CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #7

[Dreamcherry]

On Wednesday, April 30, all five, including Jack and Lilly's baby sister, went to Brooks-Murray's grandmother's house to do laundry at 2 p.m.

More than an hour later, Brooks-Murray took the baby with her to get a licence plate for her car while Martell stayed at her grandmother's house with Jack and Lilly.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova...er-suggests-no-criminal-involvement-1.7615551

I recall one interview stating DM stayed in the car during the laundry fest. But if that happened, whose car did MBM take to go get the plates for her car mid-laundry errand. I say mid laundry errand because no way did six bags of laundry get washed and dried in the short period (more than an hour later but presumably less than two hours) after arrival at grandma's and before leaving to go get license plates. And whose car was DM sitting in (with or without Jack and Lilly) while MBM and baby were gone on that plate errand? Because l feel like if he and the kids stayed and MBM and baby left, DM and kids were in grandma's house?

Ok, this makes even less sense. I have all the same questions you have. I'm going to scan the court docs for whatever laundry info I can find.

-Janie says the kids were out of school Wed b/c of an in-service day. They went to MBM's grandmother's house to do laundry.
-MBM doesn't remember what they did Wed, although she does later say that the kids wore their clothes to bed b/c laundry still not put away. So she remembers doing laundry, but not that it was Wed I guess. Also, what did they wear to bed Wed night then? Had they been wearing the same clothes all week, day and night?!
-Wed, according to Google timeline: they left the house at 12:51 pm, got $20 of gas, arrived at gma's 2:01 pm. At 3:18 pm she went with Meadow to get plates for her car, DM and kids stayed at gma's. Then they went to get gas again and a vape for DM (no time noted). At 7:54 they went to Wal-mart all together to get groceries, dropped off bank card at gma's at 9:19 pm, got home at 10:19 pm.
-Daniel was also confused about the day they went to Truro to do laundry. He thought they went Thursday.
-OK! So they went somewhere Thurs, for MBM (it's redacted as personal info) and that's when DM and the kids stayed in the car and waited, according to DM. After that is when they went to Dollarama and Lawton's. So they didn't stay in the car waiting for laundry, it was something else. That makes way more sense to me!

-

 

[tlcya]

Ok, this makes even less sense. I have all the same questions you have. I'm going to scan the court docs for whatever laundry info I can find.

-Janie says the kids were out of school Wed b/c of an in-service day. They went to MBM's grandmother's house to do laundry.
-MBM doesn't remember what they did Wed, although she does later say that the kids wore their clothes to bed b/c laundry still not put away. So she remembers doing laundry, but not that it was Wed I guess. Also, what did they wear to bed Wed night then? Had they been wearing the same clothes all week, day and night?!
-Wed, according to Google timeline: they left the house at 12:51 pm, got $20 of gas, arrived at gma's 2:01 pm. At 3:18 pm she went with Meadow to get plates for her car, DM and kids stayed at gma's. Then they went to get gas again and a vape for DM (no time noted). At 7:54 they went to Wal-mart all together to get groceries, dropped off bank card at gma's at 9:19 pm, got home at 10:19 pm.
-Daniel was also confused about the day they went to Truro to do laundry. He thought they went Thursday.
-OK! So they went somewhere Thurs, for MBM (it's redacted as personal info) and that's when DM and the kids stayed in the car and waited, according to DM. After that is when they went to Dollarama and Lawton's. So they didn't stay in the car waiting for laundry, it was something else. That makes way more sense to me!

-

TY for tracking that down, yes, makes more sense that way. Dm waited in the car with kids as MBM handled whatever that redacted/[personal appointment was on Thursday.

 

[Serononin]

Ok, this makes even less sense. I have all the same questions you have. I'm going to scan the court docs for whatever laundry info I can find.

-Janie says the kids were out of school Wed b/c of an in-service day. They went to MBM's grandmother's house to do laundry.
-MBM doesn't remember what they did Wed, although she does later say that the kids wore their clothes to bed b/c laundry still not put away. So she remembers doing laundry, but not that it was Wed I guess. Also, what did they wear to bed Wed night then? Had they been wearing the same clothes all week, day and night?!
-Wed, according to Google timeline: they left the house at 12:51 pm, got $20 of gas, arrived at gma's 2:01 pm. At 3:18 pm she went with Meadow to get plates for her car, DM and kids stayed at gma's. Then they went to get gas again and a vape for DM (no time noted). At 7:54 they went to Wal-mart all together to get groceries, dropped off bank card at gma's at 9:19 pm, got home at 10:19 pm.
-Daniel was also confused about the day they went to Truro to do laundry. He thought they went Thursday.
-OK! So they went somewhere Thurs, for MBM (it's redacted as personal info) and that's when DM and the kids stayed in the car and waited, according to DM. After that is when they went to Dollarama and Lawton's. So they didn't stay in the car waiting for laundry, it was something else. That makes way more sense to me!

