4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #100

[Arkay]

90 white Elantras were registered to park on campus

The other 89 white Elantras (over the course of several years) were not all swarming around Moscow at the time of the murders.

It is Bryan who self-declared that he was out driving that night, between Pullman and Moscow, so he could “stargaze.”

How cruel of the stars and moon to refuse to twinkle in Pullman, forcing Bryan to drive to Moscow, right? And have his phone turned off just during the time period
of the slayings.

If I were a juror listening to this charade of an alibi, I would find this extremely unlikely. Beyond a reasonable doubt, in fact.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

Let's pretend for funsies that it's November 10th of that year. Everyone is alive and well.

Let's talk about those dozen or so trips into Moscow.

Let's wonder if any of them are in the 3 am realm.

Let's wonder if, mapped, they're ridiculously identical.

Let's ask if the routes look anything like the triple loop-de-loops he took the night of the murders.

Let's talk about those.

Actually, let's imagine AT talking about them.

I happen to think she'd use phrases like:

* yes, he was driving in Moscow but he wasn't driving over there. (Conveniently true statement. The whole outer loop isn't anywhere near 1122.)

* he wasn't stopping.

What then was he doing?

Seems quite targeted, no? Circling? Circling the airport, looking for the runway? Funny that the perigee of his lunar space drive looks to be planet 1122, the very same place by which he docked his Hyundai rocket and in which four unsuspecting victims were slaughtered to death.

If the dozen excursions into Moscow looked anything like the three tours de King, IF one of the victims, while alive, had reason to be aware of his BK's orbiting Elantra, would they rise to the legal standard of stalking? What if there's minimal or even no stopping? Could we say, "not stalking, just driving around"? Is it technically stalking if it's the whole house he's surveilling? Is it harassment -- is it criminal -- if he learned of the address from following an unsuspecting waitress home, and didn't need to ogle, content to steal glimpses.

He didn't stumble upon that location by accident. Looping with purpose.

I can't wait to see how AT tries to repackage that.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

That is only corroborating evidence if they can prove it was HIS white Elantra. There is no proof of this as far as I know. There's no video that shows the driver or gives any evidence that it is his car.

As far as I know, we also don't know that he drove by the crime scene later that morning. I'm not sure where that came from.



Again, you're mixing up facts with theory here. Yes, he submitted an alibi about stargazing. We don't know if his phone was off or out of a service area (last I heard) and again, we don't know that is his vehicle. That is a white Elantra. He drives a white Elantra. But there is no evidence that is his white Elantra. The prosecution will have to prove that in court.

MOO

I mean, I'm pretty sure a thinking man's jury could piece this together.

His DNA is at the scene. He drives a white Elantra. A white Elanta consistent with his, leaves campus around the time it would have to leave if BK was the killer. His phone data shows that this car is almost certainly his. The defense appears to be conceding as much, admitting that he was out for a drive around this time. His phone goes dark around the time the killer would have needed it to go dark. It didn't come in and out of service, like what happens when one is driving through some rural area. It was transmitting, then it suddenly wasn't. It comes back online after the murders, and BK arrives back at his apartment shortly thereafter.

Bizarrely, or perhaps not (he's the killer after all), he spends about 3 hours at his apartment, and then goes for another brief drive in the Moscow area.

That's just some crazy bad luck. You know who also had crazy bad luck? The killer in every single case I have ever followed on here.

Of course the discussion here had to do with the tower analysis, as it formed part of the probable cause for BK's arrest. It obviously did not delve into the fruits of that arrest, which would have included analysis of his phone itself.

They'll likely know for a fact if he powered his phone down, or if he lost service. They may have a lot more than that too, which means this tower data could become a moot point.

 

[fcavanaugh]

That is only corroborating evidence if they can prove it was HIS white Elantra. There is no proof of this as far as I know. There's no video that shows the driver or gives any evidence that it is his car.

As far as I know, we also don't know that he drove by the crime scene later that morning. I'm not sure where that came from.



Again, you're mixing up facts with theory here. Yes, he submitted an alibi about stargazing. We don't know if his phone was off or out of a service area (last I heard) and again, we don't know that is his vehicle. That is a white Elantra. He drives a white Elantra. But there is no evidence that is his white Elantra. The prosecution will have to prove that in court.

