NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #5

[adot0902]

I think every car that takes passengers in NYC will have a camera these days, yes

Eh. I’m fairly certain both didn’t have cameras that I took. However, my husband works for a popular hotel brand and we get great deals so we definitely stay outside of our “real budget” and in the hotels the CEO’s are in (granted not during a black out period and when a room is free) but all the black cars have had 2 cell phones no cameras and no you are on camera signs.

 

[SleuthJan]

Could BTs phone have been hacked by the suspect? BT stepping out at 6.45 am and the suspect being right there is still a bit unfathomable to me.

 

[UpdatingHistory]

One question, when I go to NYC I take the subway or blackcars (the suvs). I use cash for both because I have no faith in humanity. But why would you take a cab when you have cash and not a black car, they are maybe 25% more but offer privacy. I don’t know the cabs confuse me… or do black cars have cameras and I’m just ignorant to them?

I think he'd need a cell phone to book & confirm etc. Otherwise, if he hadn't tossed his (if in fact that burner they found was the suspect's), then yes he couldn't tried that but I think many if not all of them have cameras now too.

 

[quadrille]

or he picked up the Atlanta bus in/near NJ then went into the city in an attempt to throw off LE.

It’s telling that he isn’t on camera in the Atlanta bus station. Or, they haven’t found or released it yet.

I don’t think he boarded in Atlanta. IMO

Or he had on a clever disguise that made him look completely different

 

[EBW321]

isn't It possible he skimmed something off the top of the trash to drop, like a water bottle?

I think that’s a definite possibility. I have rewatched the video a dozen times. Looks like his coffee or water is in his left hand. Right hand appears to have nothing in it but he stops and leans over trash and appears more to me at least, to place something there. Not pick something up. I could definitely be wrong.

My eyes are bad and footage is further away right there so it’s just hard to tell.

This link has video of it at the bottom I believe.

Tell me what you think.

UnitedHealthcare CEO shooting updates: Luigi Mangione indicted for murder 'as an act of terrorism' and other charges in New York

The 26-year-old has been charged with murder in the Dec. 4 of killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

www.yahoo.com

 

[whitelilac]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
you mean this one? https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/08/us/brian-thompson-unitedhealthcare-gunman-search-sunday/index.html

 

[adot0902]

That is interesting! What is a blackcar? Is it something that anyone in the NYC metro area would know about?

I assume so. They are private cabs that hotels or you personally arrange to take you places. A step up from taxis and Ubers, a step below private drivers.
I hate cabs (don’t shame me) and Uber stinks in NYC (for me), so I always use black cars, you just tell the doorman when you want a car and it’s there.

Always a black suv.

 

[Curiousobserver]

i don't know that there's any evidence to unequivocally refute this theory. but what an amazing stroke of "luck" if his plan was that open-ended, and he nonetheless ended up murdering the CEO of United's insurance division, the business unit within all of UHG that is the most frequent subject of the public's ire.

I know- I just can’t imagine how he would know that far ahead where BT was going to be. Leaving the hotel when he did and walking over would be a somewhat time-variable, random choice to within 15 min or so.

 

[Betty P]

Excuse the "jump in" but have been developing thoughts. (Fast moving threads.) This is not a random act, this was a "hit first" and "assassination second." The only reason it is being called an assassination is because of his job status. CEO's have legal departments to handle lawsuits for their companies...it is a given. But how many are facing charges of insider trading? I keep getting the vibe he was ready to turn on his co-conspirators and cut a deal with the Feds. I think a co-conspirator with more to lose or a group of co-conspirators decided BrianT had to be silenced because he was cooperating with the Feds. Even if it wasn't true, it is a lot easier to place all the blame on the deceased victim/partner.
*This reminds me of a case where a man put out a hit when he got wind his partner (of many years) was cutting a deal with the Feds and throwing him under the bus. The man became so enraged, he arranged the murder of his lifelong friend. If I recall correctly, BrianT's gain on the insider trading charges was much lower than others. Perhaps he was viewed as disloyal?

I've thought this from the beginning.

BT was in a very difficult situation wit the charges for insider trading. His world was under serious threat possibly with loss of a job, income, possible upcoming trial, legal expenses, etc.

He was also seen talking on a cell phone as he walked down the street just prior to shooting BT. It's kind of hard to dismiss that information as irrelevant.

 

[CityKid]

For those thinking about the e-bike, I heard that police said he ditched the e-bike on/near 85th street, just before catching the cab a block north on 86th street. If police know about this change in his mode of transportation, then I'm not sure why police don't yet have that e-bike now.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone came across an unchained e-bike and took it.

 

[adot0902]

I think he'd need a cell phone to book & confirm etc. Otherwise, if he hadn't tossed his (if in fact that burner he found was the suspect's), then yes he couldn't tried that but I think many if not all of them have cameras now too.

