JMO

 

[Bigditch]

Maybe not kidnap then and there, maybe lingering, watching or 'listening' to hear what they were up to or where they were going.

Was the friend from work DM chatted to with anyone else there? Who knows, maybe DM said to his buddy they've been out and about all day and they're exhausted and heading home to crash... maybe someone heard that and knew everyone was tired and might be in a deep sleep?

Sorry I can't remember everything the documents said was talked about. I'm hypothesizing/theorizing and speculating MOO

Thank you. That is what I was hinting at.

 

[Bigditch]

No we haven't heard any evidence of this nor would we. I understand I'm one of the few on the thread open to an abduction/SO possibility or scenario so I'm only throwing it out there. I think good to be open minded and brainstorm.

Many sex offenders (predators) do just that - lurk, watch and wait... get to know families comings and goings and habits, especially if fixated on one of the children. I imagine there are lots of ex-offenders/SOs on parole in those areas (like many places in Canada) and parole does get broken.

I am not necessarily even saying some random acquaintance of DM's friend (although possible) - could be someone around that Dollarama, another customer, an employee, etc.

Anecdotal but prime example: a girl I knew in middle school got a ride home with her friend's mom's boyfriend and 'his friend' who she had never seen before. Two adults driving kids in the back home from school. She got dropped off at home. A few days or a week later (some time had passed and that was the creepy part that he remembered her house), the 'friend' of the BF remembered where she lived and attempted breaking into her downstairs bedroom to assault her. Turns out he was an ex-con on parole!

So these things happen through associations at times is what I was trying to say... and NOBODY knows who has a previous record as SOs records aren't public. People could invite folks over for a bbq from down the road and you would never know they have a history. MOO JMO

Well said.

 

[musicaljoke]

This might’ve been exactly the reason the RCMP subpoenaed CCTV from the schoolbus, to determine if a vehicle appeared to be lurking about in an attempt to learn what time the children got on and off the bus each day. I’m very curious about the timeline that morning of May 2nd, the (redacted) time they were noticed to be missing in relation to the schoolbus schedule.

I don’t think we know if MBM or DM always accompanied them on and off the bus? I don’t recall it ever being said. If a parent wasn’t there, surely the schoolbus wouldn’t just drive on by, leaving the children behind?
JMO

Yes, I agree that the police would have checked the bus CCTV looking for a vehicle or suspicious person along the road. From what we have been lead to believe, there were no suspicious vehicles, nor people who might have abducted the children.

I don't know how school bus drivers manage the problem of getting kids on the bus when there are no parents present. I suspect it's an issue that doesn't happen very often. But, I know that they don't let wee ones off the bus if there are no parents present. Of course, all this is moot because the kids weren't going to school the morning that they disappeared.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I definitely wondered about that when I read about the search for Darius McDougall and how that was adapted with his autism in mind

Yes, if under the definition of "vulnerable children", the RCMP considered Lilly and Jack's "potential autism", which IIRC, both their custodial parents referred to.

IIRC, altough potential autism was yet "undiagnosed" in Lilly and Jack, they were about to be assessed for it or other factors in their home lives, which caused CPS (or other acronym in Canada, CPI?) to have their concerns documented before they disappeared in two memos after the home visit from previous months that same year, 1 issued on the day they went missing, and 2 two weeks later.

JMO

 

[Mauig’ma]

Nobody is assuming nor is it possible to diagnose anything by the contents of media stories. However it was both of the parents who mentioned the possibility of undiagnosed autism and that’s why the topic arises. The suggestion by each of them obviously came from somewhere and iirc according to DM, testing was to be undertaken later that same month of May.

If indeed an autistic diagnosis had been confirmed, it likely would’ve significantly impacted the general nature of the search for the two children, as was noted during a recent search for another missing child in B.C. who was known to be autistic. For example that search avoided the use of bright lights.

I’m sorry but I feel like a lot of people throw around the word autistic nowadays. Especially if there’s an issue with kids being overly active. No one diagnosed either of them with autism. Why are we assuming they have it? There’s such a wide spectrum anyway even if they did have it. Moo

 

[Slebby]

I’m sorry but I feel like a lot of people throw around the word autistic nowadays. Especially if there’s an issue with kids being overly active. No one diagnosed either of them with autism. Why are we assuming they have it? There’s such a wide spectrum anyway even if they did have it. Moo

You are exactly right. There’s a saying in the autism world, if you’ve seen one person with autism, you’ve seen one person with autism.
IMHO

 

[Unalienable Rights]

N.S. missing kids: Volunteers to focus search on riverbanks for Lilly and Jack | Globalnews.ca

The renewed search in Pictou County is being led by the Ontario-based not-for-profit group, Bring Me Home. Lilly and Jack have been missing for over six months.

globalnews.ca

Dozens of volunteers will be out searching this weekend for Lilly and Jack Sullivan in hopes they’ll find clues about the Nova Scotia siblings more than six months after their disappearance.

The renewed search in Pictou County is being led by the Ontario-based not-for-profit group, Bring Me Home.

The group’s co-founder, Nick Oldrieve, says the renewed efforts will focus on the banks along the Middle River.

*****
Oldrieve says about 40 local residents are volunteering with the search this Saturday, covering a vast area directly across the road from the children’s home. The search will begin at dawn and last until dusk, with a possibility of carrying into Sunday if necessary.

*****

 

[MistyWaters]

I’m sorry but I feel like a lot of people throw around the word autistic nowadays. Especially if there’s an issue with kids being overly active. No one diagnosed either of them with autism. Why are we assuming they have it? There’s such a wide spectrum anyway even if they did have it. Moo

I haven’t noticed anybody here assuming the children are autistic. Even the parents used the word ‘undiagnosed’. I’m sorry but you must’ve misread.

