4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #99

[BeginnerSleuther]

Oh by the way, the muder weapon was under a murder victim.

2 Cents

SBMFF. No, it wasn't. The fact is, the murder weapon has not been located.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Wait, are you suggesting the investigators should have done IGGS for the unknown DNA they found? I thought that was unconstitutional and should not be done?

I won't speak for that poster, but I'm curious to find out more about the other DNA samples in the house and why they were excluded from testing. I know we've heard they didn't meet criteria, but I'd like to hear more about that.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Meanwhile things that prove nothing or amount to wild speculation will be put aside.

IMO

SBMFF.

Reasonable doubt is made of things that "prove nothing or amount to wild speculation." I hardly think they'll be put aside. MOO.

 

[Megnut]

@mrjitty @Balthazar @jepop @NCWatcher @Megnut @Arkay

Sitting back, considering ^conflicting viewpoints^ (and others) re BK's G or NG.

What doubt is reasonable doubt?

Is reasonable doubt about one piece of evidence sufficient for jury to vote NG?

IMO it'll all be contained in their instructions for deliberation.

They are the triers of fact. They decide what weight to give the evidence, experts, exhibits, witnesses, and then they are to consider the totality of the evidence in order to render their verdict.

So, no, I don't think they will take individual pieces of evidence and weigh them against reason. It's about totality. That's why circumstantial evidence is evidence, as valid as direct evidence; because taken together, the sum is indeed greater than the parts, for how they fit together, leaving little room for doubt.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

SBMFF. No, it wasn't. The fact is, the murder weapon has not been located.

I think you realize I meant the sheath was under the victim not the knife. This military grade sheath could have held the actual killer knife I believe.

2 Cents

 

[Cool Cats]

SBMFF.

Reasonable doubt is made of things that "prove nothing or amount to wild speculation." I hardly think they'll be put aside

Jury decides reasonable doubt and they can discus it and decide it actually is reasonable doubt.

2 Cents

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

IMO it'll all be contained in their instructions for deliberation.

They are the triers of fact. They decide what weight to give the evidence, experts, exhibits, witnesses, and then they are to consider the totality of the evidence in order to render their verdict.

So, no, I don't think they will take individual pieces of evidence and weigh them against reason. It's about totality. That's why circumstantial evidence is evidence, as valid as direct evidence; because taken together, the sum is indeed greater than the parts, for how they fit together, leaving little room for doubt.

JMO

Jurors aren't robots though. Yes, those are the instructions given. But reality is often different and when one thing doesn't fit, it's enough for reasonable doubt.

MOO.

 

[Balthazar]

What forensic examination has almost certainly shown (and early on):

1. The length, width and construction of the knife blade (from the wounds).
2. If the most modern techniques were used, the type of metal from which the knife was constructed. I have no reason to think that the forensics people in Washington State skimped - they have true state of the art technology and have had a lot of time to run tests.

If these two things are known, well, KA-BAR Knives have a proprietary coating on the blade - so I would respectfully suggest that the investigators already know it was indeed a KA-BAR knife that fits into the KA-BAR sheath found at the crime scene.

Agree.

I think a jury will be able to follow this line of investigation.

Personal opinion: I think LE also has evidence of several purchases made by BK, over quite a period of time. I will be very surprised if they can't find a receipt for his knife purchase, although it's possible he paid cash at a brick and mortar store. But my gut feeling is that he did not do that. I also believe that BK had shown the knife to other people (family members, others) and that they can be called as witnesses to him possessing such a knife. These are my opinions, of course.

I disagree and there is absolutely no evidence of any of that which has been made public. JMO.

I also think it is very odd for anyone to believe that the knife belonged to one of the deceased (and I believe there is going to be clear evidence that the two women upstairs were killed first - so that scenario requires one of the two downstairs victims to have the knife, go upstairs, leave the sheath, then stab themselves and die (and without leaving the knife nearby).

We know that KG allegedly said "There's someone in the house." If she said it to MM and one of them had a knife for protection, it would be a normal reaction for that person to try to get their knife out to protect themself from the intruder. What has happened in some home invasion cases is that the intruder (who is also armed) gets to the victim too fast for the victim to completely be ready to use their weapon and the intruder takes the weapon from the homeowner. Then, the intruder is armed with two weapons. Does he use that weapon on the victim or the weapon he brought with him? It could easily be either or even both. So far we have no evidence proving which is true. JMO.

We know that BK pulled up to the house that night and was in the vicinity. The knife is missing. It isn't near any of the victims. Someone took it out of the house. I of course believe that someone was BK. And I also believe that LE/Prosecution has evidence of him owning such a knife and of him being at the house not only in the wee hours of that Sunday - but later on, at around 9:30 am. If he did go back for the knife (or something else), how did he even know the knife had been used if it wasn't his? Why is he at the house those two times? Too much coincidence for me.

