4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #108

[PunishThenForgive]

does anything think if XK would have played dead after the initial attack she may have survived?

Yes, especially after watching Gray Hughes’s final animated re-enactment. It’s heartbreaking to think of all the what-ifs.

What if Kohberger had turned back to Pullman after spying the Door Dash driver?

What if he had responded to his Korean office mate’s overtures and developed a healthy relationship with her?

And what if he had reached out for help instead of researching Ted Bundy’s methods? After all, he knew something was wrong with him since his alleged teenage Tapatalk musings.

And he’s known ever since then. As stated in the May 9 Dateline episode, at 2:58 am on December 15 (the same day he was later pulled over while driving with his dad in Indiana), Kohberger watched a video on his phone with this quote:

Something…is wrong with me…I can’t be who I need to be…Something is wrong with me…Will it last until eternity.

IMO

 

[SteveP]

And BF would probably know, too. It seems like that bathroom would be the one used by most of the residents (the only other one was upstairs between KG's and MM's rooms, IIRC).

Actually, there was a bathroom on each level. The one on the first level was just outside the unoccupied bedroom. I do believe that the one on the second level was perhaps the most frequently used bathroom, however, as that is the level that all of the common areas were on. JMO

 

[PunishThenForgive]

And BF would probably know, too. It seems like that bathroom would be the one used by most of the residents (the only other one was upstairs between KG's and MM's rooms, IIRC).

BF had her own bathroom downstairs on the first floor:

Virtual Tour of 1122 King Road, Moscow, Idaho

Virtual Tour | In the early hours of November 13, 2022, a mass murder took pl... | 1122 King Road

kuula.co

I agree, though, that Bethany would use the second floor bathroom when on that floor.

ETA: Sorry, Steve, I didn’t see your reply until I submitted my own.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I just cannot buy into the idea that BK stripped off his coveralls while still in the house. He was a criminology doctoral student. I have never taken a single class in criminology, but even I would know to take as many precautions as possible, not to leave my identity at the crime scene. Why even bother to buy the coveralls, if he was going to take them off before leaving the house? I think he got out of the house before he shed his killing attire, likely into a big contractor size trash bag, or into the shower curtain that was laid on the ground, and then it was carefully wrapped and thrown into the trunk of the Elantra. I cannot explain the single bloody footprint, but while I think it may have, I am not 100% sure that belonged to BK either.

I am also not convinced that it was BK that left the blood print on the chair or ottoman, or whatever it was. Not sure how likely he would have been to have enough blood on his backside to leave an impression. I think the blood more likely may have come from Xana, who may have stumbled onto the seat, after being initially wounded. JMO

I agree with this. BK may have made errors in other ways, probably as he assume he'd never be scrutinised but surely his 'genius' plan was to ensure no contamination either way - he didn't want to bring any evidence of himself into the crime scene and he surely didn't want to track any of the crime scene into his car or home.

My suspicion is he intended to peel off his outside layer outside the house, maybe as closely to the manner that surgeons use to disrobe themselves. As someone studying criminology he would be aware of contamination / cross contamination and probably how medical surgeons dress and undress in order to minimise bacteria.

The clue to this is that there is no evidence in his car or home and barely any in the house, had he not left the sheath it would be one footprint and some captures of a speeding white Elantra. I appreciate that time went by and he had done a lot of cleaning.

JMO MOO

 

[MassGuy]

As @MassGuy let us know yesterday afternoon by sharing a screenshot of the Current Case Summary, Anne Taylor submitted the Defendant’s Evidence in Support of Offer of Proof RE: Alternative Perpetrators by the deadline (last Friday, May 23).

View attachment 589705

It doesn’t show up on the Idaho Cases of Interest page since it is sealed. If you only check that page, it’s not obvious that the motion and order to seal exist, either, since they are simply labeled Motion and Order to Seal Defendants Evidence.

Here’s the order to seal Taylor’s evidence in support of there being alternate perpetrators:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/5272025_Order_Sealing_Defs_Evidence_in_Support_of_Offer_of_Proof_RE_Alternate_Perpetrators_and_Exhibits.pdf

I had checked the Current Case Summary each day since the evidence was due, so I’m pretty sure it didn’t appear on the page until yesterday (two days after the Memorial Day holiday), when @MassGuy gave everyone the heads up.

So now we wait. Does Hippler accept the evidence as admissible? Will he wait to decide until the June 18 hearing?

I can't imagine we'll have a decision until several days after that hearing.

