NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #11 *Arrest*

[waldojabba]

We do know he knew about that conference, and that he’d be able to target the CEO there. I’m assuming he found out about it online. If it wasn’t published anywhere, maybe he communicated with someone who did know.

We don’t know specifics of his movements, or what they actually have on camera.

How Luigi Mangione’s notebook helped federal prosecutors build their case and what’s next as he faces mounting charges

It was writings laid bare in a notebook found in Luigi Mangione’s possession, authorities say, that would help investigators build the federal case against him – a well-planned homicide that involved weeks of stalking the movements of his alleged victim, UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

www.yahoo.com

Good article I had not yet seen. Thanks for posting or if I missed it initially for reposting.

I was not really sure what jury nullification was so just in case I was not the only one wondering it’s explained

“Jury nullification is the secret hope and dream of every defense attorney that doesn’t have a case,” Shapiro said. “You can’t argue for nullification as a defense attorney. But a juror can decide on his or her own to nullify the law, to ignore the evidence, and to say they won’t convict because of their own reasons.”

I never knew as a juror I could ignore evidence and actually say I was ignoring it.

Also it spells out how the Federal charges are
leverage perhaps to get to a plea.

“What’s at play in both the federal and state cases against Mangione, according to Shapiro, is that it’s likely prosecutors don’t want to try the case because it gives Mangione “a soap box to air his views.”

“I think they want Mangione to plead out, which is why they’re holding the death penalty against him,” he said.

Seems right now a plea is in everybody’s best interest.

JMO.

 

[waldojabba]

I am still trying to play catch up to some of this and what is being said. Where can I read about the will and what is its significance in this case?

The will and its significance to this case

Significance - I guess it shows that most likely the family has plenty of cash to litigate the hell out of this with the best legal peeps and that’s IMO the only real important nugget as far as the case goes
Since we don’t have the actual will in its entirety afaik, I assume that Gma’s direct payees were her kids not her grandkids.
There are other things of interest discussed about it but imo they have no bearing on the case.
JMO

 

[NuttMegg]

Brian Thompson marriage secret revealed after CEO killing in NYC

Thompson, 50, was gunned down in the early hours of Wednesday as he was on his way to an investor conference at the New York Hilton Midtown. His killer remains free.

www.dailymail.co.uk

"The complaint accused the CEO of failing to tell investors about the federal probe before he unloaded over 31 percent of his stock, taking in $15.1 million in proceeds.

In legal documents, the fund said Thompson and other company execs sold over $117 million worth of UnitedHealth common stock during the four-month period when insiders knew about the federal antitrust investigation but the public did not."

 

[NuttMegg]

UnitedHealthcare CEO kept a low public profile. Then he was shot to death in New York​

https://www.myjournalcourier.com/business/article/united-healthcare-ceo-kept-a-low-public-profile-19959716.php#content

(Hearst Publication)


"Thompson also drew attention in 2021 when the insurer, like its competitors, was widely criticized for a plan to start denying payment for what it deemed non-critical visits to hospital emergency rooms.
“Patients are not medical experts and should not be expected to self-diagnose during what they believe is a medical emergency,” the chief executive of the American Hospital Association wrote in an open letter addressed to Thompson. “Threatening patients with a financial penalty for making the wrong decision could have a chilling effect on seeking emergency care.”

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Good piece here featuring Barbara Mcquade, former US Attorney. She compares the terrorism charge to a hate crime charge, pointing out that people criticize that one too because it treats certain people as special. She counters that argument by saying that both hate and terrorism crimes seek to coerce and intimate a segment of the population.

She says that it's not your typical murder for that reason. This wasn't just a robbery gone bad, revenge murder, or a random murder on the street; it was designed to send a message to corporate America. The words on the bullets, the talk in the notebook of whacking a CEO, suggests that this is political violence, which has no place in America.

She addresses the risk here of giving him a soap box and how this charge may complicate things, but says that the evidence is very strong. She points out that even if a jury can't agree that the motive was terrorism, they can still find him guilty of second degree murder.

She goes on to talk about how there is no conflict between the Federal and state charges.

All good stuff here. Barbara is so often the voice of reason and fact.

And though the following is possible, I still think he will continue to have growing support with that charge of terrorism. I just don't think most people follow a case through trial. But they will follow their "cause"
She addresses the risk here of giving him a soap box and how this charge may complicate things, but says that the evidence is very strong. She points out that even if a jury can't agree that the motive was terrorism, they can still find him guilty of second degree murder.

