4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #99

[NCWatcher]

I believe he's to smug to cop a plea, even on the advice of his defense team. JMO.

Not sure what the phrase "cop a plea" exactly means here but I seriously doubt the state would offer or has offered a plea deal for BK to turn down. While I (and others) have said criminal prosecutions and trials aren't held mainly to benefit victims and their families, and prosecutors' actions in murder trials aren't directed by the victims' families, some of the families in this case have been pretty vocal about the need for a very public trial and the desire to see the death penalty imposed. (And obviously, any deal would have to take the death penalty off the table.) I don't think a plea deal, even though it would save a ton of taxpayer money and provide a guaranteed outcome, would be acceptable to those very vocal family members. And DAs are elected.
MOO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Agreed 100%.

IMO something about that night was different. Different than all his night driving star gazing trips. Turning his phone off signals it.

The loops? He wasn't driving aimlessly, wasn't in and out of multiple neighborhoods as if in search of a soft target. IMO he drove in a relatively direct route to that house that night. Then, for reasons he alone knows, he didn't park until the 4th approach. Maybe lights were on. Maybe there was foot traffic.

It also appears to be the case that he went directly to the top floor without prowling for valuables on the floor of entry. Still, it remains the case that, even if he went inside with an intention to hot prowl, he was prepared to use deadly force.

IMO he wasn't out hot-prowling that night. Rather, previous hot-prowling have him confidence for the manner in which he carried out this crime. Next level escalation.

JMO

My thinking is BK arrived at WSU at the beginning of the semester.
I think he had in his mind to pull off a showy perfect crime.
He needed to find a house to pull it off so he began cruising on the weekend looking for party houses. They aren’t hard to find driving around college campuses and he had two campuses close by. Add to that, it was the start of the semester and tons of new people floating around, and he could just walk in anywhere, join the party and scope things out. Drunk college students don’t care.
I think this is how he picked that house, so yes, he had been there before. He knew a group of girls lived there. I think the thing that threw him that night was Ethan Chapin being present. He was not expecting that and left sooner than planned. Without being startled by that I think he would have killed everyone in the house. Without being startled he would have had time to stand and marvel and make sure he wasn’t leaving anything behind, like a knife sheath.
That’s just the way I see it.

Opinion

Edit: typos

 

[MassGuy]

My thinking is BK arrived at WSU at the beginning of the semester.
I think he had in his mind to pull off a showy perfect crime.
He needed to find a house to pull it off so he began cruising on the weekend looking for party houses. They aren’t hard to find driving around college campuses and he had two campuses close by. Add to that, it was the start of the semester and tons of new people floating around, and he could just walk in anywhere, join the party and scope things out. Drunk college students don’t care.
I think this is how he picked that house, so yes, he had been there before. He knew a group of girls lived there. I think the thing that threw him that night was Ethan Chapin being present. He was not expecting that and left sooner than planned. Without being startled by that I think he would have killed everyone in the house. Without being startled he would have had time to stand and marvel and make sure he wasn’t leaving anything behind, like a knife sheath.
That’s just the way I see it.

Opinion

Edit: typos

I see it similarly. I think he did a lot of cruising, looking for the right target. He wouldn't necessarily have had a firm plan in his mind at this stage, but it would have developed over time. We differ in that I don't think he had gotten up close an personal with any of them (talked to them), at least not in that house. He just doesn't strike me as the type to do that, as I see him as an antisocial loner/loser.

So I think he had seen one of them one day (maybe followed her home, or just saw her around the house), and perhaps the plan started to take shape from there (Like the Jayme Closs case, just with much more planning). He surveilled the house, and had a good idea as to their typical movements, and what the area looked like on specific days and times (weekend nights especially).

I think this activity would have picked up as his stress increased, as I firmly believe his troubles as a TA were the trigger to this. I do believe he had been around the house, and knew where he was going to enter. It's entirely possible he did enter at some point prior, while the occupants were sleeping.

I think it's totally plausible that Ethan threw him off his game, and that this would have been even worse if not for that. I'm interested to know specifically where Ethan was located, and what his injuries were in comparison to the others.

 

[jepop]

Not sure what the phrase "cop a plea" exactly means here but I seriously doubt the state would offer or has offered a plea deal for BK to turn down. While I (and others) have said criminal prosecutions and trials aren't held mainly to benefit victims and their families, and prosecutors' actions in murder trials aren't directed by the victims' families, some of the families in this case have been pretty vocal about the need for a very public trial and the desire to see the death penalty imposed. (And obviously, any deal would have to take the death penalty off the table.) I don't think a plea deal, even though it would save a ton of taxpayer money and provide a guaranteed outcome, would be acceptable to those very vocal family members. And DAs are elected.
MOO

Whilst I tend to agree this is possible, I also believe that if a plea was ever to be offered BK would reject it. Jmo. I don't know exactly how these things work, if defense have an option to try and open plea negotiations first? If so, then I don't believe they have done so. If they have/or do and are rejected by the state, I'm assuming that a jury would never hear about it at guilt phase of trial because prejudicial? So that wouldn't be a reason for defense to avoid trying to negotiate a plea? That is of course if defense have that option, which idk why they shouldn't.