MOO

Respectfully, my post stated it is my opinion after inferring and deduction from the known facts and evidence released so far in the case. Having said that, it is my opinion that the white Elantra on surveillance is BK’s based on logical deduction when taken together with the other known facts released in the case and discussed in these 100 threads since 11/13/22.

I’ve followed true crime for decades, of course I know the prosecution has to prove their case BARD in a court of law.

It is also my opinion that the prosecution will be able to help the Jury piece together/connect the dots of the circumstantial evidence leading to BK as the perpetrator.

It is also my opinion that all LE involved that investigated this case and the prosecution have done their due diligence and have the goods on BK which is why he’s the prime and only suspect charged with slaughtering four innocent college students to death.

IMHOO

ETA-punctuation

 

[jepop]

We don't know if his phone was off or out of a service area (last I heard) and again,

MOO

Snipped for focus. The phone was off according to AJ in the 24th Jan hearing. That's been pointed out in several threads since the hearing. Jmo

 

[LinasK]

I think that the item would have others’ DNAs on it. However, the fact that only BK’s DNA was lifted from the sheath and it was touch DNA is a little bit suspicious. Think of the opposite situation, like leaving your pen at the crime scene. It would contain your DNA, but potentially, these of the people in your household, your work, your bank.

Now, just one spot of touch DNA, and only yours, at the place where the pen is usually held, would be suspicious. It is as if someone bothered to remove other potential sources before lifting yours. Or more likely, cleared all and transferred yours on one spot. It is not difficult to do. When did BK buy the knife on Amazon?

Someone can buy exactly the same later.
Technically, handling of such purchase would assume, the sellers’/packagers’ DNA on the sheath.

Then all DNA is removed, period. Isopropyl alcohol, acetone, any strong solvent.

Any of BK’s things he routinely uses (the collar of his clothes, etc) can be a source of DNA.

Gloves could be worn in the production of the sheath or it might be done by machine. I really don't know how knive sheaths are made unless it appears on the show "How It's Made". Why would all other DNA be cleaned off except the killer's?

 

[LinasK]

I can imagine how a person of his type could get thoughts and dreams of control and dominance sitting for years in a vacuum. Two things, however: first, there is zero connection between him and the victims. (Whatever they say about IG I don’t put much value on.) Second, out of two potential witnesses, only one is seen. (One wants to ask, if he is a random loner from PA, why the fear?) It is like, the house was not in the vacuum, there should have been tons of witnesses, and yet, all depends on DM and touch DNA.

However, this being said, with all my doubts, I won’t be surprised if in course of the trial it will turn out to be a more straightforward case. Some others that have just finished or might be eventually reviewed raise more questions.

I think there IS a connection between him and at least one of his victims that will come out at trial.

 

[gremlin444]

As far as I know, we also don't know that he drove by the crime scene later that morning. I'm not sure where that came from.

They would be basing it on this piece of information available in the PCA:

"Further review indicated that the 8458 Phone utilized cellular resources on November 13,
2022 that are consistent with the 8458 Phone leaving the area of the Kohberger Residence at
approximately 9:00 a.m. and traveling to Moscow, ID. Specifically, the 8458 Phone utilized
cellular resources that would provide coverage to the King Road Residence between 9: 12 a.m.
and 9:21 am. The 8458 Phone next utilized cellular resources that are consistent with the 8458
Phone traveling back to the area of the Kohberger Residence and arriving to the area at
approximately 9:32 a.m."

I would be curious to know if video footage along the path between his apartment and the King Road house at those times shows a similar white Elantra.

And naturally there is the debate that the cell tower covers more than the King Road house. But it definitely doesn't make much sense that at least 13 times before Nov 13 his car utilized that cell tower in Moscow....and then didn't again in the next month and few days until he left to drive back to PA for break.

So, why the sudden change in habit? Did he find new and cooler areas north of Pullman to go for 3 am star gazing drives? Did his favorite store in Moscow close suddenly that weekend? Was he hit with a new civic pride and decided to only support stores in Pullman starting that Sunday? Was his car in for repairs for a month? The price of gas went up and he decided to only take public transport or limit his driving to the bare minimum? His job and his classes didn't change during that time, so that doesn't explain it.