 

[Megnut]

It's a strange thing, that a defendant enjoys the presumption of innocence while the defense tries to paint a third party without it.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

I'm picturing the State launching a fresh investigation into whomever the defense names, to stand in effect as counsel for said individual, defending the individual, which will launch a new round of discovery for which the Defense will motion for more time.

AT is going to be hard-pressed to show good cause, placing another person in that house during those fourteen minutes.

If she has chosen someone already in the house... how in hell's name did they get BK's knife? How did they guess on his description? And why does BK still have no alibi?

I predict her motion will be denied. For lack of evidence, nexus. And she'll be left with cross-examination, pounding witnesses in the hopes that the noise will addle one juror's brain into unreasoned doubt.

She may gain little wins here and there but the State has all the ships and all the ammo.

She's sunk.

JMO

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Pennsylvania friends, neighbors recall Moscow homicide suspect Bryan Kohberger's past

A dense, gray cloud settled above Monroe County in the first days of February, blocking the sun’s attempts to break through. More than a month since the U.S. shifted its gaze to this rural region, a shame has fallen over its residents, the result of an incomprehensible crime on the other side of...

www.spokesman.com

According to this article, BK worked at a pizzeria in 2013 and 2014. Also worked for a short period of time at the fish market. I've also read elsewhere that he worked at a BJ's Wholesale Club, in the produce and meat departments. I think that was in his job application for the LE position in Pullman. So that's the source of funds to purchase drugs.

Then the article goes on to say that he told a friend that he hadn't used drugs since 2016. Remember, he had just come home from rehab when he stole his sister's phone in 2014. He went to rehab twice, so the second time worked.


Kohberger worked at a roadside pizzeria formerly called the New York Pizza Girl in 2013 and 2014, Rich Pasqua, a Pleasant Valley High School graduate a few years older than the suspect, told Fox News and the New York Times last month.


Pasqua, 31, who today works at a drug rehab clinic in the area, said he and Kohberger would use heroin together.


“He didn’t have many friends, so he would do anything to fit in,” Pasqua told Fox News. “He was a big heroin addict, and so was I. … I work in treatment and everything, but back then I was using, and so that’s how I know for a fact he was using. I got high with him a couple times.”

Thank you so much!

I used the article I linked in my post:

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article272531864.html

to research when and how long BK used drugs. The article is very long (and interesting!), and I now see that the author, Kevin Fixler, also discusses BK’s employment history later in his piece (lots of pictures and ads divide up the text).

Here are photos and captions included in the article, establishing when Kohberger was in high school:



Fixler writes that Kohberger worked briefly at the fish hatchery in 2011, and at the neighboring roadside pizzeria in 2013 and 2014.

Next door to Lynn’s is a roadside pizzeria, formerly called New York Pizza Girl. Kohberger worked there in 2013 and 2014, Rich Pasqua, a Pleasant Valley High School graduate a few years older than the suspect, told Fox News and The New York Times last month. Pasqua did not return Statesman requests for an interview.

Next door to Lynn’s is a roadside pizzeria, formerly called New York Pizza Girl. Kohberger worked there in 2013 and 2014, Rich Pasqua, a Pleasant Valley High School graduate a few years older than the suspect, told Fox News and The New York Times last month. Pasqua did not return Statesman requests for an interview.

Pasqua, 31, who today works at a drug rehab clinic in the area, said he and Kohberger would use heroin together. “He didn’t have many friends, so he would do anything to fit in,” Pasqua told Fox News. “He was a big heroin addict, and so was I. … I work in treatment and everything, but back then I was using, and so that’s how I know for a fact he was using. I got high with him a couple times.”

Charles Conklin, 61, owns the building the pizzeria occupied, as well as the neighboring fish hatchery that includes a stocked lake where people pay to fish for a variety of trout and bass. In the summer of 2011, Kohberger briefly worked there a few months as well, cleaning people’s catch, Conklin recalled and Kohberger wrote on a school district job application obtained by the Statesman.

Earlier in the article, Fixler states that BK was smoking marijuana and started heroin in high school.

As an upperclassman, Kohberger started spending time with another group of high school kids with whom she and her friends didn’t gel, Casey Arntz recalled.

“Honestly, I feel he was looking for validation, and that’s why he fell into that crowd,” she told the Statesman in a phone interview. “And honestly, it’s why he fell into the whole drug scene.”