 

[NuttMegg]

Slain UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson’s tenure was marked by rocketing profits—and myriad accusations of insider trading and coverage denial

Following Thompson’s death, social media erupted with grievances about the health care giant and private insurers in the U.S.

fortune.com

"investigations have indicated that UnitedHealthcare may have made its coverage policies and procedures more stringent during Thompson’s tenure."
‐---------------
".....UnitedHealthcare effectively culled or limited some therapy expenses using an algorithm, jeopardizing mental health coverage for many Americans... A Senate majority staff report released in October revealed that numerous insurers failed to cover the cost of care for older people who fell or had strokes. UnitedHealthcare in particular denied coverage for post-acute care, or services and support needed after a hospitalization.

In 2019, the insurance provider’s initial denial rate for post-acute care prior authorization requests was 8.7%; by 2022, it had increased to 22.7%." BBM

 

[citygirl]

I think it's entirely possible his parents aren't there because he doesn't want them there. He did disappear for months prior to this murder, and they were desperately looking for him. Perhaps this is a continuation of that.

By all accounts at each hearing he was said to be searching for a familiar face to no avail.
MOO

 

[Moonchild90]

By all accounts at each hearing he was said to be searching for a familiar face to no avail.
MOO

The fact that his mother said that she could picture him doing something like this speaks volumes...IMO

 

[Tiff23fr]

I mentioned Steward Health yesterday morning. Along that path, and keeping Terrorism in mind, below are some occurrences that appear to line up with LM’s notebook.

Feb 27, 2024

US launches antitrust investigation into UnitedHealth, WSJ reports​

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/us-launches-antitrust-investigation-into-unitedhealth-wsj-reports-2024-02-27/

March 26, 2024
The sale will be reviewed closely in Massachusetts, where policy makers are looking for a potential leverage point to force Steward to plow the proceeds into its struggling hospitals and to prevent closure of crucial facilities. Already, some elected officials who have repeatedly accused for-profit Steward of prioritizing shareholders over public health are sounding warnings about the sale of the physicians practice.

Steward Health Care has deal to sell doctor network to UnitedHealth - The Boston Globe

The proposed sale of the doctors group, called Stewardship Health, is part of Steward’s plan to rescue its struggling hospitals, eight of which are in Massachusetts.

www.bostonglobe.com

July 5, 2024
Assistant Attorney General Jonathan Kanter of the Justice Department’s Antitrust Division released the following statement after UnitedHealth Group abandoned its proposed acquisitions of Stewardship Health Inc. and a related company following scrutiny from the Antitrust Division.

UnitedHealth Group Abandons Two Acquisitions Following Antitrust Division Scrutiny

Assistant Attorney General Jonathan Kanter of the Justice Department’s Antitrust Division released the following statement after UnitedHealth Group abandoned its proposed acquisitions of Stewardship Health Inc. and a related company following scrutiny from the Antitrust Division.

www.justice.gov

Aug - 2024​

Steward to sell physician group to private equity firm for $245M​

It’s a major win for bankrupt Steward, which has sought to offload its physician group since December.

Steward to sell physician group to private equity firm for $245M

It’s a major win for bankrupt Steward, which has sought to offload its physician group since December.

www.healthcaredive.com

 

[Tiff23fr]

Specifically June (LM goes off radar around this time)
It’s a major win for bankrupt Steward, which has had mixed successselling its hospitals at auction and has sought to offload its physician group, Stewardship Health, since December. Steward thought it found a buyer in UnitedHealth’s Optum Care in March, but discussions fell apart by June.

Steward to sell physician group to private equity firm for $245M

It’s a major win for bankrupt Steward, which has sought to offload its physician group since December.

www.healthcaredive.com

 

[ttjo]

DBM

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Everything you say here is accurate, and yes, there is a real risk of copycat crimes.

I agree--throw the book at him--but don't feed into that martyrdom by heaping tons of attention on him--having Mayor Adams join the perp walk, etc.

LM is emerging as a symbol of rebellion against a system many view as unjust. That's dry kindling, just waiting for a spark to ignite it. The SNL audience cheering for LM is unsettling, but there's a palpable sense of disillusionment associated with this case.

