Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #12

[Simply Southern]

Moo.... Placing military support and Ukraine could violate Article 1, NATO. Zelensky is indirectly trying to engage the US and Europe into his war. He knows this.

If Russia fired weapons on military peacekeepers, a decision would need to be made.
A) immediately withdrawal
B) engage Russia soldiers

North Atlantic Treaty - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Article 1
Article 1 of the treaty states that member parties "settle any international disputes in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered, and to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations."[6]

Members seek to promote stability and well-being in the North Atlantic area through preservation of peace and security in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.[6]

 

[UK Girl]

Moo.... Placing military support and Ukraine could violate Article 1, NATO. Zelensky is indirectly trying to engage the US and Europe into his war. He knows this.

If Russia fired weapons on military peacekeepers, a decision would need to be made.
A) immediately withdrawal
B) engage Russia soldiers

North Atlantic Treaty - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Article 1
Article 1 of the treaty states that member parties "settle any international disputes in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered, and to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations."[6]

Members seek to promote stability and well-being in the North Atlantic area through preservation of peace and security in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.[6]

Tbh Russia invaded Ukraine and are at fault. If Russia fire weapons thats on them and no one else. Incidentally it was Trump who said about sending peace keepers. The thing is IF Russia seriously is intending to do the right thing then there will not be a problem. Incidentally I imagine NATO knows the rules

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Moo.... Placing military support and Ukraine could violate Article 1, NATO. Zelensky is indirectly trying to engage the US and Europe into his war. He knows this.

If Russia fired weapons on military peacekeepers, a decision would need to be made.
A) immediately withdrawal
B) engage Russia soldiers

North Atlantic Treaty - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Article 1
Article 1 of the treaty states that member parties "settle any international disputes in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered, and to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations."[6]

Members seek to promote stability and well-being in the North Atlantic area through preservation of peace and security in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.[6]

Respectfully @Simply Southern ….. IIUC neither Ukraine nor Russia are within NATO presently.

One wonders how the aggression of Russia for entering Ukraine would be in conflict or counter to any EU or other international or applicable law, including the UN.

This UN online October 20, 2023 Human Rights report entitled ‘Commission of Inquiry finds further evidence of war crimes in Ukraine’ may have some relevance:

Commission of Inquiry finds further evidence of war crimes in Ukraine

A new UN report has found continued evidence of war crimes and human rights violations committed by Russian authorities in Ukraine, including torture, rape and the deportation of children.

news.un.org

Unfortunately I cannot speak to any actions of any current entities, either in or out of NATO. And would need to defer to international experts on any actions planned or conducted, or already implemented. MOO

 

[sds71]

President Donald Trump ordered a pause to all military aid to Ukraine, turning up the heat on Volodymyr Zelenskiy just days after an Oval Office blowup with the Ukrainian president left the support of his country’s most important ally in doubt.

The US is pausing all current military aid to Ukraine until Trump determines the country’s leaders demonstrate a good-faith commitment to peace, according to a senior Defense Department official, who asked not to be identified discussing private deliberations.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-03-03/trump-pauses-military-aid-to-ukraine-after-clash-with-zelenskiy?utm_source=twitter&utm_content=business&cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&embedded-checkout=true

 

[Simply Southern]

Either T is REALLY on good terms with P, or at least HE THINKS he is.......time will tell.

“Keep your friends close; keep your enemies closer.”
Sun Tzu is credited with the phrase

Moo.... The only way you can know what your enemies up to is to be friendly with them.
Even LE uses good cop, bad cop to obtain information, confessions.

 

[Lilibet]

Russia plans to launch 500 kamikaze drones per day at Ukraine, HUR says.Russia currently uses 150 to 200 drones per attack against Ukraine, but Russian forces plan to increase their capabilities to 500, Vadym Skibitskyi said.
️ Russia plans to launch 500 kamikaze drones per day at Ukraine, HUR says.

Russia currently uses 150 to 200 drones per attack against Ukraine, but Russian forces plan to increase their capabilities to 500, Vadym Skibitskyi said.Russia plans to launch 500 kamikaze drones per day at Ukraine, HUR says— The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent) March 3, 2025

Clearly Russia is escalating in order to strengthen its position at the negotiation table. Putin is making it as horrible for Ukraine as possible so it will give in to its demands.
JMO

 

[UK Girl]

Clearly Russia is escalating in order to strengthen its position at the negotiation table. Putin is making it as horrible for Ukraine as possible so it will give in to its demands.
JMO

Yet Putin is keen for all this to stop...supposedly. It is pretty obvious that he isnt IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

To be clear, I was directly quoting Trump and his many lies..

Yes, i realise that. Just adding to your post. Next time I will try to remember to say that.

