4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #99

[Charlot123]

DNA is a complicated graft. If my dad's DNA was in his Will I would have NO CLUE how to professionally verify this.

What would lawyers do? Hire scientists? Sounds ridiculous too me.

2 Cents

I would be better off comparing his 23 and me to my 23 and me where he is 98% Finnish and I am around 1/2 finish close to 48 %.

2 Cents

The question is, if he did DNA tests in 23@me and you did, too, if you are under one account, good. If not, he'd better bequest you, or your sibling, access to his account.

A bigger question is raised about 23@me itself. I hope it stays, but if not, is the information destroyed, sold, or do we have the right to extract it from a non-existing company?

It wasn't a question a decade ago because it was a DNA boom, but now such companies are databases. And databases should be regulated.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Definitely not advocating for BK here. I am confident he is the guy. I'm just saying his attorney's argument is not as silly or desperate or obviously wrong as it seems on its face. If the judge rules that the DNA sequence from the site is excluded because A. DNA is implied PHI and B. the FBI obtained it under false pretenses, then the whole case against him is gone. The attorney is at a minimum opening up an appellate challenge (and a pretty good one too, IMO).

JMO.

Automatic appeal especially on DP cases. I'm not worried.

 

[Cool Cats]

The question is, if he did DNA tests in 23@me and you did, too, if you are under one account, good. If not, he'd better

Better what?

We have a page showing all our cousins all over the world and under my Dad's name it SPECIFICALLY SAYS I AM HIS BIOLOGICAL DAUGHTER. UNDER MY NAME IT SPECIFICALLY SAYS HE IS MY BIOLOGICAL DAD.

It does point out the percentages of this.

2 Cents

Dad reassured me I have no siblings I do not know about.

 

[mrjitty]

The FBI is under no obligation follow the terms of service of the sites they used; those are merely company policies. I've seen multiple defense attorneys opine on this, and they say there's no argument here. Her best bet would have been to show that the FBI accessed his personal DNA upload, and when the judge asked her about that, she ignored the question, going with the weaker argument. This can't become a moot point soon enough.

right. BK is simply not a party to the TOS.

I think it's worth keeping in mind with other technological searches i.e digital, that the courts have imposed some constitutional limitations on those because you can see a slippy slope i.e they could harvest the data of 1000s of innocent people and go through their information looking for anything that took their fancy. As a society we don't want that.

That simply is not the case here. No one is harvesting millions of DNA profiles. Only the guilty person is going to impacted at the end of the day.

 

[INfisherman]

Dad reassured me I have no siblings I do not know about.

Doughnuts all over the world just let out a collective sigh of relief.

That simply is not the case here. No one is harvesting millions of DNA profiles. Only the guilty person is going to impacted at the end of the day.

Exactly. 100%.

 

[Charlot123]

Ownership of DNA information.

sbm @Charlot123
Snipped to focus on the one point, as I'm not sure I'm following.

Does ^ refer to a person having an atty draft clause to include in a will or trust to convey their "DNA information" ?

I'd appreciate link(s) if available. TiA. Anyone?

I don't know legal lingo. But something like "information about my genetic code as presented in (23@me, ancestry... you name it) format as well as my family tree and GEDCOM associated with said DNA".

When I bought first DNA sets, it was "three for two sales". I can't believe where we are ten years later. We are discussing the legality of comparing someone's DNA with others, and there also is a scandal because someone used investigative genealogy principles to target a small group. That shows me that DNA is, among others, an investigative tool, and that it contains verifiable independent information. Can we view it as the "subject" of databases? It is an interesting situation because for databases, it is a "code", but DNA itself is also "life."

I wonder if one day lawyers dealing with genetics will be a separate field, or just covered by medical law.

 

[Cool Cats]

Yah.

The octillion match of 27 zeros.
Witness description that cannot allow the defense to rule out BK.
We do not know but murder items may have a digital trail leading to them
In the 51 terabytes of data that was turned over to the defense there could be digital, video, witness, cell phone, cars, Amazon accounts, chat accounts, his car, texts, and much more that helps show BK's guilt.

We do not know so it will be very interesting at trial to see and study these things.2 Cents

right. BK is simply not a party to the TOS.

I think it's worth keeping in mind with other technological searches i.e digital, that the courts have imposed some constitutional limitations on those because you can see a slippy slope i.e they could harvest the data of 1000s of innocent people and go through their information looking for anything that took their fancy. As a society we don't want that.

That simply is not the case here. No one is harvesting millions of DNA profiles. Only the guilty person is going to impacted at the end of the day.

The octillion One​

2 Cents

​

 

[Arkay]

We are discussing the legality of comparing someone's DNA with others, and there also is a scandal because someone used investigative genealogy principles to target a small group. That shows me that DNA is, among others, an investigative tool, and that it contains verifiable independent information

SBM

I know that DNA has the ability for someone to track a person’s potential health issues.

That’s a matter though that is not germane for criminal investigation. The police don’t care if you are carrying a gene for cancer—-that’s a concern for health insurance.

As an investigative tool, however, I’m thrilled with DNA. It has solved cold cases, missing person’s cases, and has exonerated persons of interest who were innocent.

