4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #98

[MassGuy]

Yes, lots of college students drink too much although it's not clear the witness spent time with KG that night or even knew very her well. I hadn't assumed the witness was definitely under the influence though until I read she said her memory was affected by alcohol.

I would like to know more about the actual interview before I find her credible. I still think she sounded coached in what has been reported.
MOO

That's one hell of an allegation. What would be the benefit of her being "coached." They had no leads, no suspect, and the priority would be understanding what exactly went on that night. That makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

[Arkay]

Again, They can say that and not be lying because he is literally innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. I don't think this is as big a deal as some people like to think. He just factually is innocent until he is convicted. MOO

Yes, absolutely, in the American justice system he is indeed factually innocent, until and unless 12 jurors have heard all the evidence and render their verdict.

Naturally that does not prohibit those of us on a discussion board from making inferences based on what circumstantial evidence has been revealed thus far.

In my case, for example, I infer that this royal battle on the part of the defense to force the elimination of the DNA results is an implication that the DNA results are indeed “no bueno” for their client.

Time will tell.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think the last listed of the 4 aggravating factors by the State in seeking the Death Penalty in this case is telling:

<snipped & BBM>

Prosecutors have identified four aggravating factors in Kohberger's case, which are "at the time the murder was committed, the defendant also committed another murder;" "the murder was especially heinous, atrocious or cruel, manifesting exceptional depravity;" "by the murder, or circumstances surrounding its commission, the defendant exhibited utter disregard for human life;" and "the defendant, by his conduct, whether such conduct was before, during or after the commission of the murder at hand, has exhibited a propensity to commit murder which will probably constitute a continuing threat to society."

Bryan Kohberger's request in Idaho murder case sparks criticism from judge

JMO

 

[joe jones]

He has been very fortunate to have been given these attorneys, they are doing the best they can with what they have. The challenge of the memory and recollection of the surviving witness is a good area to attack, if she gave different answers when questioned means defence can argue her testimony is flawed when she states what the man she saw looked like, it also goes to the timeline.
If she had been drinking a lot, if she had had been woke up from a drunk sleep I doubt she was in the best frame of mind to remember everything she heard or saw that night or the order they happened in, add to that the horror of the next day and I would expect her memory to try to fill in the gaps from the previous evening.
I feel such empathy for her, as she knows she will have to testify, and she knows his defence team will be ready to question everything she has said, as they should in my opinion he is facing DP and he should have a vigorous defence but it will be very tough for her. I expect she just wants it over and done with now.
4 IGG searches was a big surprise to me.

 

[jepop]

Yes, lots of college students drink too much although it's not clear the witness spent time with KG that night or even knew very her well. I hadn't assumed the witness was definitely under the influence though until I read she said her memory was affected by alcohol.

I would like to know more about the actual interview before I find her credible. I still think she sounded coached in what has been reported.
MOO

How does the summary of some information DM provided to le at interviews which was later included to support the PCA *sound* coached? Coached for what purpose? She was interviewed in the aftermath of the homicides when le had no suspect. Unless you are suggesting le interviewed her after BK was identified and coached her to provide a description to fit the suspect? If so, that's speculation which really doesn't have a basis at all imo. Not from the latest hearings and not from any other hearings or docs. Nor from msm. Jmo

 

[joe jones]

Here's part of her argument: AG Jeff Nye's reply is important, but I couldn't post it all due to the 20% rule.

<snipped>

Taylor alleged that officials had not obtained a warrant for several phases of the search that led to the IGG work.
"In this case, if society is not ready to support suppression of every bit of DNA when the government does not have a warrant and searches it, there is no privacy right left," Taylor said.

District Judge Steven Hippler, who presided over the proceeding, asked Taylor if she knew of any cases that support that argument.

"I do not have any cases that hold that, nor do I have any to the contrary that say that's not the case," Taylor said.