Jeremy Saba, a neighbor two houses from Kohberger’s childhood home, was part of that group and introduced Kohberger to heroin, Baylis, Casey and Thomas Arntz said.

Between Kohberger’s frequent invites to smoke marijuana, he told Casey Arntz in March 2013 that he finished his online school requirements early, according to screenshots of Facebook messages that Arntz provided to the Statesman. He was looking forward to college that August, Kohberger wrote.

In high school, Kohberger also started using heroin with classmate Ashley Flugel, Thomas Arntz said.

Both Saba and Flugel later died of accidental drug overdoses.

Kohberger claimed to stop using heroin in 2016:

In May 2018, Kohberger told Baylis in messages on Facebook that he hadn’t used drugs in two years, according to screenshots Baylis shared with The New York Times. “I only used when I was in a deep suicidal state,” The Times reported Kohberger wrote to Baylis. “I have since really learned a lot. Not a person alive could convince me to use it.”

Interestingly, on his November 10, 2015 job application to the Pleasantville School District, Kohberger listed in the employment history only two jobs: his job as a fish cutter at Big Brown Fish and Pay Lakes from 03/01/2011 to 10/01/2011, and his job as a meat wrapper at BJ’s Wholesale Club from 03/01/2015 to 07/15/2015.



Nice employment for a future vegan IMO, and no mention of his job at the New York Pizza Girl. He had to supply his supervisor’s name and phone number, so that could explain the omission.

Full job application:

https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2023/06/BK-Application-redacted.pdf

In case this link is not accepted due to the source, this Newsweek article discusses the application:

Bryan Kohberger self-assessment form reveals new details about suspect

 

[PinkParis2052]

As @MassGuy let us know yesterday afternoon by sharing a screenshot of the Current Case Summary, Anne Taylor submitted the Defendant’s Evidence in Support of Offer of Proof RE: Alternative Perpetrators by the deadline (last Friday, May 23).

View attachment 589705

It doesn’t show up on the Idaho Cases of Interest page since it is sealed. If you only check that page, it’s not obvious that the motion and order to seal exist, either, since they are simply labeled Motion and Order to Seal Defendants Evidence.

Here’s the order to seal Taylor’s evidence in support of there being alternate perpetrators:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/5272025_Order_Sealing_Defs_Evidence_in_Support_of_Offer_of_Proof_RE_Alternate_Perpetrators_and_Exhibits.pdf

I had checked the Current Case Summary each day since the evidence was due, so I’m pretty sure it didn’t appear on the page until yesterday (two days after the Memorial Day holiday), when @MassGuy gave everyone the heads up.

So now we wait. Does Hippler accept the evidence as admissible? Will he wait to decide until the June 18 hearing.

Judge Hippler will probably wait to decide after the June 18 2025 hearing which will probably be a closed hearing. IMO.

 

[Fleur-de-lis]

Wondering:
Whose blood was on the chair in Xana's room and in what amount?
Did BK also have a burner phone or phones he used, perhaps to communicate on the dark web or with other evil individuals?
Was "Was anyone else arrested?" question (paraphrase) a purposeful red herring, or had BK been in contact with others interested in his deadly plan?
Was BK actually maintaining his sobriety, or was he misusing substances again?
I feel the working with dead meat (the fish place and then as a meat wrapper) is...interesting, but perhaps just the kind of entry-level job typical of the area.
Did he start using drugs to try to quiet his thoughts/fix his mental unhealth?
Some questions I can't ask here, but I hope the prosecution will ask them.

MOO

Edited to add 2 remarks.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

I can't imagine we'll have a decision until several days after that hearing.

Judge Hippler will probably wait to decide after the June 18 2025 hearing which will probably be a closed hearing. IMO.

Anne Taylor submitted evidence for her offer of proof of alternate perpetrators on May 23, the same day that she submitted this motion to seal the Defendant’s Objection to Court’s Request for Defense to Submit Redacted Copy of Ex Parte Filing (to the State):

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/5232025_Motion_to_Seal_Defs_Obj_to_Courts_Request_for_Defense_to_Submit_Redacted_Copy_of_Ex_Parte_Filing.pdf

And here’s the Court’s ruling to seal AT’s objection:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/5272025_Order_Sealing_Defs_Objection_to_Courts_Rqst_for_Defense_to_Submit_Redacted_Copy_of_Ex_Parte_Filing.pdf

According to Google AI:

An ex parte filing is a legal proceeding where only one party is present or represented, and the other party is not notified or given a chance to be heard. The term "ex parte" comes from Latin and means "from one party".