I suppose after the ( at present hypothetical) trial it will probably become public if anything plea related was attempted? JMO.

 

[mrjitty]

On your last points, I wasn't addressing the Pullman video, just AT's accusations that investigators deliberately sought to mislead judge by including those 11 late night/ early am phone pings in Moscow. We can agree to disagree. I think AT's argument is flawed and accusations unfounded. There is no reason why that info should have been excluded, given what was then known. Late night and early am was relevant. Jmo

ETA there is no omission argument for the 11 late night/ early am pings Imo. Investigators can't omit in the negative, ie info that wasn't there to begin with. The only rational argument would be for exclusion of the pings entirely. If AT was arguing for omission of other info re the prior phone pings then that appears flawed from a logical stand point. JMO

I kind of agree with your direction of travel here.

Reading the tea leaves of counsel's arguments pretrial is very hit and miss without the exhibits and getting to hear from the actual experts

For me, ATs arguments are the stuff of trial evidence, or pre-trial evidential hearings. Getting in to technical stuff about which way a car was moving feels out of scope in a probable cause phase.

It seems to me there is quite a lot of suspicion about the BKs movements and digital footprint. If the D can explain it away at trial well then that is good work by them.

But the idea this stuff is not at least suspicious in the PCA phase ... well of course AT will say that. But it feels to me like circumstantial evidence that you will want to include.

Let's see what the Judge says!

 

[Swansee]

As I recall, AT mentioned something along the lines that LE did not seize an iPad that was in the PA home, because it was in the common areas of the house. Is that right?
Is it then safe to assume that the knives and firearm etc that were seized were not in common areas, but in BK's bedroom in the house? Or am I jumping to conclusions/misremembering?

Replying to my own post since it's too late to edit.
I guess I was misremembering: the statement about the iPad was in the Defense's motion to suppress Apple, page 3:
"An iPad was located at the parents' home; but it was not seized because it was found in a common area."
So, I suppose this would indicate that the knives that were seized were in BK's room, since apparently LE were not seizing items in the common areas.
That's not quite the same as just a bunch of family kitchen knives. Whether BK is guilty or not, it would seem he has an interest in knives, which will probably not play in his favor.

 

[girlhasnoname]

The return shows items that LE was allowed to seize. Items detailed in the search warrant. Not all of the items left in the apartment.
JMO

The items recovered in the PA SW shows how much he brought home. It a lot IMO, more than just a typical 3 week Winter Break.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

They sure didn’t make him look any more innocent given the circumstances at the time. We’ve yet to even get to trial, so it’s a bit difficult to say the items, along with other evidence, won’t mean anything to a jury. One thing is certain, we shall see, unless he ends up folding & cops a plea to save his rear. He’s got around 5 months to consider things though.

MOO

This pompous murderer is going to take it all the way IMO. No plea for the world's smartest - yet dumbest criminal mastermind. Ego driven without feeling, his thoughts are 'Prove It'. I believe he will enjoy the attention, even if it is horrible and negative.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Whilst I tend to agree this is possible, I also believe that if a plea was ever to be offered BK would reject it. Jmo. I don't know exactly how these things work, if defense have an option to try and open plea negotiations first? If so, then I don't believe they have done so. If they have/or do and are rejected by the state, I'm assuming that a jury would never hear about it at guilt phase of trial because prejudicial? So that wouldn't be a reason for defense to avoid trying to negotiate a plea? That is of course if defense have that option, which idk why they shouldn't.

I suppose after the ( at present hypothetical) trial it will probably become public if anything plea related was attempted? JMO.

We found out a plea was offered at some point in the recent Delphi trial when the State's Prosecutor did an interview after the gag order was lifted. You could have knocked me over with a feather. Anyhow, that piece of convicted scum turned it down and now he's serving 130 years. Yay!

I believe BK would turn one down as well, but I don't think the State would even entertain it here unless it was to get the DP off the table. Plea for LWOP, but I don't see BK taking it. I could be wrong 100%, just a gut feeling.

MOO

 

[Kemug]

Is it possible that BK's father could talk him into accepting a plea deal? What do you think?

 

[girlhasnoname]

Is it possible that BK's father could talk him into accepting a plea deal? What do you think?

BK's father clearly loves and cares for him, but I don't believe BK has any genuine care or love for anyone else (as he stated in his chats, void of emotion, sees people as pieces of meat).

I don't think he'd heed any advice from his father if it was in opposition to his own thoughts.

jmo

 

[Nila Aella]

The items recovered in the PA SW shows how much he brought home. It a lot IMO, more than just a typical 3 week Winter Break.

