4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #100

[INfisherman]

I wonder what this was…

View attachment 565038

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/021925-Order-Defedants-Moton-Franks-Hearing.pdf

If not the knife itself, maybe some sort of over the shoulder stuff sack/chest pouch/tactical bag (cylindrical or longer rectangular shape) in which to carry rags or also insert keepsakes, potentially? I can’t see the smartest man in the room going in with just a knife & ninja attire. He’s going to bring other sneak tools - flashlight, lockpick, backup weapon like an extendable baton, maybe snacks to distract dog. All the planning involved, he had to be well prepared for any scenario. Clothing is probably expendable so wiping knife on self (pant legs, sleeves, etc.) is possible if not carrying wipe down materials.

JMO

 

[gremlin444]

Ive read two different stories; which is correct:

Knife sheath found next to the body of MM
Knife sheath found under the body of MM

TIA

From all the documents, I think the best interpretation is that the two girls bodies were fairly close together and the knife was partly under MM and partly between them and obscured by the bedding or their pajamas so it wasn't obvious until MM was moved.

 

[Cool Cats]

Ive read two different stories; which is correct:

Knife sheath found next to the body of MM
Knife sheath found under the body of MM

TIA

I think also partially under a blanket.

 

[ilovewings]

I have always "pictured" BK parking on the street behind the house with a ton of plastic covering the inside and possibly the outside of his car. Then I picture black tie trash bags on the ground next to the car.

Then hiding behind the house as he travels down to the 2nd floor sliding glass door because he had checked in the past finding it to be an easy access point.

I see him putting every bit of clothing and weapons and every piece of plastic into the bags. I picture the car trunk covered with plastic and BK throwing everything into it.

Then he has a minimal amount of clothes stashed near by.

I believe he had a hole dug or a water plan to get rid of all this evidence. I also believe he got rid of his 2nd set of clothes maybe driving naked. Country roads helped him to have less coincidental interaction with police.

I believe he was obsessive washing his car inside and out and deliberately got rid of the shower curtain after going home to take a long shower.

I believe he was extra careful not to transfer blood evidence or to leave any internet digital evidence.

However, his plan did not go as planned. People were awake at 4:00am, dog noises, 2 people in MM's bed, witness seeing him walk by, footprint by DM's door, detectives watching him using his neighbor's trash, car caught speeding away from house in a hurry, suspicious sister, and worst of all - losing the sheath with DNA that matches his cheek DNA.

2 Cents.

There is no way he left the sheath on purpose: it was a mistake- he was caught up in the emotions of murdering four people--- mistakes happen- that's how people get caught!!

 

[MassGuy]

There is no way he left the sheath on purpose: it was a mistake- he was caught up in the emotions of murdering four people--- mistakes happen- that's how people get caught!!

Yeah, I totally agree. You don’t take tremendous efforts to leave no DNA, and bring none home with you, yet leave an object behind that could reasonably contain your DNA.

He takes it off, begins stabbing, and gets caught up in the moment. I’d have killed to see his reaction whenever he realized he left it behind.

 

[INfisherman]

So JH really meant it when he said "every day & twice on Sunday."

 

[Cool Cats]

There is no way he left the sheath on purpose: it was a mistake- he was caught up in the emotions of murdering four people--- mistakes happen- that's how people get caught!!

I think the shock of 2 people in bed caused him to get more brutal and caused him to lose the sheath. I think he was very careful not to transfer blood. Deliberately leaving a sheath is too risky for a person trying to get away with 4 murders.

 

[gremlin444]

Whew...that was a lot of reading.

One thing that struck me--and I didn't make a list but maybe I will go back and do so later this week--was how many times Hippler pointed out that the evidence/documentation that the defense presented contradicted ("you said X but you attached exhibit A where you said Y which disproved your claim) or actually provided evidence that they said was missing.

At least once Hippler denied one of the subclaims because even after having them submit an amended Franks exhibits collection, they still didn't provide the evidence that they were stating they had in their claim, and he refused to go digging through all of the rest of it to do their work for them.

 

[INfisherman]

Yeah, I totally agree. You don’t take tremendous efforts to leave no DNA, and bring none home with you, yet leave an object behind that could reasonably contain your DNA.

He takes it off, begins stabbing, and gets caught up in the moment. I’d have killed to see his reaction whenever he realized he left it behind.

I think the shock of 2 people in bed caused him to get more brutal and caused him to lose the sheath. I think he was very careful not to transfer blood. Deliberately leaving a sheath is too risky for a person trying to get away with 4 murders.

I agree - 2x mistakes; sheath was likely lost during excitement/struggle and DNA was on a minute component of the sheath, either missed during pre-murder wipe down or an accidental transfer during commission of the crimes.

 

[gremlin444]

So, per the info given in the Franks we now know that the expansion of the years for the car model by Agent Imel happened on Nov 26.

That's (per PCA):
--1 day after MPD asked area law enforcement agencies to BOLO for white Hyundai Elantras in Nov 25
--3 days before WSU pulled a report on white Elantras on campus and came up with BK's and another officer saw BK's car in the lot both on Nov 29
--11 days before the public press release BOLO on 12/7 with photos of a 2011-2013

 

[Arkay]

Serial Murder Versus Mass Murder

Serial murder and mass murder are two different types of crime with different motivations and goals on the part of the perpetrator.

www.psychologytoday.com

I don’t believe BK intentionally left the sheath behind.

Typically, if there’s a “calling card” or “signature” deliberately left at a murder scene, it is the handiwork of a serial killer, not a mass murderer.