I assume AT discussed the admissibility of her evidence for alternate perpetrators during an ex parte meeting with Judge Hippler on May 23, and that the State will have access to her evidence filing. So why doesn’t AT want to share a redacted copy of the ex parte filing, as well?

IANAL, so are my assumptions wrong? Surely the State has to prepare for the June 18 hearing, or are they not even allowed to attend that hearing either? Does the prosecution have no say in whether AT can introduce alternate perpetrators during the trial?

 

[DizzyB]

Thank you so much!

I used the article I linked in my post:

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article272531864.html

to research when and how long BK used drugs. The article is very long (and interesting!), and I now see that the author, Kevin Fixler, also discusses BK’s employment history later in his piece (lots of pictures and ads divide up the text).

Here are photos and captions included in the article, establishing when Kohberger was in high school:

View attachment 589735
View attachment 589736
Fixler writes that Kohberger worked briefly at the fish hatchery in 2011, and at the neighboring roadside pizzeria in 2013 and 2014.

Next door to Lynn’s is a roadside pizzeria, formerly called New York Pizza Girl. Kohberger worked there in 2013 and 2014, Rich Pasqua, a Pleasant Valley High School graduate a few years older than the suspect, told Fox News and The New York Times last month. Pasqua did not return Statesman requests for an interview.




Earlier in the article, Fixler states that BK was smoking marijuana and started heroin in high school.





Both Saba and Flugel later died of accidental drug overdoses.

Kohberger claimed to stop using heroin in 2016:



Interestingly, on his November 10, 2015 job application to the Pleasantville School District, Kohberger listed in the employment history only two jobs: his job as a fish cutter at Big Brown Fish and Pay Lakes from 03/01/2011 to 10/01/2011, and his job as a meat wrapper at BJ’s Wholesale Club from 03/01/2015 to 07/15/2015.

View attachment 589734

Nice employment for a future vegan IMO, and no mention of his job at the New York Pizza Girl. He had to supply his supervisor’s phone number, so that could explain the omission.

Full job application:

https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2023/06/BK-Application-redacted.pdf

In case this link is not accepted due to the source, this article discusses the application:

Bryan Kohberger self-assessment form reveals new details about suspect

“In May 2018, Kohberger told Baylis in messages on Facebook that he hadn’t used drugs in two years, according to screenshots Baylis shared with The New York Times. “I only used when I was in a deep suicidal state,” The Times reported Kohberger wrote to Baylis. “I have since really learned a lot. Not a person alive could convince me to use it.”

He seems to be very black and white. He was using heroin, but he was then absolutely positive he would never use it again. I guess he was sure he would never be suicidal as well. One can always aspire to remain clean, but most people I know are aware that they can slip and are on guard for it. Relapses happen.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Yes! Just because BK didn’t buy the replacement knife on Amazon, doesn’t mean he didn’t buy it elsewhere.

Also, if BK kept the murder weapon, then why would he search for a replacement knife on Amazon?

I guess he might have wanted a spare knife in case he had to suddenly dispose of the murder weapon but still wanted to murder at will.

Or perhaps he needed a replacement knife so he could enshrine (but not bury) his original murder weapon, never planning to use it again.

Either of these scenarios could explain how LE found the murder weapon at BK’s family home, yet he searched for (but didn’t buy) a replacement.

JMO

My first thought would be that he knew his original knife purchase could be tracked, and his thinking might be that if he were questioned by LE about his ownership of a knife similar to that used in the crime, he could produce the newly-bought one, which would of course have no crime-related evidence on it.

Of course, why he would expect the earlier knife purchase to be findable but his search for a replacement not to be, makes no sense, so maybe this whole idea is false. MOO

 

[Justice101]

As far as AT asking to enter other possible suspects in the trial, it would probably be random criminals who A) knifed their victims, B) were known to have broken in to college girls houses, 3) people who fit a particular profile. Probably ZERO real evidence provided... just people who fit the characteristics.... AT hoping this resonates to create doubt with a jury.

SODDI won't work here. IF that is allowed to be entered by the defense, I would love to see the prosecution pick that apart from a scientific and evidence stand point. Hey, it's a long shot but I don't think the judge will allow it without some sort of proof or evidence.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Yes, especially after watching Gray Hughes’s final animated re-enactment. It’s heartbreaking to think of all the what-ifs.

What if Kohberger had turned back to Pullman after spying the Door Dash driver?