Bryan Kohberger's request in Idaho murder case sparks criticism from judge

There are very few cases pertaining to use of IGG as it is such a new forensic tool, there will be others and defence attorneys will be watching this case closely to see how judge rules, IGG will be used by LE with more frequency so this case will be one of the first that really asks the court to rule as to where the expectation of privacy falls and what limits are to be placed on LE if they wish to use IGG.

 

[NCWatcher]

That's one hell of an allegation. What would be the benefit of her being "coached." They had no leads, no suspect, and the priority would be understanding what exactly went on that night. That makes absolutely no sense to me.

It sounds that way to me with what has been reported especially with the additional recent information.sybebit won't sound that way at trial.
MOO

 

[NCWatcher]

How does the summary of some information DM provided to le at interviews which was later included to support the PCA *sound* coached? Coached for what purpose? She was interviewed in the aftermath of the homicides when le had no suspect. Unless you are suggesting le interviewed her after BK was identified and coached her to provide a description to fit the suspect? If so, that's speculation which really doesn't have a basis at all imo. Not from the latest hearings and not from any other hearings or docs. Nor from msm. Jmo

Pushing someone to remember when she says she can't seems iffy to me.
MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

How does the summary of some information DM provided to le at interviews which was later included to support the PCA *sound* coached? Coached for what purpose? She was interviewed in the aftermath of the homicides when le had no suspect. Unless you are suggesting le interviewed her after BK was identified and coached her to provide a description to fit the suspect? If so, that's speculation which really doesn't have a basis at all imo. Not from the latest hearings and not from any other hearings or docs. Nor from msm. Jmo

Because she helped identify BK before anyone knew who he was it carries enormous weight.

Her physical description of him is great evidence. A witness and DNA. Extremely meaningful to a jury.

[PDF]

Effects of DNA and Eyewitness Evidence on Juror Decisions​

DNA evidence elicited more guilty verdicts, and jurors were more confident in their verdict. We discuss these results in light of the 2-routes-to-persuasion theory.

2 Cents

 

[SpiderFalcon]

He has been very fortunate to have been given these attorneys, they are doing the best they can with what they have. The challenge of the memory and recollection of the surviving witness is a good area to attack, if she gave different answers when questioned means defence can argue her testimony is flawed when she states what the man she saw looked like, it also goes to the timeline.
If she had been drinking a lot, if she had had been woke up from a drunk sleep I doubt she was in the best frame of mind to remember everything she heard or saw that night or the order they happened in, add to that the horror of the next day and I would expect her memory to try to fill in the gaps from the previous evening.
I feel such empathy for her, as she knows she will have to testify, and she knows his defence team will be ready to question everything she has said, as they should in my opinion he is facing DP and he should have a vigorous defence but it will be very tough for her. I expect she just wants it over and done with now.
4 IGG searches was a big surprise to me.

I have been thinking about this: AT WILLFULLY read from the police interview with DM, there were motions filed to seal information that wasn't going to be used in the trial, I wonder if perhaps DM IS NOT going to testify. If her statement via interview IS NOT part of the State's case. And AT GOT PART OF IT IN, in open court. I'm still very upset about this, and lost all respect for AT. JMO, IMO, pure speculation

 

[Cool Cats]

Pushing someone to remember when she says she can't seems iffy to me.
MOO

An attorney will hand the witness the exact word for word statement on paper that was written when the witness gave their testimony to the police right after the crime.

Sometimes they still may not remember but it is powerful evidence that they did remember at the time of the crime when they gave their statement.

2 Cents

 

[Cool Cats]

I have been thinking about this: AT WILLFULLY read from the police interview with DM, there were motions filed to seal information that wasn't going to be used in the trial, I wonder if perhaps DM IS NOT going to testify. If her statement via interview IS NOT part of the State's case. And AT GOT PART OF IT IN, in open court. I'm still very upset about this, and lost all respect for AT. JMO, IMO, pure speculation

I believe DM's description of the man in the house is critical to the trial. It lead to BK becoming a person of interest because his license photo and licence descriptIon matched DM's stated features. And his car looked similar in the photos to the car they were searching for.