LM, knowingly or unknowingly (personally, I'm thinking knowingly), played upon the emotions of people who feel unheard and powerless. That's a dangerous thing. When people feel that way, they can gravitate toward extreme responses.

If any of you sat around a radio when numbers were called to send our good friends and brothers to war.....
then maybe, you too, can sense that feeling of being unheard and powerless. So many of those friends and brothers never came home. And for what? moo moo.

I am not convinced he "knowingly" played upon those emotions, or was just escalating his own angry illusions.

But my guess, is that we may learn more about which way this pendulum swings. The more it swings to "knowingly", I feel the less support he will have. If people start to feel they have been "played", the more they would see his true colors. maybe. moo.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

For clarification I would like to point out there is a huge difference between medical preauthorization requests and claims.

I don’t want to take this too off topic— but short version:

Claims are paid after an approved procedure or treatment has been completed. Providers are not going to submit claims for procedures where the preauthorization was denied. So of course it makes sense that number is 90%. Should be even higher, IMO!

The number that’s important, IMO, is how many preauthorization requests are denied? Wonder why they didn’t provide that information? Hmmm…. IMO.

ABSOLUTELY. And an extremely important point.

The insurance industry hires the most actuaries, with insurance companies and consulting firms employing nearly 75% of all actuaries. The largest practice area for actuaries is life insurance and pensions, which accounts for almost half of the actuarial workforce.

Other industries that hire actuaries include:

• Government agencies: Work on Social Security, Medicare, and public welfare programs
• Healthcare companies: Predict healthcare costs and risks

NOTICE: ALL professions are based in health care.


An actuary is a professional who uses mathematics, statistics, and financial theory to analyze the risk of potential events and help businesses and clients manage that risk:

Actuaries

Actuaries use mathematics, statistics, and financial theory to analyze the economic costs of risk and uncertainty.

www.bls.gov

 

[Arkay]

it reflects a growing undercurrent of societal resentment toward the health insurance industry and the idea that it's exploitative and indifferent to human suffering.

Of course we all know that this, by appearances, purports to be LM’s cause, and prompted him to kill this CEO mogul of the health insurance industry.
With the ultimate goal of decapitating the entire industry in favor of all the suffering customers who are denied their due care.

Naturally, I thought that too, when LM was an anonymous, masked enigma who seemed steps ahead of law enforcement.

I genuinely no longer believe that. I do not see him as the standard-bearer for those whose health and very lives were destroyed by BT and his policies.

My family has been injured by care withheld. I get the anger and hopelessness.

But LM was not insured by UHC. He was apparently able to get his back surgery, so whichever entity did insure him seems to have come through for him.

Luigi’s own writings in the past gave people tips on how to outwit the industry by exaggerating symptoms and the impact on their lifestyles, so it seems more IMO that it was him trying to pull one over on them, rather than the industry doing that to him.

Furthermore, he traveled the world, he zipped all over NYC, he ran across the street and bicycled with a heavy-laden backpack (gun etc.within) on his presumably aching back. He climbed or hiked through mountains in Japan. I don’t see the incapacitating pain that he declared he suffered.

From his writings we see that he has long harbored grandiose ideas (solving Japan’s birth rate) and seeking glory (mournful that the Pythagorean Theorum was already entrenched before he had a chance).

The allure of this case for the media was immediate due to the nature of the crime, the timing and location of the crime, the status of the victim, long before we knew he was a smart, good-looking guy from a wealthy family.

The fact that so much of the public has anointed him now as the martyred hero of their grievances is acutely disturbing to me.

He is not the hero of the public; he is just the hero of his own berserk narrative.

The show of force by the mayor and enough LE to resemble an army actually backfired.
I have seen numerous photos online showing pictures of Jesus surrounded by Roman soldiers and comparing Luigi to those.

I hope LM is prosecuted under whatever charges will be most effective in dissuading an adoring public from this misaligned hero worship.

The guy is just another punk who thought he was greater than the law and got his wish fulfillment by 1) killing someone to satisfy himself and 2) becoming a cause célèbre even though I don’t believe this was his actual cause.

Clearly, only my opinion.

 

[Charlot123]

Of course we all know that this, by appearances, purports to be LM’s cause, and prompted him to kill this CEO mogul of the health insurance industry.
With the ultimate goal of decapitating the entire industry in favor of all the suffering customers who are denied their due care.

Naturally, I thought that too, when LM was an anonymous, masked enigma who seemed steps ahead of law enforcement.