 

[gremlin444]

For the folks who think BK relapsed, whether or committed the murders or not--

Hair testing would show heroin (and many other substance abuse) use in the last 90 days. He was arrested Dec 30. Any drug use happening around the date of the murders, Nov 13, would show up. And they would have had another month and a half post arrest in which they could decide to do a test and still have it show up even if they hadn't done one shortly after arrest.

 

[jepop]

They would be basing it on this piece of information available in the PCA:

"Further review indicated that the 8458 Phone utilized cellular resources on November 13,
2022 that are consistent with the 8458 Phone leaving the area of the Kohberger Residence at
approximately 9:00 a.m. and traveling to Moscow, ID. Specifically, the 8458 Phone utilized
cellular resources that would provide coverage to the King Road Residence between 9: 12 a.m.
and 9:21 am. The 8458 Phone next utilized cellular resources that are consistent with the 8458
Phone traveling back to the area of the Kohberger Residence and arriving to the area at
approximately 9:32 a.m."

I would be curious to know if video footage along the path between his apartment and the King Road house at those times shows a similar white Elantra.

And naturally there is the debate that the cell tower covers more than the King Road house. But it definitely doesn't make much sense that at least 13 times before Nov 13 his car utilized that cell tower in Moscow....and then didn't again in the next month and few days until he left to drive back to PA for break.

So, why the sudden change in habit? Did he find new and cooler areas north of Pullman to go for 3 am star gazing drives? Did his favorite store in Moscow close suddenly that weekend? Was he hit with a new civic pride and decided to only support stores in Pullman starting that Sunday? Was his car in for repairs for a month? The price of gas went up and he decided to only take public transport or limit his driving to the bare minimum? His job and his classes didn't change during that time, so that doesn't explain it.

It's a bad look. Given the totality of evidence, I think it's rather suss he never returned to Moscow after November 13th. Or if he did his phone was always off. Just one more unfortunate coincidence according to some. Fortunately I believe jurors will consider the totality. I'm sure that would be a reasonable thing to do. Jmo

 

[LinasK]

Considering this is the first time IGG has been used in a current case that is impossible. However, just because it has not been done is not an excuse for not doing it. Either LE wants to get to the right answer or they just want any old solution which may or may not be right. Without following the entire evidence trial to completion, they have only a partial picture of what may have happened. It is weak and it is unjust to the victims and their families. JMO.


My numbers are easily proven by decision science. JMO.

It is focusing on a blood spot within the crime scene. Blood DNA is always better evidence than touch/transfer DNA. Blood DNA proves it was deposited within that house. Touch/transfer DNA could have been deposited on the sheath anytime and anywhere. JMO.

Highly doubtful they have the right guy. The FBI NEVER said its was BK's DNA. Nothing else matches up. There is no DNA evidence in his car, apartment, office, storage unit or at his parents house. He didn't know any of the victims existed much less where they lived. JMO.

The case amounts to touch/transfer DNA which has not even been identified as belonging to BK. This is NOT a strong case based upon what we know so far. JMO.

PS: You are forgetting to put JMO after your statements.

All JMOO.

Um, NO it's not the first time IGG has been used in a current case. If you go to my cousin's thread, you'll see that IGG was used recently to convict his killer.

 

[Boxer]

IF they could get evidence from the prosecution, the defense could have it tested, but then the prosecution would claim the tests were wrong/biased. And it is obvious that the prosecution does not want to share any DNA evidence with the defense. What the defense has been able to get, has only been through force via the judges in this case deciding what they can have. JMO.

That entire house was a crime scene with the exception of DM and BF's rooms, perhaps - and we don't even know that for certain, yet. Blood on a bannister is strong evidence because it had to have been deposited in the house and logically was deposited at the time of the crime. Blood on gloves found by CSI just outside the residence is also strong evidence because someone wore those gloves and bled on them. I would expect that the gloves would not only contain the unknown male blood DNA but also touch/trace evidence and even blood possibly of the victims. If both are present, then it is likely the gloves were used in commission of the crimes. JMO.

Touch/trace DNA could have gotten onto that sheath anywhere, anytime and have nothing to do with the crime at all. JMO.