And yes indeed, it has disclosed and exposed those who are in fact guilty of crimes. In my estimation, it is a boon to all of us.

In this case, DNA has put a bullseye on the person who left his DNA behind, on a spot that wouldn’t be randomly touched, except by the person who was likely feverish in anticipation of getting his knife out to kill.

If the issue is privacy, I personally don’t think it intrudes on privacy any more than the Feds taking pictures of who shows up at a Mafia funeral.

JMO

 

[Charlot123]

right. BK is simply not a party to the TOS.

I think it's worth keeping in mind with other technological searches i.e digital, that the courts have imposed some constitutional limitations on those because you can see a slippy slope i.e they could harvest the data of 1000s of innocent people and go through their information looking for anything that took their fancy. As a society we don't want that.

That simply is not the case here. No one is harvesting millions of DNA profiles. Only the guilty person is going to impacted at the end of the day.

I am not debating "guilt" now, i am thinking of what we may be opening ourselves to.

"Harvesting" may not be a precise term. Any processing lab "harvests" biological information from millions of users daily. The word is, "processing closed and private information of unsuspecting users of a commercial company for reasons of comparison and identifying matches."

If there is a data breach into a credit card company, we are scared because it gives access to our SSN numbers. Our genetic code defines us far better than our SSN. There are laws protecting us. But not here.

Today, I see several cases of DNA used for identification (good), one case for targeting a group (very bad), and some, that are in a very, very "grey area." I think the ultimate answer will be, what source, or database was used. Previously used Gedmatch was so odd (for people who used it) that it is not surprising. And, it was public. You really can't call its members "paying customers." But an expensive private database (owning two more databases itself) is another entity.

Mostly, I am excited to see a potentially new area of law emerging.

 

[DizzyB]

SBM

I know that DNA has the ability for someone to track a person’s potential health issues.

That’s a matter though that is not germane for criminal investigation. The police don’t care if you are carrying a gene for cancer—-that’s a concern for health insurance.

As an investigative tool, however, I’m thrilled with DNA. It has solved cold cases, missing person’s cases, and has exonerated persons of interest who were innocent.

And yes indeed, it has disclosed and exposed those who are in fact guilty of crimes. In my estimation, it is a boon to all of us.

In this case, DNA has put a bullseye on the person who left his DNA behind, on a spot that wouldn’t be randomly touched, except by the person who was likely feverish in anticipation of getting his knife out to kill.

If the issue is privacy, I personally don’t think it intrudes on privacy any more than the Feds taking pictures of who shows up at a Mafia funeral.

JMO

I feel like he meticulously cleaned that sheath as part of his process in committing the perfect crime. I am curious as to how that DNA remained under the snap-I wonder if he only handled the sheath with gloved hands, maybe he had a hard time unsnapping gloved. Did a glove rip? Or did he handle it repeatedly and then wipe it clean?

 

[INfisherman]

I feel like he meticulously cleaned that sheath as part of his process in committing the perfect crime. I am curious as to how that DNA remained under the snap-I wonder if he only handled the sheath with gloved hands, maybe he had a hard time unsnapping gloved. Did a glove rip? Or did he handle it repeatedly and then wipe it clean?

Glove/sleeve may have been separated & wrist brushed against it at some point. Could have been any number of things. Last night on 20/20 a killer wore cotton gloves & his DNA was found inside pockets of the victim, left while taking the victim’s wallet. It was speculated it may have been sweat. How ever it occurred (in ID), I don’t believe the killer was aware of it.

MOO

ETA clarity

 

[Cool Cats]

Doughnuts all over the world just let out a collective sigh of relief.


Exactly. 100%.

Fisher:

No need to truck in 100's of doughnut trucks to my house. Good.

Yah.

The octillion match of 27 zeros.
Witness description that cannot allow the defense to rule out BK.
We do not know but murder items may have a digital trail leading to them
In the 51 terabytes of data that was turned over to the defense there could be digital, video, witness, cell phone, cars, Amazon accounts, chat accounts, his car, texts, and much more that helps show BK's guilt.

We do not know so it will be very interesting at trial to see and study these things.2 Cents

​

​

Glove/sleeve may have been separated & wrist brushed against it at some point. Could have been any number of things. Last night on 20/20 a killer wore cotton gloves & his DNA was found inside pockets of the victim, left while taking the victim’s wallet. It was speculated it may have been sweat. How ever it occurred (in ID), I don’t believe the killer was aware of it.

MOO

ETA clarity

Very interesting. All I think of are fingerprints but it could be skin cells from anywhere on his body.

Interesting.

 

[Cool Cats]

Glove/sleeve may have been separated & wrist brushed against it at some point. Could have been any number of things. Last night on 20/20 a killer wore cotton gloves & his DNA was found inside pockets of the victim, left while taking the victim’s wallet. It was speculated it may have been sweat. How ever it occurred (in ID), I don’t believe the killer was aware of it.

MOO

ETA clarity

Yup.

All I think of are fingerprints but the skin cells could have come from somewhere else on his body.

 

[INfisherman]

Yup.

All I think of are fingerprints but the skin cells could have come from somewhere else on his body.