JMO

The items in the home might not reflect what he brought home.
This is his parents home. Some items might have already been there.

JMO

 

[NCWatcher]

The items in the home might not reflect what he brought home.
This is his parents home. Some items might have already been there.

JMO

Quite true. It's possible some items did not belong to BK. For example, I'd think gloves and ski masks would be owned by lots of people living in cold climates (and in the aftermath of COVID.) It's also possible some items did belong to BK but he didn't "bring them home." Rather he left them behind when he moved to WA for grad school several months earlier.
MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

The items in the home might not reflect what he brought home.
This is his parents home. Some items might have already been there.

JMO

Maybe not, I still believe he cleared out his WSU apt and storage locker to the bare minimum with the intentions of not returning.

You don't agree, and that's okay. It's what keeps us all on our toes and thinking.

 

[Megnut]

Context matters.

Knives in a kitchen drawer, everyone has that.

Facemasks in the winter drawer with stocking caps, maybe everyone has that.

Latex gloves under the kitchen sink, not uncommon.

Knives, stocking cap in the same drawer? Now you're writing a horror movie...

Knives, face masks, latex gloves in a duffle bag....

Now you've got a kill kit.

I'm not saying that's how LE found it, but for them to be seized, they weren't likely in shared space so BK must have had them in his personal space.... and probably not right out in the open....

Context matters.

 JMO

 

[SortaSleuthy]

I see it similarly. I think he did a lot of cruising, looking for the right target. He wouldn't necessarily have had a firm plan in his mind at this stage, but it would have developed over time. We differ in that I don't think he had gotten up close an personal with any of them (talked to them), at least not in that house. He just doesn't strike me as the type to do that, as I see him as an antisocial loner/loser.

So I think he had seen one of them one day (maybe followed her home, or just saw her around the house), and perhaps the plan started to take shape from there (Like the Jayme Closs case, just with much more planning). He surveilled the house, and had a good idea as to their typical movements, and what the area looked like on specific days and times (weekend nights especially).

I think this activity would have picked up as his stress increased, as I firmly believe his troubles as a TA were the trigger to this. I do believe he had been around the house, and knew where he was going to enter. It's entirely possible he did enter at some point prior, while the occupants were sleeping.

I think it's totally plausible that Ethan threw him off his game, and that this would have been even worse if not for that. I'm interested to know specifically where Ethan was located, and what his injuries were in comparison to the others.

Yes, yes and yes!
In addition, IMO: I think he had been a peeper for a long time … in order to feed his sexual fantasies.

 

[NCWatcher]

Context matters.

Knives in a kitchen drawer, everyone has that.

Facemasks in the winter drawer with stocking caps, maybe everyone has that.

Latex gloves under the kitchen sink, not uncommon.

Knives, stocking cap in the same drawer? Now you're writing a horror movie...

Knives, face masks, latex gloves in a duffle bag....

Now you've got a kill kit.

I'm not saying that's how LE found it, but for them to be seized, they weren't likely in shared space so BK must have had them in his personal space.... and probably not right out in the open....

Context matters.

 JMO

Are you suggesting only the room BK was staying in at his parents' house was searched? IF LE could only seize things in BK's "personal space" (however that was legally defined in someone else's house) then it sounds like that's the only area they could search too. And that makes no sense to me.
MOO

 

[Megnut]

Are you suggesting only the room BK was staying in at his parents' house was searched? IF LE could only seize things in BK's "personal space" (however that was legally defined in someone else's house) then it sounds like that's the only area they could search too. And that makes no sense to me.
MOO

Obviously LE isn't going to seize everything. But items associated with BK. Kitchen knives from the kitchen silverware drawer, not likely. Of greatest interest would IMO be the room BK would have been staying in but I'm sure they searched the entire house.

JMO

 

[NCWatcher]

Obviously LE isn't going to seize everything. But items associated with BK. Kitchen knives from the kitchen silverware drawer, not likely. Of greatest interest would IMO be the room BK would have been staying in but I'm sure they searched the entire house.

JMO

I'd think knives in the kitchen would at least be examined. Expecting that BK kept everything he had (incriminating or not) in "his room" and/or in a duffle bag/suitcase seems unrealistic to me. And if only items "associated with BK" could be seized
1) Why search the entire house?
2) How would LE know if an item was associated with BK?
MOO

 

[Megnut]

I'd think knives in the kitchen would at least be examined. Expecting that BK kept everything he had (incriminating or not) in "his room" and/or in a duffle bag/suitcase seems unrealistic to me. And if only items "associated with BK" could be seized
1) Why search the entire house?
2) How would LE know if an item was associated with BK?
MOO

I'm not disagreeing. I think LE looked everywhere.

I'll be very interested to learn where they located the items they seized.

JMO