The killer or killers had to enter and leave somehow - either via the back door or the front door or a window. There may have been one point of ingress and a second point of egress or even 2 or more points of ingress and and 2 or more points of egress. We have no real way of knowing where the killer or killers went in 1122. Early in the case LE admitted they didn't know the point of entry or exit. They can only go off of what DM and BF told them but it seems DM isn't sure what happened at all. JMO.

Unknown male DNA B and D could help prove this case against BK IF it turns out that B and D are people BK knew. But we have a complete lack of information about these two critical pieces of evidence. JMO.

I believe it cost around $11,000 to run the IGG on the touch/transfer DNA on the sheath. Financially, another $22,000 to do IGG on these other 2 DNA's is a whole lot cheaper than being sued for millions by the families of the victims and a potentially falsely accused person, if it should come to that. JMO.

JMOO.

MOO If the defense wants it tested, they should do it.

 

[MassGuy]

For the folks who think BK relapsed, whether or committed the murders or not--

Hair testing would show heroin (and many other substance abuse) use in the last 90 days. He was arrested Dec 30. Any drug use happening around the date of the murders, Nov 13, would show up. And they would have had another month and a half post arrest in which they could decide to do a test and still have it show up even if they hadn't done one shortly after arrest.

I'm not sure they would have performed testing like that, but admittedly, I' haven't been arrested. Yet.

I think it's incredibly unlikely based on the level of planning and execution that this entailed. We have a guy who knew where to park, where to enter, how to escape, and how to pull this off without leaving an overt digital trail. Most importantly, he managed to stab 4 people to death without transferring blood to his vehicle.

That's beyond the ability of almost every killer we follow on here, and that includes some very intelligent people who don't have substance abuse issues.

So if I were a betting man, which I absolutely am, I'd bet big on him not committing this crime while under the influence, and that includes prior to the crime as well.

 

[LinasK]

I beg to differ, BK DNÀ is on one thing, a portable item, which in theory could be carried by anybody, I don't know how BK took care of his possessions, so I can't say if he has ever lost or mislaid items, but it is a possibility, the DNÀ in blood on the bannister is a fixed sample, the DNA on the knife sheaf in theory could have been carried into the home by anybody including BK, but all the DNA on the sheaf speaks to at present if the FIGG analysis remains is that at some point BK touches the sheaf, the state then has to walk BK into the home carrying the sheaf to the exclusion of anybody else and IMO leaving unknown untested DNA allows SODDI

Yet his knife sheath is not like a bank pen that anyone has access to. Unless you are claiming that he was framed, it's logical that he left his sheath there. Matthew Muller left his cell phone at the scene of the crime. Add that to the surviving roommate spotting him and the description fits, the knife purchase, the matching car, the cell phone being off and you have a slam dunk case.

 

[LinasK]

I mean, I'm pretty sure a thinking man's jury could piece this together.

His DNA is at the scene. He drives a white Elantra. A white Elanta consistent with his, leaves campus around the time it would have to leave if BK was the killer. His phone data shows that this car is almost certainly his. The defense appears to be conceding as much, admitting that he was out for a drive around this time. His phone goes dark around the time the killer would have needed it to go dark. It didn't come in and out of service, like what happens when one is driving through some rural area. It was transmitting, then it suddenly wasn't. It comes back online after the murders, and BK arrives back at his apartment shortly thereafter.

Bizarrely, or perhaps not (he's the killer after all), he spends about 3 hours at his apartment, and then goes for another brief drive in the Moscow area.

That's just some crazy bad luck. You know who also had crazy bad luck? The killer in every single case I have ever followed on here.

Of course the discussion here had to do with the tower analysis, as it formed part of the probable cause for BK's arrest. It obviously did not delve into the fruits of that arrest, which would have included analysis of his phone itself.

They'll likely know for a fact if he powered his phone down, or if he lost service. They may have a lot more than that too, which means this tower data could become a moot point.

Exactly. The other 90 or so Elantras are irrelevant, as is the one that was spotted around Eugene Oregon. Other people also drive Elantras, but they didn't leave their DNA under a murder victim on a knife sheath that they owned. He did. That's the crux of the case in a nutshell.

 

[jepop]

Um, NO it's not the first time IGG has been used in a current case. If you go to my cousin's thread, you'll see that IGG was used recently to convict his killer.