 

[su5ie]

N.S. missing kids: Volunteers to focus search on riverbanks for Lilly and Jack | Globalnews.ca

The renewed search in Pictou County is being led by the Ontario-based not-for-profit group, Bring Me Home. Lilly and Jack have been missing for over six months.

globalnews.ca

Dozens of volunteers will be out searching this weekend for Lilly and Jack Sullivan in hopes they’ll find clues about the Nova Scotia siblings more than six months after their disappearance.

The renewed search in Pictou County is being led by the Ontario-based not-for-profit group, Bring Me Home.

The group’s co-founder, Nick Oldrieve, says the renewed efforts will focus on the banks along the Middle River.

*****
Oldrieve says about 40 local residents are volunteering with the search this Saturday, covering a vast area directly across the road from the children’s home. The search will begin at dawn and last until dusk, with a possibility of carrying into Sunday if necessary.

*****

I've not heard anything about a river before . We have heard of lakes and bodies of water .

I and other posters had mentioned before that prehaps janie raking for a pool triggered a want in the children to go swimming.

Please God this search turns up something, I believe praying is the equivalent of hoping really hard well tonight and over the weekend I will be doing both . The children need to be given a proper resting place and the family need to go back to living a life of privacy and closure . It will also hopefully give a reason or a how

 

[MistyWaters]

I've not heard anything about a river before . We have heard of lakes and bodies of water .

I and other posters had mentioned before that prehaps janie raking for a pool triggered a want in the children to go swimming.

Please God this search turns up something, I believe praying is the equivalent of hoping really hard well tonight and over the weekend I will be doing both . The children need to be given a proper resting place and the family need to go back to living a life of privacy and closure . It will also hopefully give a reason or a how

I hadn’t heard of this river before either. Oddly Glengarry Station, the location of it, and Lansdowne Station are close but not that close for Middle River to be on the other side of the road from the Martell residence. But I trust the search group has vetted their information and like you, I hope the search is successful and the family can put their lives back together, as best they can.

Middle River of Pictou - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Bigditch]

I've not heard anything about a river before . We have heard of lakes and bodies of water .

I and other posters had mentioned before that prehaps janie raking for a pool triggered a want in the children to go swimming.

Please God this search turns up something, I believe praying is the equivalent of hoping really hard well tonight and over the weekend I will be doing both . The children need to be given a proper resting place and the family need to go back to living a life of privacy and closure . It will also hopefully give a reason or a how

Trying to map it out, not easy.

 

[musicaljoke]

N.S. missing kids: Volunteers to focus search on riverbanks for Lilly and Jack | Globalnews.ca

The renewed search in Pictou County is being led by the Ontario-based not-for-profit group, Bring Me Home. Lilly and Jack have been missing for over six months.

globalnews.ca

Dozens of volunteers will be out searching this weekend for Lilly and Jack Sullivan in hopes they’ll find clues about the Nova Scotia siblings more than six months after their disappearance.

The renewed search in Pictou County is being led by the Ontario-based not-for-profit group, Bring Me Home.

The group’s co-founder, Nick Oldrieve, says the renewed efforts will focus on the banks along the Middle River.

*****
Oldrieve says about 40 local residents are volunteering with the search this Saturday, covering a vast area directly across the road from the children’s home. The search will begin at dawn and last until dusk, with a possibility of carrying into Sunday if necessary.

*****

That is wonderful, but gosh, I wish there were way more than just 40 people searching.

 

[BCSleuth]

[...]

*****
Oldrieve says about 40 local residents are volunteering with the search this Saturday, covering a vast area directly across the road from the children’s home. The search will begin at dawn and last until dusk, with a possibility of carrying into Sunday if necessary.

*****

Well that's interesting. The beginnings of the Middle River of Pictou runs not far at all from the end of their driveway. Just 150m/500ft away, across the street and into the woods.

Man, we loved to play in the creeks when we were young.

I find it super odd that DM is so convinced the children are not in the woods.

 

[musicaljoke]

Well that's interesting. The beginnings of the Middle River of Pictou runs not far from their driveway at all. Just 150m/500ft away into the woods.

Man, we loved to play in the creeks when we were young.

I find it super odd that DM is so convinced the children are not in the woods.

Do you recall anything being said about this river before now?

I understand DM believing that the kids are not in the woods. If they were, they could no longer be alive. But if they've been kidnapped, then there is still hope.

 

[BCSleuth]

Do you recall anything being said about this river before now?

[...]

Nothing has been said about it specifically. The RCMP searched waterways, though, I believe. They almost certainly searched the river.

According to the above linked article:

He points out that water levels have changed in recent months and that’s why he believes certain areas need to be revisited.

“If they were underwater at the time of the initial searching along that river, they would have surfaced and they would’ve gone downriver a bit,” he said.

 

[MistyWaters]

Well that's interesting. The beginnings of the Middle River of Pictou runs not far at all from the end of their driveway. Just 150m/500ft away, across the street and into the woods.

Man, we loved to play in the creeks when we were young.

I find it super odd that DM is so convinced the children are not in the woods.

So what’s with Dryden Lake? I think google map isn’t quite correct because the location it shows for Middle River of Pictou isn’t starting from Dryden Lake. Google maps has it starting from the middle of nowhere! But since the headwaters of a river almost always have to begin from a water source, if it’s an outflow from a small lake that would make sense. However Dryden Lake looks to be about 5km from the Martell home. I just hope the searchers have accurate maps because this is difficult to make sense of!
JMO

Middle River of Pictou Facts for Kids

Middle River of Pictou facts for kids

kids.kiddle.co

“It starts at Dryden Lake near Glengarry Station”