-

A bit off-topic, but it seems like the kids went to bed pretty late on both the Wednesday and Thursday. Makes me wonder how often they did that, and whether lack of sleep was contributing to their apparent behaviour issues at all

 

[Sarahlou]

It's about time someone spoke up about what they know. I'm certain a few people know what happened to these poor kids.

 

[Fabled Automatic]

It's about time someone spoke up about what they know. I'm certain a few people know what happened to these poor kids.

I'm guessing the RCMP knows a lot more than they're letting on, but just don't have enough to make an arrest. Maybe I'm just being hopeful though.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I'm guessing the RCMP knows a lot more than they're letting on, but just don't have enough to make an arrest. Maybe I'm just being hopeful though.

LE always know more than they ever release to the public.

But they also always have to wait until they have enough for an arrest warrant. Frustrating for the public for sure but I can only imagine it's even more frustrating for them, knowing what they know.

jmo

 

[Bigditch]

I'm guessing the RCMP knows a lot more than they're letting on, but just don't have enough to make an arrest. Maybe I'm just being hopeful though.

Hope is all we've got.

 

[su5ie]

We really don't know if the rcmp know any more than what's in the redacted documents. For sure they have said that there is theories and investigative avenues that they don't want to divulge

But a theory is just a thought ,an opinion, a hypothesis.

Investigative avenues may lead to nothing and many have not otherwise I'm sure we would be seeing some form of action

They have stated that the investigation is not criminal in nature as of July so theories and the investigation has led to a dead end up to that date

We know they threw everything in their power at the investigation and we know they found no definitive evidence of the kids outside of the property and witnesses who came forward appear to have led to a dead end

Behaviourally the actions of the adults both on the morning and afterwards speak to the assumption that the family believe the wandering theory and the children perished in the forest and they appear to have accepted that and moved on as no one seems to be publicly anyway trying to keep the case in public consciousness and we see from the bring them home search that both the family and the rcmp didn't involve themselves.

So what does that tell us ? Yes I'm sure the rcmp have a team still looking into it but with no lead where does the investigation go ? Will the silence continue? So spring comes ,what happens then another search ? Will we get an update on the thermal imagery ?

I'm surprised not even a teacher or neighbour has given an interview to the media to say they have been searching or just to say how missed the kids are . It would seem ranks on all sides have firmly shut the door on any insight .

I really thought the kids would be found by now or there would be some sort of breakthrough. Unless someone breaks their silence I feel no light will be shed on what has happened.

Moo imo only

 

[Sjöberg]

The problem with this case is that it is really hard to rule anything out and also really hard to rule anything in. Two young siblings bored one morning can get themselves just about into anything - resulting in also just about anything. And then there is lack of any evidence, other than a probable boot print in the woods. No crime scene, no method of causing death, no digital evidence on the devices, no disposal vehicle, no disposal site - nada for neither kid.

I am not saying the kids were not harmed by anyone, but with the evidence we have, I see nothing confirming that (and the boot print confirming that some little kid was walking in the woods). I understand that keywords like "absent from school" and "CPS" and "trailer" and "stepfather" frame our mind a certain way, as does the setting (being a crime forum), but the school absence turned out to be a nothingburger (seen on CCTV long after the absence started and let's face it, little kids are always ill during the season) and being poor is actually not a crime. So I can still see this going any way, really.

A fun little read about some cognitive biases: What are the Cognitive Biases in Incident Investigations

 

[su5ie]

The problem with this case is that it is really hard to rule anything out and also really hard to rule anything in. Two young siblings bored one morning can get themselves just about into anything - resulting in also just about anything. And then there is lack of any evidence, other than a probable boot print in the woods. No crime scene, no method of causing death, no digital evidence on the devices, no disposal vehicle, no disposal site - nada for neither kid.

I am not saying the kids were not harmed by anyone, but with the evidence we have, I see nothing confirming that (and the boot print confirming that some little kid was walking in the woods). I understand that keywords like "absent from school" and "CPS" and "trailer" and "stepfather" frame our mind a certain way, as does the setting (being a crime forum), but the school absence turned out to be a nothingburger (seen on CCTV long after the absence started and let's face it, little kids are always ill during the season) and being poor is actually not a crime. So I can still see this going any way, really.

A fun little read about some cognitive biases: What are the Cognitive Biases in Incident Investigations

I understand cognitive biases and as you pointed out being on a crime forum your mind becomes attuned to a guilty until proven innocent hypothesis and suspicion is a stable at breakfast

I personally don't feel that financial circumstances is prominent as a " blame factor " and judgement of their living environment may have happened in the beginning but it certainly hasn't featured as time went on

I think the keywords that raise the suspicion meter are drugs , silence , black eyes , DV and of course cps


Absence from school as you have stated is long since explained and while we have seen many kids in blended families suffering the consequences of that mix , many hold the belief that DM is giving a voice to the missing children and appearing to be the most anxious to find them

One would have to be totally oblivious to not see unusual factors to this case , two siblings missing without a trace and without a forensic trail is a standout on its own , as old as the Australian Beaumont case is , even in that there was some clue in days when forensics was nothing more than fingerprinting and blood type sampling . In L&Js case it would seem like they evaporated into oxygen molecules.