Yeah I knew that wasn't right.

I am very sorry your cousin was killed. And grateful IGG was instrumental in helping catch their killer.

In 2023 FIGG was also used in the Rachel Morin case.

Rachel Morin's Suspected Rapist & Murderer is Arrested

Harford County Sheriff's Office & FBI Team with Othram to Identify the Suspect in Rachel Morin’s Sexual Assault and Murder

dnasolves.com

"...did not lead to the identity of Morin’s killer, the Harford County Sheriff’s Office collaborated with the FBI to submit forensic evidence to Othram in The Woodlands, Texas, in hopes that advanced DNA testing could help to identify the perpetrator. Othram scientists used Forensic-Grade Genome Sequencing® to build a comprehensive DNA profile for the unknown suspect. After successfully completing the process, the DNA profile was delivered to the FBI Baltimore Division Investigative Genetic Genealogy (IGG) Team. That team performed the necessary genetic genealogy research to generate new investigative leads in the case."

(My emphasis)

Sounds familiar to what happened here. Othram built a profile (SNP assumedly) and turned it over to the fbi. Moo

 

[Arkay]

Um, NO it's not the first time IGG has been used in a current case. If you go to my cousin's thread, you'll see that IGG was used recently to convict his killer.

I’m so sorry that your cousin was murdered. And I’m grateful that his killer was convicted.

I’ve said before, imo IGG is a miracle. Convicting the guilty, exonerating the innocent, and identifying the missing.

 

[LinasK]

I’m so sorry that your cousin was murdered. And I’m grateful that his killer was convicted.

I’ve said before, imo IGG is a miracle. Convicting the guilty, exonerating the innocent, and identifying the missing.

Thank you. Turns out that Portland PPB had cigarette butts that Lovrien had left behind at the crime scene. They used Parabon Labs in Virginia to test them. Got his fresh samples both from a beer glass and a cheek swab.

 

[Charlot123]

I agree with @iamshadow21.

This house may have been a party house, but at the time of the murders the party was surely over, if they even had one that day.

Maddie and Kaylee were in bed, asleep. Xana and Ethan were in their bedroom. Xana had a single food delivery, not for a house load of guests.

Kaylee had already moved out and was just visiting her buddies.

So, no “tons of witnesses.” Not even an “ounce” of witnesses. Just Murphy, and he isn’t talking.

JMO

The houses around were similar, if you think. Some other were party houses. People came back from the game and what do you expect them to do on a Saturday/Sunday night?
On a dash cam police video from that night, guys are walking around around the same time as murders happened carrying alcohol. I would assume marijuana and alcohol, mostly, but who knows? The scene doesn’t look deserted at all.

 

[Charlot123]

Reading these DNA posts...I have to ask: Why does the IGG identification matter at all once the literal cheek swab from BK matches the sheath from the probable murder weapon that was found under/near the victims? I am asking in all seriousness. BK's DNA matches with utmost octillion (bazillion lol) certainty to the knife sheath DNA. Why does the IGG DNA matter at this point?

So then, shouldn't BK/attorneys be focusing on how a knife sheath with his (and ONLY his, single-source multiple-octillion to one matching) DNA ended up in that house, rather than driving around wherever else besides that house (even though a car that looks just like his car was seen driving around that house...but coincidence I guess, whatever)?

Maybe one of BK's 97000 cousins was in town at the same time driving the same/similar type of car?

ALL IMO, JMO. But serious question at the start.

Well, it is one thing to catch EARONS when there is a biological fluid retrieved from multiple murder sites at the time when such testing was not available and kept for years with unbroken custody link.

It is another thing when the method is well-known. To everyone.

Sadly, the Delphi case when the police took a lot of time explaining that touch DNA doesn’t mean anything hence they won’t test it (or at least, they didn’t disclose who it belonged to) plays a role here. People make conclusions, “you can’t base a case on touch DNA”. Then another case is dropped partially because they didn’t check glovebox DNA. People think, “oh, one has to test all DNA available in such cases”.

Then in another state, the whole case is based on touch DNA. And, other DNAs found in the house are not checked.

What does one expect? What is used for the prosecution will be used for the defense. It is obvious.