Exactly. Might be the result of a struggle, accidental brushing against skin or missed during a wipe down.

 

[Balthazar]

Party house - DNA on bannister and on a glove "found" by a disgraced YT detective.

Blood on the bannister in a house where there were stabbings and the glove with the blood outside. A network actually live streamed most of the CSI yard search. CSI found many things in the yard. There may be a different glove than what the YouTube detective found on Nov. 28, 2022. But we'll have to wait for the trial. IMO, both blood DNA (bannister and glove) are possible evidence, both should have been tested completely including attempting IGG. Since they were not, this will be used as reasonable doubt. All JMO.

 

[LinasK]

Tonight's episode of 20/20 involves touch DNA, in case anyone is interested. A man was murdered, and his wallet stolen. Police swabbed the victim's pocket, because they figured the killer would have reached in there to remove it.

All they had to go on at the time was a white Ford Focus, which was seen driving suspiciously around the time of the murder. They chased down those cars, but to no avail. Eventually they got a CODIS hit on the DNA, and further research indicated that the contributor was involved in a traffic stop a couple weeks after the murders. That car was also a white Ford Focus (he was the passenger).

Things snowballed from there...

What does that case sound like? White car spotted near the scene of a murder. Touch DNA on an item the killer had to touch...

ETA: In that one, the odds of the DNA matching anyone other than the suspect was 1 in 270 quadrillion. In this case, we're talking about 5 quintillion. A quintillion, is a billion times larger.

Testing has come a long way in the past 15 years.

I watched it and wondered if I should mention it on this thread... And it was all about Touch DNA- plenty to go on and convict. And in the 20/20 case, the killer WAS convicted on his Touch DNA, and he'd worn gloves, but they were cotton ones that were permeable. Ooops!

 

[LinasK]

BBM

Well, luckily, criminal cases aren't decided by majority vote.

Actually they are: the majority of the jury.

 

[MassGuy]

Blood on the bannister in a house where there were stabbings and the glove with the blood outside. A network actually live streamed most of the CSI yard search. CSI found many things in the yard. There may be a different glove than what the YouTube detective found on Nov. 28, 2022. But we'll have to wait for the trial. IMO, both blood DNA (bannister and glove) are possible evidence, both should have been tested completely including attempting IGG. Since they were not, this will be used as reasonable doubt. All JMO.

All indications are that DNA only provided partial profiles, which weren't even eligible to be uploaded to CODIS. That means you're never going to be able to link a single person to those samples. Again, they knew they had the killer's DNA on that sheath.

Hypothetically, even if those samples were of a quality to allow for that type of testing, you're talking about finite resources here. I have never, not once, encountered a case where law enforcement sent off more than one sample for IGG. That would expand the investigation to an insane scope, and only serve to muddy the waters.

These guys always work alone, and all indications are that Kohberger did. In some alternate universe where he did have accomplices, that would have been discovered by now. The only use for that DNA would be for exclusionary purposes.

We only have the defense side of this right now, but there's no way this stuff was ignored, especially early on when their focus was inside that house, and those who had been inside that house.

 

[LinasK]

Charging higher tuition is what state schools often do for out of state residents. Grad students may get a waiver that pays the difference between in and out of state tuition (often thousands of dollars per year as your link shows) but most schools have a limited number of waivers available to award. So the only way for out of state grad students to pay in-state tuition may be to declare residency. As @Sundog's post shows as does yours, BKs grad program tied assignment for waivers to assistantships. After the first year, WSU grad students had to pay the difference themselves if they remained out of state residents.

There's no need for any student to feel forced to change residency "multiple times a year." They are free to pay out of state tuition out of pocket if they wish. But students do need to "settle down" somewhere while in school if they want to easily do things like vote, for example. If they are working while in school, if they don't change residency to the state where they are working, they may have a more complicated tax situation because of withholding in the non-resident state. Since few doctoral students "go home" in the summers, they have essentially moved to the new state.

Certainly publicly available university materials suggest being a WA resident would have been to the advantage of most grad students at WSU. (It isn't as easy for undergrads to become state residents many places.) But owning real estate and registering vehicles are common ways to establish residency.
MOO

No, the student can vote by mail from their state of permanent residence(home address). I know this from personal experience with my own child attending college out of state. We also haven't transferred her car registration, nor driver's license or car license plate to her state that she's been living in for over 5 years, although her boyfriend did after he graduated.

 

[LinasK]

No, I didn't edit the meaning of my post.

I agree with you a student can file state tax returns in two states if necessary. But that's a "tax complication" I think most people would like to avoid. Heck, some people don't file one return even when they don't owe and may be eligible for a refund! And yes, absentee voting may be possible but that's not as easy as strolling to the polls. (My post said changing residency was needed to easily vote.) In my state, for example, non-military absentee ballots have to be requested no later than two weeks before an election and the completed ballot has to be witnessed by two witnesses. And as you point out, the student won't be able to vote in elections local to his/her "school state."

I don't know that concern over either issue (voting, taxes) applied to BK-- I expect it came down to the cost of tuition as it probably does for most grad students.
MOO

Some states automatically send absentee ballots. You don't need to request them.