The other unusual factor is silence from mum and others and the leaving of the area the next day and never to return to aid in searches

That's at a minimum of why this case more than others may create a perfect storm of suspicion and doubt . Bearing in mind no poi has been named and no evidence of a crime or a wandering has been conclusive

So back to your first paragraph, yes there is nada, nothing , zilch on not one kid but two that has to be exceptional in the investigative sphere

 

[Ontario Mom]

I think it's important to remember that the mom's lack of communication with the media/public does not automatically mean she's also out of communication with RCMP.

jmo

 

[PezCandy]

I only read that stayed on the car. Is there a link to reports that children were in the car the whole time? I’ve never seen that but so little has happened lately I may have forgotten.

I've only seen that it was DM in the car, but others said that he was in the car with the kids. So your guess is as good as mine! All I've seen in this case is a bunch of conflicting info honestly.

 

[PezCandy]

This is how I feel, say the wandering story is true, then it has a lot to do with negligence. I feel like these kids have been neglected for some time. I'm not even talking just about the financial aspect. Like if these kids slipped out of the house, DM/MBM heard & did nothing to crawl out of bed to get them or check on them until it was too late. Was it reports from school staff who said the kids were oftentimes grubby/unclean? The lack of sleep these kids got being up as late as they were definitely can cause behavior issues. Go to school with lack of sleep is going to make many children act out, especially young ones. These children had absolutely no structure. Not an drop of normalcy. Add what dv must have been going on in that house for the kids to oftentimes have marks on them. Their behaviors stemmed from what they were going through. So how I see it if they often went outside by themselves for long periods of time without supervision or the parents crawling out of bed to even check on them, this was not the first time, heck the way it was brought up about mbm having to get out of bed to feed them & turn on the tv was made to sound like an inconvenience. Of course imo moo jmo
UGH sorry for the rant guys, this case just grinds my gears so darn much. Especially with it being the holidays.

 

[BCSleuth]

Well this is encouraging...

“I’ve got 25 years on (the force) and I absolutely expect to solve this before I retire,” Staff-Sgt. Rob McCamon, the officer in charge of Major Crime and Behavioural Sciences in Nova Scotia, said in an interview.

“This file will get solved long before that.”

Makes you wonder whether they know something or not, though. Facts or just optimism?

Source: What happened to Jack and Lilly? Grandmother says she's lost hope missing N.S. kids are still alive

 

[flowershop]

I would like to think despite whatever MBM answered with regard to the items that RCMP bagged all items. Their job as investigators is to consider all possibilities and not close doors to potential leads.

From a previously linked article re the search by bring them home charity. It stated mbm was asked by the rcmp if items found were belonging to the kids or items of interest. She replied no .so therefore the items were considered useless to the investigation

Firstly is it common for this to happen ,I would have thought that any items gathered would be bagged up and independently tested to see if they had relevance or not . I found it strange that a disappearance considered suspicious ( quoted by rcmp in articles previously linked and recalled from memory ) would allow a person present on the morning to verify items by photograph to see if evidence is relevant or not??

Secondly if they are not being tested or bagged up how would investigators know if they were discarded by a potential perp unknown to the children. ? Or if they had stains or dna belonging to the children or a potential perp invisible to the naked eye .

It just seemed odd considering there is no leads in the investigation for any theory to be plausible atm

 

[su5ie]

I would like to think despite whatever MBM answered with regard to the items that RCMP bagged all items. Their job as investigators is to consider all possibilities and not close doors to potential leads.

I would like to think that too

 

[su5ie]

Well this is encouraging...



Makes you wonder whether they know something or not, though. Facts or just optimism?

Source: What happened to Jack and Lilly? Grandmother says she's lost hope missing N.S. kids are still alive

Thank you so much for posting, brilliant article and update

 

[Sarahlou]

Well this is encouraging...



Makes you wonder whether they know something or not, though. Facts or just optimism?

Source: What happened to Jack and Lilly? Grandmother says she's lost hope missing N.S. kids are still alive

Interesting comments from Belynda too. I still have the same suspicions as I did at the start, even more so after reading that.

 

[Bigditch]

Thank you so much for posting, brilliant article and update

I cannot access the article. Can someone sum it up for me. Thank you.

 

[Bigditch]

Read the article online when i Googled, 2025 Lilly & Jack Sullivan updates.

I really like Grandma Gray. She's hardcore cool!