It’s considered by those who study criminal psychology as a taunting riddle to law enforcement. A “hey, it’s me again, catch me if you can” sort of thing.

If this was intended by BK to be a one-time murder, there’s no need to leave a signature behind.

I do think it’s possible, though, as we’ve all previously discussed, that BK did not plan to kill more than one victim. Circumstances of two in the bed together, him running into two other roommates that he then “had to” kill, caused him to “inadvertently” commit mass murder.

Or not.

Only Bryan knows. Perhaps he would have, in fact, gone on to become a serial murderer if he hadn’t botched this up so much.

The link above explains the very different psychologies attributed to serial killers vs. mass killers, but there are some overlaps.

IMO, Bryan did overlap in certain areas. I do not believe though, that someone who appears to have meticulously planned this crime would have opted to leave behind such a vital clue.

 

[gremlin444]

I don't think it was a vacuum. I think you are getting the impressions of a still drunk, half asleep girl who is confused by what she is hearing and seeing in the dimly lit area outside her door.

Remember those early rumors about a towel missing from the 1st floor bathroom? Killing X and E, and then quickly wrapping your huge sharp knife in a hand towel or even bath towel so that you don't cut yourself as you escape...gives you a bulky foot to foot and a half long object that her mind could easily interpret as something like a Dustbuster/Dirt Devil.

 

[gremlin444]

So, I'm too old to know what 28 yos do......

How common is it for ppl in their late twenties to use a VPN on their cell phone while checking their email out in public?

 

[Cool Cats]

So, I'm too old to know what 28 yos do......

How common is it for ppl in their late twenties to use a VPN on their cell phone while checking their email out in public?

I think too confusing, don't they get 200 emails a day?

 

[schooling]

If not the knife itself, maybe some sort of over the shoulder stuff sack/chest pouch/tactical bag (cylindrical or longer rectangular shape) in which to carry rags or also insert keepsakes, potentially? I can’t see the smartest man in the room going in with just a knife & ninja attire. He’s going to bring other sneak tools - flashlight, lockpick, backup weapon like an extendable baton, maybe snacks to distract dog. All the planning involved, he had to be well prepared for any scenario. Clothing is probably expendable so wiping knife on self (pant legs, sleeves, etc.) is possible if not carrying wipe down materials.

JMO

If it's not the knife it's the sheath. IRC Law enforcement's early warrants looked for the sheath separately as well as with a particular Ka-Bar that came with that specific sheath.

 

[schooling]

So, per the info given in the Franks we now know that the expansion of the years for the car model by Agent Imel happened on Nov 26.

That's (per PCA):
--1 day after MPD asked area law enforcement agencies to BOLO for white Hyundai Elantras in Nov 25
--3 days before WSU pulled a report on white Elantras on campus and came up with BK's and another officer saw BK's car in the lot both on Nov 29
--11 days before the public press release BOLO on 12/7 with photos of a 2011-2013

You have to wonder if keeping the original dates on the flyer was partially misdirection. As a bunch of us suggested early on.

 

[INfisherman]

If it's not the knife it's the sheath. IRC Law enforcement's early warrants looked for the sheath separately as well as with a particular Ka-Bar that came with that specific sheath.

Unless I am completely misunderstanding the timing of things (which is very likely), wouldn’t the sheath have already been misplaced by this time though, since he was exiting the sliding doors?

 

[schooling]

Normally called a murder kit. I have heard this term used in court.

Murder Kits

What killers pack in their murder bags reveals not just methods but also rituals and levels of ingenuity.

www.psychologytoday.com

Not sure if any of the BF nonsense is in the fillings. Haven't gotten to read it yet. But I'm on the BK had a complete change of clothes bandwagon. I wouldn't be surprised if he got out of one jumpsuit and slipped right into another. JMO

And after taking a shower at home took the shower curtain with him out of sheer panic. MOO

I'm glad the two big largest drivers of conspiracy are essentially dead for now. The car year and the IGG process. Though both will likely be avenues for (surely to fail) appeal attempts. We were promised a gigantic bombshell....any....day....now. And they had nothing. IMO

All MOO

 

[schooling]

Unless I am completely misunderstanding the timing of things (which is very likely), wouldn’t the sheath have already been misplaced by this time though, since he was exiting the sliding doors?

I believe the Dateline reporting that Kohberger received a knife from Amazon in "April of 2022". I think the Amazon warrants tell us the exact day he made the purchase...March 30, 2022. With 2 day shipping lining it up with Dateline reporting. MOO

I believe that there's a much smaller chance that he only bought a sheath for the knife on that date. There's a lot of confusion around if that USMC sheath was packaged with a knife for the subsequent years after it's release MOO. I haven't looked in awhile. If he only bought the sheath then the knife was likely already in his possession.

All MOO

 

[INfisherman]

I believe the Dateline reporting that Kohberger received a knife from Amazon in "April of 2022". I think the Amazon warrants tell us the exact day he made the purchase...March 30, 2022. With 2 day shipping lining it up with Dateline reporting. MOO

I believe that there's a much smaller chance that he only bought a sheath for the knife on that date. There's a lot of confusion around if that USMC sheath was packaged with a knife for the subsequent years after it's release MOO. I haven't looked in awhile. If he only bought the sheath then the knife was likely already in his possession.

All MOO

Right but I was speculating what he was holding when DM observed him leaving - others were suggesting a sheath. That’s where I replied to @MassGuy ’s post with the other items or kill/murder kit as it’s being called.

Not debating with you, just making sure we’re both understanding the context of our posts.

ETA Clarity