 

[Simply Southern]

Tbh Russia invaded Ukraine and are at fault. If Russia fire weapons thats on them and no one else. Incidentally it was Trump who said about sending peace keepers. The thing is IF Russia seriously is intending to do the right thing then there will not be a problem. Incidentally I imagine NATO knows the rules

Trump has never said we would send military troops, provide air support, naval support at any time.

He met with the PM UK and President France last week. There were at least two press conferences per dignitary. At each press conference, Trump repeated himself numerous times, no military support from the US.

Yes, NATO members know the rules. I think that's why the European countries are treading so carefully.

Israel is in full war with Hamas (aggressor). They are a NATO member. NATO members are not engaged in combat, but providing other non-combat resources.

Based on the US non-combat involvement with Israel, I just don't believe the US will provide any type of military troops or air support do Ukraine.

Moo...

 

[Cedars]

Clearly Russia is escalating in order to strengthen its position at the negotiation table. Putin is making it as horrible for Ukraine as possible so it will give in to its demands.
JMO

Except there's no indication Putin intends to be at any negotiation table.

These 'peace talks' are an entirely fictional scenario created by Trump.

IMO, all they have discussed is reopening embassies.

Perhaps Putin has stated his position: "bring me Ukraine's surrender."

 

[Simply Southern]

Respectfully @Simply Southern ….. IIUC neither Ukraine nor Russia are within NATO presently.

One wonders how the aggression of Russia for entering Ukraine would be in conflict or counter to any EU or other international or applicable law, including the UN.

This UN online October 20, 2023 Human Rights report entitled ‘Commission of Inquiry finds further evidence of war crimes in Ukraine’ may have some relevance:

Commission of Inquiry finds further evidence of war crimes in Ukraine

A new UN report has found continued evidence of war crimes and human rights violations committed by Russian authorities in Ukraine, including torture, rape and the deportation of children.

news.un.org

Unfortunately I cannot speak to any actions of any current entities, either in or out of NATO. And would need to defer to international experts on any actions planned or conducted, or already implemented. MOO

I didn't do a good job of trying to make my point. If the European nations agree to put military support into Ukraine territory, acting as peacekeepers and Russia engages them. Russian would be attacking a NATO European country. An attack on a European country would invoke article 5 of NATO. It becomes a world war world war.

If NATO attacks Russia, Russia allies, China and North Korea, with monstrous military capability, will join forces with Russia. WWIII.

Moo, there has to be a peace agreement. Ukraine will have to concede or Russia will not agree. Yes, Russia was the aggressor. Russia has taken land. Russia has killed many. Russia has taken prisoners including children. Yes it's unfair, yes it's a rotten deal ,but it's the best outcome for the WORLD. Ukraine has been in turmoil and in combat with Russia since it declared Independence.

Yes, there are many International laws but no international law enforcement agency. The UN serves many purposes, including investigating human rights. The UN does not have a law enforcement agency to take action. The most the UN can do is the resolution.

Moo..

 

[STAGNUM]

A whole lot of money and the troops over there assisting with Ukraine, their training, their kit, their equipment.

Yep, we've all just been sitting here twiddling our thumbs apparently; I should tell my 2nd eldest that he's doing nothing over there and should come home now instead of 5 months from now as scheduled.

The attached chart is helpful when discussing contributions to Ukraine. The column on the right shows the output by nations to Ukraine ... and the percentage contributed per citizen of that nation (ie: % GDP).

Denmark leads the way (they're at 2.2%!!) and Sweden and the United Kingdom pulling in 2nd and 3rd. Netherlands in 4th and Canada in 5th as to percentage of support to Ukraine per citizen. The US sits at 6th.


View attachment 567663

.

Some context of all US expenditures per GDP. The Ukraine is not breaking the bank.

 

[Simply Southern]

Some context of all US expenditures per GDP. The Ukraine is not breaking the bank.

View attachment 567931

It's for 2021, Russia didn't invade Ukraine until 2022. I don't think this is even relevant.

Do you have a source/link,? I just like to validate who's providing this information.

Moo

 

[Simply Southern]

A whole lot of money and the troops over there assisting with Ukraine, their training, their kit, their equipment.

Yep, we've all just been sitting here twiddling our thumbs apparently; I should tell my 2nd eldest that he's doing nothing over there and should come home now instead of 5 months from now as scheduled.

The attached chart is helpful when discussing contributions to Ukraine. The column on the right shows the output by nations to Ukraine ... and the percentage contributed per citizen of that nation (ie: % GDP).

Denmark leads the way (they're at 2.2%!!) and Sweden and the United Kingdom pulling in 2nd and 3rd. Netherlands in 4th and Canada in 5th as to percentage of support to Ukraine per citizen. The US sits at 6th.