What if he had responded to his Korean office mate’s overtures and developed a healthy relationship with her?

And what if he had reached out for help instead of researching Ted Bundy’s methods? After all, he knew something was wrong with him since his alleged teenage Tapatalk musings.

And he’s known ever since then. As stated in the May 9 Dateline episode, at 2:58 am on December 15 (the same day he was later pulled over while driving with his dad in Indiana), Kohberger watched a video on his phone with this quote:



IMO

I don't think BK is capable of healthy romantic relationships with women.

 

[Megnut]

Anne Taylor submitted evidence for her offer of proof of alternate perpetrators on May 23, the same day that she submitted this motion to seal the Defendant’s Objection to Court’s Request for Defense to Submit Redacted Copy of Ex Parte Filing (to the State):

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/5232025_Motion_to_Seal_Defs_Obj_to_Courts_Request_for_Defense_to_Submit_Redacted_Copy_of_Ex_Parte_Filing.pdf

And here’s the Court’s ruling to seal AT’s objection:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/5272025_Order_Sealing_Defs_Objection_to_Courts_Rqst_for_Defense_to_Submit_Redacted_Copy_of_Ex_Parte_Filing.pdf

According to Google AI:



I assume AT discussed the admissibility of her evidence for alternate perpetrators during an ex parte meeting with Judge Hippler on May 23, and that the State will have access to her evidence filing. So why doesn’t AT want to share a redacted copy of the ex parte filing, as well?

IANAL, so are my assumptions wrong? Surely the State has to prepare for the June 18 hearing, or are they not even allowed to attend that hearing either? Does the prosecution have no say in whether AT can introduce alternate perpetrators during the trial?

She is managing the time clock.

No one else did this. If AT had actual evidence that BK didn't do it, she would have led with that, not buried it under time, motions, Sy Ray. And LE should be all over it because convicting the wrong man leaves the right man out there, able to strike again.

AT is going to name someone who maybe woulda coulda or even doubt they woulda, and IMO is hoping to hurdle over the judge's objections, with words not legs, speed not advising accuracy, in the hopes of gaining latitude to question LE on the stand and make them look bad, like there was this legitimate other person LE never considered, who could have. She doesn't want to give them time to close any gaps.

AT to LE on the stand: are you aware of [individual]? Are you aware of [incident]? Did you test his/her DNA? Why not? Are you aware that he/she lives close to [a location]? Drives a car? Has a history?

In order to make LE look like they rushed to judgment, ignoring viable leads and other suspects.

IMO it won't work but it won't stop her from trying.

JMO

 

[PunishThenForgive]

It's a strange thing, that a defendant enjoys the presumption of innocence while the defense tries to paint a third party without it.

JMO

Exactly! Let the defense attorneys of anyone accused by AT (if anyone bothers to follow up on the accusations) assert their presumption of innocence. Apparently, it’s a dog-eat-dog world out in defense land.

I found this article:

Why Do Prosecutors and Defense Attorneys Have Different Ethical Duties?

which nicely lays out the different obligations of the prosecution and defense:

Prosecutors are tasked with seeking justice, while defense attorneys are tasked with ensuring their clients receive a fair trial.

Apparently, some defense attorneys interpret their additional obligations to “zealously” defend their clients and to secure the “best possible outcome” for them to mean “the end justifies the means,” as long as those means are technically legal (however morally reprehensible they may be).

 

[Ghostwheel]

does anything think if XK would have played dead after the initial attack she may have survived?

That depends on if she COULD have played dead. If she was attacked before the hallway and got away to run to the bedroom to close the door (but didn't get it closed or didn't make it), that would be instinctual. Get away. Or maybe even protect Ethan. I don't think a mind would be thinking of much else at that point. If she were lying on the floor moaning because she was mortally wounded, can one NOT moan if you are all but deceased already? (I don't know the answer to that). But even besides that, if she were badly wounded enough playing dead may still have resulted in being dead.

So imo, probably would not have helped in this particular situation, but since I don't know all the facts I can not say.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

I don't think BK is capable of healthy romantic relationships with women.

I agree, just like he was incapable of asking for help IMO.

 

[seasideForest]

What if he had responded to his Korean office mate’s overtures and developed a healthy relationship with her?

I imagine it's fortunate for his office mate that he did not respond. Otherwise she might not be alive anymore. I don't think developing a healthy relationship with her (or in fact with anybody) would have been possible for BK.
All JMO