Or he did previously from his hostel and got the drivers contact. I do that all the time, you end up paying the person directly cut out the middle man service. In his case cut out the digital trail.

 

[Parsnip]

I assume so. They are private cabs that hotels or you personally arrange to take you places. A step up from taxis and Ubers, a step below private drivers.
I hate cabs (don’t shame me) and Uber stinks in NYC (for me), so I always use black cars, you just tell the doorman when you want a car and it’s there.

Always a black suv.

Thank you! No shame. So a private cab, cash can be payment, and the arrangement is not directly online ? And most people who live in NYC would know about this service?

 

[vls12345]

The hunt for UnitedHealthcare CEO's elusive killer yields new evidence, but few answers

One conclusion they are confident of, however: It was a targeted attack, not a random one.

www.11alive.com

 

[adot0902]

Thank you! No shame. So a private cab, cash can be payment, and the arrangement is not directly online ? And most people who live in NYC would know about this service?

Yes. I’ve always paid cash, and always used a doorman to book. I assume all hotels/restaurants/entertainment venues have them.

 

[polywog]

Re: these new photos taken from and in the taxi - I have my doubts about the authenticity of these. First, look how light it is outside - sunrise in NYC is not until after 7am, so it would still be dark-ish. The photo taken in the taxi looks staged, it's hard to believe the shooter would poke his head toward that window and look directly at the camera.
Geeez, how many jackets does this guy own?? That's another thing. He was not wearing that jacket when he did the shooting, that had a tag on the upper left, this one does not. That one was not a puffer. I am fairly certain it was a Patagonia Houdini windbreaker. It almost seems as if someone was trying to imitate him to throw a red herring, maybe in cahoots with the taxi driver, which I would not put past people as he has become something of a folk hero.

 

[knla]

Could BTs phone have been hacked by the suspect? BT stepping out at 6.45 am and the suspect being right there is still a bit unfathomable to me.

I was thinking he could have hacked BT's hotel's surveillance or door lock info. Maybe put hidden cameras in his hotel room.

 

[krikken]

I think that’s a definite possibility. I have rewatched the video a dozen times. Looks like his coffee or water is in his left hand. Right hand appears to have nothing in it but he stops and leans over trash and appears more to me at least, to place something there. Not pick something up. I could definitely be wrong.

My eyes are bad and footage is further away right there so it’s just hard to tell.

This link has video of it at the bottom I believe.

Tell me what you think.

UnitedHealthcare CEO shooting updates: Luigi Mangione indicted for murder 'as an act of terrorism' and other charges in New York

The 26-year-old has been charged with murder in the Dec. 4 of killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

www.yahoo.com

I see. Thanks. No, in this case it doesn't look like he picked up anything. He does make a motion as if transferring something to right hand. My #1 guess then is pantomime/ruse. Or placed the plastic tab or plastic cap (don't know if they're tethered in NYC) there.

 

[Mandrew]

No CEO walks into anywhere not appropriately dressed. No overcoat on a freezing day? Nope. No way. If you think it's a coincidence that he is not dressed right or carrying a briefcase the moment he got shot, then you aren't thinking hard enough about this. Ask yourself why the shooter was at Starbucks 2.5 blocks away and mysteriously knew when the CEO would exit the Marriott? He knew bc he is part of the conspiracy, the shooter lured out the CEO. They know each other somehow.

Having worked in hotels, it's easy to get a clerk in a hotel to give you such info. Security is only as good as the least paid employee. A few bucks and a nod to tip my "dad" when he leaves so I can surprise him (made up of story of course, so the employee can text is so called dad.), would work on 99% of hotel clerks. And of course the hotel clerk that was bribed would keep his mouth shut for many reason, not least thinkin he was going to be charged with accessory before the fact.

I used to shop employees and most fail even basic security all the time. After all they only get paid a buck or so more than minimum wage.

And since my semi-retirement I work in a club with some of the richest CEOs and businessmen in Chicago and you could not be more wrong about how CEOs dress

 

[ChrisM]

As expected, I found the following information BBM:

"The use of the allegedly defective AI model, developed by NaviHealth and called "nH Predict,"

"The nH Predict model was developed by NaviHealth Inc, a Tennessee company acquired by UnitedHealth in 2020 for $2.5 billion, the lawsuit states."

"UnitedHealth Group has been deploying AI and ML applications at-scale for more than a decade. Currently, these efforts are focused on reducing administrative burdens and ensuring health care workers can focus on tasks they are uniquely qualified for."

"Coverage decisions are ultimately "based on CMS coverage criteria and the terms of the member's plan," Albright said, adding that the lawsuit "has no merit."

"Aaron Albright, a spokesperson for NaviHealth told CBS MoneyWatch that the AI-powered tool is not used to make coverage determinations but as "a guide to help [UnitedHealth] inform providers ... about what sort of assistance and care the patient may need."