I genuinely no longer believe that. I do not see him as the standard-bearer for those whose health and very lives were destroyed by BT and his policies.

My family has been injured by care withheld. I get the anger and hopelessness.

But LM was not insured by UHC. He was apparently able to get his back surgery, so whichever entity did insure him seems to have come through for him.

Luigi’s own writings in the past gave people tips on how to outwit the industry by exaggerating symptoms and the impact on their lifestyles, so it seems more IMO that it was him trying to pull one over on them, rather than the industry doing that to him.

Furthermore, he traveled the world, he zipped all over NYC, he ran across the street and bicycled with a heavy-laden backpack (gun etc.within) on his presumably aching back.He climbed or hiked through mountains in Japan. I don’t see the incapacitating pain that he declared he suffered.

From his writings we see that he has long harbored grandiose ideas (solving Japan’s birth rate) and seeking glory (mournful that the Pythagorean Theorum was already entrenched before he had a chance).

The allure of this case for the media was immediate due to the nature of the crime, the timing and location of the crime, the status of the victim, long before we knew he was a smart, good-looking guy from a wealthy family.

The fact that so much of the public has anointed him now as the martyred hero of their grievances is acutely disturbing to me.

He is not the hero of the public; he is just the hero of his own berserk narrative.

The show of force by the mayor and enough LE to resemble an army actually backfired.
I have seen numerous photos online showing pictures of Jesus surrounded by Roman soldiers and comparing Luigi to those.

I hope LM is prosecuted under whatever charges will be most effective in dissuading an adoring public from this misaligned hero worship.

The guy is just another punk who thought he was greater than the law and got his wish fulfillment by 1) killing someone to satisfy himself and 2) becoming a cause célèbre even though I don’t believe this was his actual cause.

Clearly, only my opinion.

Who he is, doesn’t matter. I had to read about anarcho-terrorists, one by one. It is an interesting reading. What you say - that he was not insured by United, that he seemingly had it well - is so typical for these people. The ones who did not stay in history, either managed to kill the politicians who were very popular and viewed as potential salvators themselves, or belonged to a group disliked by the majority for certain reasons. Otherwise, they are all remembered.
I don’t know if anyone grew up in Europe in the time of the Red Brigades, it would be interesting to hear the account, how they were viewed. However, the groups
IMHO, often self-implode, but standalone figures are a different thing.

 

[Friday Fan]

I don't think this has been posted. It's a few days old. I had to look up "NPC behavior".

Non-player character (NPC) behavior is the actions, responses, and decision-making processes of characters in video games that are not controlled by the player.


Anyway, I think Gurwinder Bhogal's insight is relevant. Considering that LM wrote AI code etc. Parallels with Unabomber's thought process.

If you reject what you believed in and what you have worked for most of your life, then where does that leave you?

 

[girlhasnoname]

Of course we all know that this, by appearances, purports to be LM’s cause, and prompted him to kill this CEO mogul of the health insurance industry.
With the ultimate goal of decapitating the entire industry in favor of all the suffering customers who are denied their due care.

Naturally, I thought that too, when LM was an anonymous, masked enigma who seemed steps ahead of law enforcement.

I genuinely no longer believe that. I do not see him as the standard-bearer for those whose health and very lives were destroyed by BT and his policies.

My family has been injured by care withheld. I get the anger and hopelessness.

But LM was not insured by UHC. He was apparently able to get his back surgery, so whichever entity did insure him seems to have come through for him.

Luigi’s own writings in the past gave people tips on how to outwit the industry by exaggerating symptoms and the impact on their lifestyles, so it seems more IMO that it was him trying to pull one over on them, rather than the industry doing that to him.

Furthermore, he traveled the world, he zipped all over NYC, he ran across the street and bicycled with a heavy-laden backpack (gun etc.within) on his presumably aching back. He climbed or hiked through mountains in Japan. I don’t see the incapacitating pain that he declared he suffered.

From his writings we see that he has long harbored grandiose ideas (solving Japan’s birth rate) and seeking glory (mournful that the Pythagorean Theorum was already entrenched before he had a chance).

The allure of this case for the media was immediate due to the nature of the crime, the timing and location of the crime, the status of the victim, long before we knew he was a smart, good-looking guy from a wealthy family.

The fact that so much of the public has anointed him now as the martyred hero of their grievances is acutely disturbing to me.