View attachment 567663

.

This is from 2021. Russia did not invade Ukraine until 2022. I don't think this is even relevant.
The chart you posted in the article is 2025.

Moo

 

[UK Girl]

Trump has never said we would send military troops, provide air support, naval support at any time.

He met with the PM UK and President France last week. There were at least two press conferences per dignitary. At each press conference, Trump repeated himself numerous times, no military support from the US.

Yes, NATO members know the rules. I think that's why the European countries are treading so carefully.

Israel is in full war with Hamas (aggressor). They are a NATO member. NATO members are not engaged in combat, but providing other non-combat resources.

Based on the US non-combat involvement with Israel, I just don't believe the US will provide any type of military troops or air support do Ukraine.

Moo...

At this point it seems that the country who is the victim and was invaded by an agressor is being blackmailed to help the aggressor. Different I guess. I am confused why you think Nato are treading carefully. Neither country are members of Nato. WE promised to help Ukraine if they gave up weapons. Not just that if they overthrow Ukraine they can continue through Europe which is what Europe is trying to stop. After all America has that beautiful ocean between them and Europe. They are not in danger. Yet

 

[STAGNUM]

It's for 2021, Russia didn't invade Ukraine until 2022. I don't think this is even relevant.

Do you have a source/link,? I just like to validate who's providing this information.

Moo

I used the 2021 data because the other report was based on 2021 GDP. GDP is calculated on history of previous year. It would be like trying to do your 2025 taxes in this coming April.

The Federal Budget in Fiscal Year 2021: An Infographic | Congressional Budget Office

The federal deficit in 2021 was $2.8 trillion, equal to 12.4 percent of gross domestic product.

www.cbo.gov

 

[Stunned]

I was referencing the opinion in the article, discussing "plans". George Patton was a great military leader. His plan was simple keep moving forward. Great inspiring book, PATTON. Moo

At the London security summit, European leaders on Sunday presented plans for security and peace in Ukraine. With France, the United Kingdom will also initiate a peace plan, an alternative to a deal between the US and Russia.

But according to Bondarev, that doesn't impress the Kremlin at all. The plans are not concrete enough. Europe remains too dependent on America, he thinks. According to him, it only shows that Europe is not prepared for anything. "We are entering the fourth year of the war and Europe has no vision. Europe has no plan. Europe has no strategy."

IMO no one was expecting the United States of America to ever go rogue.
Fixed it everybody!

 

[UK Girl]

I didn't do a good job of trying to make my point. If the European nations agree to put military support into Ukraine territory, acting as peacekeepers and Russia engages them. Russian would be attacking a NATO European country. An attack on a European country would invoke article 5 of NATO. It becomes a world war world war.

If NATO attacks Russia, Russia allies, China and North Korea, with monstrous military capability, will join forces with Russia. WWIII.

Moo, there has to be a peace agreement. Ukraine will have to concede or Russia will not agree. Yes, Russia was the aggressor. Russia has taken land. Russia has killed many. Russia has taken prisoners including children. Yes it's unfair, yes it's a rotten deal ,but it's the best outcome for the WORLD. Ukraine has been in turmoil and in combat with Russia since it declared Independence.

Yes, there are many International laws but no international law enforcement agency. The UN serves many purposes, including investigating human rights. The UN does not have a law enforcement agency to take action. The most the UN can do is the resolution.

Moo..

How is it the best thing for the world if it is not a long time agreement. THAT is what Europe is worried about. They do not trust Putin.

 

[UK Girl]

I am confused because all this about the peacekeepers..and breaking Nato rules...it was Trump that suggested this. No one else.

 

[keek]

At this point it seems that the country who is the victim and was invaded by an agressor is being blackmailed to help the aggressor. Different I guess. I am confused why you think Nato are treading carefully. Neither country are members of Nato. WE promised to help Ukraine if they gave up weapons. Not just that if they overthrow Ukraine they can continue through Europe which is what Europe is trying to stop. After all America has that beautiful ocean between them and Europe. They are not in danger. Yet

Ukraine is the gatekeeper, the dam, that stands against p physically and all the horrible things it is and has gone through. That is a no brainer which I will never understand why that is not beyond CLEAR to everyone. People are oblivious to how ww2 started and the war fought there in Europe, for freedom and democracy and keeping good countries whole and safe. SAME thing, different player. Poland would be next or a smaller country he has tried to take, the march across. Emboldened if overtook Ukraine and it fell. HOW can people say why should we help Ukraine? America is def in danger as we speak, from the inside out, more each time t allows p all kinds of easy entry, that we even KNOW of, proclaimed every hour it seems, giving him an ego boosting welcome as he is doing.