"The plaintiffs are the families of Gene B. Lokken and Dale Henry Tetzloff, both now-deceased patients who were covered by a Medicare Advantage Plan policy provided by UnitedHealthcare. from at least November 2019 to 2023."


There may have been other things I wanted to point out but BT became CEO in 2021, a lot of the problems they are referring to were problems prior to him becoming CEO. They are actually problems that have always been around in the healthcare industry and are not specifically due to anything related to BT personally. The anger regarding the coverage decisions may as well be more about the CMS coverage criteria and terms of the member's plan. There are criteria involved in those determinations that are beyond UHC's control in the matter. I can't speak to details related to those particular lawsuits but when you are dealing with someone who is on Medicare and have a supplemental policy, the terms of that coverage is spelled out before any of the patient's experience these medical emergencies/situations. In all accounts of what I read in the articles, the AI tool is not "denying" claims/coverage.. it is being used for other functions related to the entire process. The named tool, was developed by NaviHealth, not BT... so again, I see people incorrectly stating online that he himself developed this horrible AI program TO DENY claims...which is completely false.

I completely understand the frustrations people experience with their medical insurance. I truly do, but it is NOT due to any one person, it is the entire healthcare industry practices of all involved that culminate into this horrendous problem. You have member s who defraud the insurance companies, you have physicians/facilites who are defrauding the insurance companies as well as the members, you have insurance policies which are set up based on state or federal laws ... The issue is much bigger than the CEO of one organization. Again, the anger directed at this man personally is insane to me and this shooter either hated him personally for some reason or wrongly views him as the entire face of UHC or the US Healthcare system.

your points are completely valid and no one could disagree, including (i'd guess) the perp. i do think, though, there must be an (irrational) emotional aspect to the shooting that has greatly over-ridden whatever his rational thinking may be telling him. from what's known so far i think he must be a fairly intelligent person. it seems unlikely that an intelligent person would attribute corporate policies to any single corporate officer and then rationally justify, to themselves, killing them; there *must* be considerable personal circumstance and emotion to this, even if the emotion is well disciplined. as well, you mentioned misinformation earlier, on which this guy may have been completely absorbed and fueling some (or all) of his justification. this case is as complex as it is intriguing, imo.

 

[fridaybaker]

I'm not familiar with the structure of and players in the US healthcare insurance market, being a Brit and all that, but it seems to me that denying 90% of claims isn't a sustainable business model in the long run, at least in theory, because a significant proportion of customers will calculate that paying the premiums isn't worth the risk and will either choose to place their business with a competitor (if possible) or simply self-insure (ie, do without).

Where to start?

Ahem, a ton of people purchase their insurance through their employer; however, what they pay in terms of premium and deductible is substantially reduced due to bargaining agreements between employers and insurance companies. Additionally, because insurance is so expensive, employers usually offer packages where they pay part of the premium, making it affordable for the employee. Simply put, many of us have virtually no choice as to where we obtain insurance, becase anything outside of what the employer offers is astronomical, price-wise.

Not having insurance is generally not an option, although many young people take the risk and do it. The reason that it's not an option for many is that one serious illness, one car accident, etc., can make you lose everything. Your house, your car, your savings. Everything. (That's why it's generally young people who do this. They have little to lose.)

Denying 90% of claims seems high, but the reality of it is, whether it's denial of 50% of claims or 90%, or anything in between; or whether it's simply making patients jump through hoops to get the insurance company to payout,; or whether it's people or AI making the decisions; this has been going on for many, many years, and insurance companies just keep getting bigger, and their CEO's, and CFO's, and CTO's, and all the other fat-cats at the top are raking in millions between stock options, bonuses, and annual salaries (which are generally a tiny part of the compensation packages).

I won't bore you with all of my insurance woes, but maybe a little example is in order: As a contract employee, the best deal I've been able to get on insurance is this (I'm talking about one person, 50 - 60 years old and in decent health):

My premiums are right around $900/ month, and I have a deductible of almost $5,000 per year. In addition, I pay a $35 co-pay at each visit, which I continue to pay after the deductible is met. Between premiums and deductible, that's $15,000 per year, should I have enough medical bills to hit the deductible. So, with no medical bills at all, I'll pay over $10,000 per year. If I need medical care, I'll pay that, plus the $35 co-pay per visit, if it's significant care, $5,000 more out of pocket. When I reach the deductible, I'll still be fighting every claim, begging doctors to write letters stating and re-stating and re-formulating my need for a certain drug or treatment, because it's listed on an "as-needed" basis, and the original claim the doctor sent in didn't fulfill that need, per the insurance company. Yada, yada, yada. On and on it goes.

That is the state of insurance in the U.S. for many of us.

Sorry for the long post folks, but there is much "insurance pain" out there!