He is not the hero of the public; he is just the hero of his own berserk narrative.

The show of force by the mayor and enough LE to resemble an army actually backfired.
I have seen numerous photos online showing pictures of Jesus surrounded by Roman soldiers and comparing Luigi to those.

I hope LM is prosecuted under whatever charges will be most effective in dissuading an adoring public from this misaligned hero worship.

The guy is just another punk who thought he was greater than the law and got his wish fulfillment by 1) killing someone to satisfy himself and 2) becoming a cause célèbre even though I don’t believe this was his actual cause.

Clearly, only my opinion.

What a great post @Arkay. I'll only add one thing:

Once LM's trial is held and he is sentenced, nobody will even remember his name in short order. He didn't affect change about anything, except Top Tier CEO's may now probably be more safety conscious. Which the costs of such will, of course, be passed along ultimately to the consumer.

You're no Hero and certainly no Saint LM. What you are is a cowardly, cold blooded killer.

JMO

 

[stanerd]

This kid, on top of everything else, has a great charisma.

That's what really bothers me about this case. A young, intelligent, educated, seemingly socially adept man from a wealthy family background just decides out of the blue to ruin both his life and another man's life. He had to have realized that he would be caught and probably spend the rest of his life in prison. I just don't get it. He could have had a very successful career, started a family, and enjoyed many more trips to exotic locations around the world. Why he opted for living in a cage instead is beyond my comprehension.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Of course we all know that this, by appearances, purports to be LM’s cause, and prompted him to kill this CEO mogul of the health insurance industry.
With the ultimate goal of decapitating the entire industry in favor of all the suffering customers who are denied their due care.

Naturally, I thought that too, when LM was an anonymous, masked enigma who seemed steps ahead of law enforcement.

I genuinely no longer believe that. I do not see him as the standard-bearer for those whose health and very lives were destroyed by BT and his policies.

My family has been injured by care withheld. I get the anger and hopelessness.

But LM was not insured by UHC. He was apparently able to get his back surgery, so whichever entity did insure him seems to have come through for him.

Luigi’s own writings in the past gave people tips on how to outwit the industry by exaggerating symptoms and the impact on their lifestyles, so it seems more IMO that it was him trying to pull one over on them, rather than the industry doing that to him.

Furthermore, he traveled the world, he zipped all over NYC, he ran across the street and bicycled with a heavy-laden backpack (gun etc.within) on his presumably aching back. He climbed or hiked through mountains in Japan. I don’t see the incapacitating pain that he declared he suffered.

From his writings we see that he has long harbored grandiose ideas (solving Japan’s birth rate) and seeking glory (mournful that the Pythagorean Theorum was already entrenched before he had a chance).

The allure of this case for the media was immediate due to the nature of the crime, the timing and location of the crime, the status of the victim, long before we knew he was a smart, good-looking guy from a wealthy family.

The fact that so much of the public has anointed him now as the martyred hero of their grievances is acutely disturbing to me.

He is not the hero of the public; he is just the hero of his own berserk narrative.

The show of force by the mayor and enough LE to resemble an army actually backfired.
I have seen numerous photos online showing pictures of Jesus surrounded by Roman soldiers and comparing Luigi to those.

I hope LM is prosecuted under whatever charges will be most effective in dissuading an adoring public from this misaligned hero worship.

The guy is just another punk who thought he was greater than the law and got his wish fulfillment by 1) killing someone to satisfy himself and 2) becoming a cause célèbre even though I don’t believe this was his actual cause.

Clearly, only my opinion.

Well said.
But younger generations listen?
I do believe most of us here are older senior Americans. I really dislike how negative it has become to be labled a boomer.
<modsnip: Removed comment that led to too much OT discussion>

I am reminded of how soooo far off I was in the beginning. I really was thinking he was an international terrorist playing with America in this specific period of transition between an election and an inauguration. I was even starting to think they would consider, or at least talk about, having an indoor inauguration....

Now I am wondering would that have been better or worse as to the public response?

 

[GRT]

IMO - For a long long time Hollywood has glorified attractive people wielding weapons (power) and getting away with crimes. So here we are.

You can say that again.

Hollywood often frames rebellion and violence in ways that highlight charisma or a righteous cause. They blur moral boundaries and encourage viewers to sympathize--or even root for--those who break the law. Maybe it started with the earliest Western movies.

That dynamic is at play here, too.