I believe DM will be called as an important witness who was on the scene. People who discover crime scenes are actually considered witnesses.

2 Cents

 

[MassGuy]

I have been thinking about this: AT WILLFULLY read from the police interview with DM, there were motions filed to seal information that wasn't going to be used in the trial, I wonder if perhaps DM IS NOT going to testify. If her statement via interview IS NOT part of the State's case. And AT GOT PART OF IT IN, in open court. I'm still very upset about this, and lost all respect for AT. JMO, IMO, pure speculation

I think the prosecution will call her. If they don’t, the defense might in order to cast doubt on elements of the prosecution’s case. It’s best to get ahead of that.

Drunk or not, I think she helps the prosecution more than the defense. Her description wound up being accurate, based on what little she was able to see.

 

[joe jones]

I have been thinking about this: AT WILLFULLY read from the police interview with DM, there were motions filed to seal information that wasn't going to be used in the trial, I wonder if perhaps DM IS NOT going to testify. If her statement via interview IS NOT part of the State's case. And AT GOT PART OF IT IN, in open court. I'm still very upset about this, and lost all respect for AT. JMO, IMO, pure speculation

I expect her to be called as a witness, the two survivors will be very important to timeline, as they have to place all 4 murdered victims in the house, in there respective bedrooms and the times, the murdered victims have to be home and in bedrooms at times that match the white car timeline, only surviving victims can do so,
The door dash delivery is time stamped but the survivors can testify to whether they heard XK going into kitchen, did they hear her phone as she was on tik tok etc,
I think it will be very important for the state to be able to orientate the victims in time and place just before the horror began, and that it was a normal night until it wasn't,
I think AT is an exceptional lawyer, and she should use everything at her disposal for her defence, she has one client and her only job is to defend him, any sympathy she may have for the survivors has to be left at the door of the courtroom,

 

[Nila Aella]

Because she helped identify BK before anyone knew who he was it carries enormous weight.

Her physical description of him is great evidence. A witness and DNA. Extremely meaningful to a jury.

[PDF]

Effects of DNA and Eyewitness Evidence on Juror Decisions​

DNA evidence elicited more guilty verdicts, and jurors were more confident in their verdict. We discuss these results in light of the 2-routes-to-persuasion theory.

2 Cents

I believe DM's description of the man in the house is critical to the trial. It lead to BK becoming a person of interest because his license photo and licence descriptIon matched DM's stated features. And his car looked similar in the photos to the car they were searching for.

I believe DM will be called as an important witness who was on the scene. People who discover crime scenes are actually considered witnesses.

2 Cents

This is the description as stated by AJ (prosecution) in this last hearing.

Someone wearing all black
A mask with only a portion of their face showing
Male
White
Voice she did not recognize
Slim, skinny, lean build
Person was taller than she is ( she is around 5'8")
2:02:06

200:27 Did not recognize BK photo

PCA
figure clad in black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose walking towards her. D.M. described the figure as 5' I 0" or taller, male, not very muscular, but athletically built with bushy eyebrows.
D.M. did not state that she recognized the male
Page 4/5

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/122922+Affidavit+-+Exhibit+A+-+Statement+of+Brett-Payne.pdf

JMO
Edit DM height part to clarify that is her height

 

[MassGuy]

I was curious about the Amazon warrant, and the dates LE was requesting information for. I'm more convinced than ever that the knife was purchased on there, based on the records they wanted about 8 months prior to the murders. Whatever it is, it's going to be related to the murders.

He would have been in the fantasy stage at this point, with a murder plot likely only in its infancy stage. Likely no firm location, target, or plan. He wouldn't be concerned about leaving a trail. The latter period would have been just before and after the murders, perhaps some incriminating pre/post offense stuff (tyvek suit, gloves, cleaning products or something).

The investigating police in Latah County, Idaho, asked the court to order Amazon to provide "detailed customer click activity pertaining to knives and accessories" between March 20 and March 30, 2022, and Nov. 1 through Dec. 6 that same year, the search warrant shows. It appears that the tech company complied with the subsequent court order as it passed information over.

Bryan Kohberger's Internet History Could Provide Case Evidence

Police sought his online shopping records, viewing history, shopping wish list, payment information and emails.

www.newsweek.com

 

[mmeynstyn]

I was curious about the Amazon warrant, and the dates LE was requesting information for. I'm more convinced than ever that the knife was purchased on there, based on the records they wanted about 8 months prior to the murders. Whatever it is, it's going to be related to the murders.

He would have been in the fantasy stage at this point, with a murder plot likely only in its infancy stage. Likely no firm location, target, or plan. He wouldn't be concerned about leaving a trail. The latter period would have been just before and after the murders, perhaps some incriminating pre/post offense stuff (tyvek suit, gloves, cleaning products or something).

The investigating police in Latah County, Idaho, asked the court to order Amazon to provide "detailed customer click activity pertaining to knives and accessories" between March 20 and March 30, 2022, and Nov. 1 through Dec. 6 that same year, the search warrant shows. It appears that the tech company complied with the subsequent court order as it passed information over.

Bryan Kohberger's Internet History Could Provide Case Evidence

Police sought his online shopping records, viewing history, shopping wish list, payment information and emails.

www.newsweek.com

Interesting....."between March 20 and March 30, 2022" seems very specific. What did they know/find that would suggest that time frame I wonder?

 

[MassGuy]

Interesting....."between March 20 and March 30, 2022" seems very specific. What did they know/find that would suggest that time frame I wonder?

My thinking is maybe they had a broad list of purchases, but weren’t given specifics. So they then requested detailed information for the time periods where they saw incriminating orders.

 

[INfisherman]

JMO

You want to know what they think about BK? Well, they've made it a point to state on the record they believe that BK is innocent. Which is a big deal to say the least in my opinion.


All MOO

A bit behind, apologies.

I respect what you’re saying, however, why is it such a big deal? Both sides put their beliefs on record in every trial at some point. At the very least they do it during opening arguments. Nothing new or groundbreaking, really.

Some defense attorneys know their client is guilty, they have to deep down, but will still get up there & profess they believe their client is innocent of the charges against them. Often, they are just splitting hairs. Look at Bruce Cutler - I believe that’s his name - he professed John Gotti was innocent each & every time Gotti was charged for mafia-related crimes. The world knew differently but Cutler was good at his job & Gotti was a polarizing figure to many & turns out he wasn’t very innocent.

MOO

 

[Rileylively]

Yes, lots of college students drink too much although it's not clear the witness spent time with KG that night or even knew very her well. I hadn't assumed the witness was definitely under the influence though until I read she said her memory was affected by alcohol.

I would like to know more about the actual interview before I find her credible. I still think she sounded coached in what has been reported.
MOO

That part made me speculate whether or not that is the intended explanation for 911 not being called until many hours later. Somewhat like “I assumed it was just a bad dream and went back to sleep” kinda thing. The brain does some crazy things to protect itself when faced with adrenaline overload etc and will often times affect memory recollection.
Here’s an excerpt from The Neuroscience of Memory: Implications for the Courtroom
“Misunderstandings about memory can have effects on criminal cases even before they make it to court. The belief that confident, detailed memories are always accurate and reliable is contrary to research that suggests the opposite is possible — confidently recalled recollections can sometimes be inaccurate and real memories are not always highly confident and detailed. Especially in cases involving violence and high levels of stress, real traumatic memories — which can be disjointed — may sound unreliable to law enforcement personnel and to the general public and may therefore never make it to court. One striking example of this is that an estimated 86% of sexual assaults are never prosecuted on the grounds that the victim's testimony does not seem to be reliable.”