There is zero evidence he was at the house at all - the trace DNA is not enough to prove his presence without corroborating evidence that he was actually inside of 1122 King Rd which does not seem to exist. AT talks about the stalking story being false at 6:48 in the video I linked at the bottom of the page.

I do not believe that Kaylee or anyone had that knife, killed three people and then, themselves, with that knife. I do not believe that either of the surviving roommates is the murderer.

I don't believe any of that either.

Fact: The ME agrees with me that no one suicided in that house. They were all murdered. A roommate sees a strange man in the house following some commotion-like noise of dog growling/whatever upstairs. This person is not one of the victims, is alive and walking around.

IMO

Unfortunately, I don't think we can be sure DM's story of the strange man is true at all. She apparently told LE that she may have dreamed it or her mind was playing tricks on her, that she was drunk or couldn't remember, etc. stated in the Jan 23, 2024 hearing by AT to which the prosecution did not object. (6:27, 6:35) in the video of the hearing I linked below.)

 

[Arkay]

@mrjitty @Balthazar @jepop @NCWatcher @Megnut @Arkay

Sitting back, considering ^conflicting viewpoints^ (and others) re BK's G or NG.

What doubt is reasonable doubt?

Is reasonable doubt about one piece of evidence sufficient for jury to vote NG?

IMO it'll all be contained in their instructions for deliberation.

They are the triers of fact. They decide what weight to give the evidence, experts, exhibits, witnesses, and then they are to consider the totality of the evidence in order to render their verdict.

So, no, I don't think they will take individual pieces of evidence and weigh them against reason. It's about totality. That's why circumstantial evidence is evidence, as valid as direct evidence; because taken together, the sum is indeed greater than the parts, for how they fit together, leaving little room for doubt.

JMO

@al66pine

I think it’s great that you are mulling over the conflicting viewpoints.

After all, that is what the actual jury will be called upon to do when the time comes. They will have much more evidence to sift through than we are privy to at this time.

My point of view is what @Megnut said above.

The totality of the evidence will create a logical narrative. IMO all arrows point, vividly, to Bryan Kohberger.

On the defense side, there appears to be a Hail Mary attempt to throw out the DNA evidence indicating BK touched the snap, and ONLY Bryan touched that snap.

If the defense succeeds in getting this crucial evidence thrown out, the case will be more difficult to prove, but I believe there’s still enough circumstantial evidence to prove his guilt.

On Bryan’s side there are only gaps—-4 in the morning to go “shopping” in Moscow because the tax is lower? Stargazing but the phone is off during the murder time frame? And are there no stars or moon in Washington?

Watching the Super Bowl so forgive me for not scrolling back up, but someone said that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar…certainly true! But if the cigar has DNA on it, we know who was smoking.

And therefore, IMO we know whose hand unclasped that sheath.

My opinion.

 

[Cool Cats]

Jurors aren't robots though. Yes, those are the instructions given. But reality is often different and when one thing doesn't fit, it's enough for reasonable doubt.

MOO.

And one thing might not fit and the jury can still vote it is still not enough for reasonable doubt.

2 Cents.

 

[Boxer]

So an offender goes to that house, is confronted by a victim, he takes the victim's knife and proceeds to use it to murder 4 people?

Come on man.

Because college girls keep Kabars laying around? How about the guy breaking and entering who has had trouble with aggression, drugs, authority, the law and women uses an assault knife to kill victims.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

@al66pine

I think it’s great that you are mulling over the conflicting viewpoints.

After all, that is what the actual jury will be called upon to do when the time comes. They will have much more evidence to sift through than we are privy to at this time.

My point of view is what @Megnut said above.

The totality of the evidence will create a logical narrative. IMO all arrows point, vividly, to Bryan Kohberger.

On the defense side, there appears to be a Hail Mary attempt to throw out the DNA evidence indicating BK touched the snap, and ONLY Bryan touched that snap.

If the defense succeeds in getting this crucial evidence thrown out, the case will be more difficult to prove, but I believe there’s still enough circumstantial evidence to prove his guilt.

On Bryan’s side there are only gaps—-4 in the morning to go “shopping” in Moscow because the tax is lower? Stargazing but the phone is off during the murder time frame? And are there no stars or moon in Washington?

Watching the Super Bowl so forgive me for not scrolling back up, but someone said that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar…certainly true! But if the cigar has DNA on it, we know who was smoking.

And therefore, IMO we know whose hand unclasped that sheath.

My opinion.

Do we have any more detail about the shopping being better in Moscow? Because if not, I don't think it's fair to think of it as just lower taxes. I shop across my state line 99% of the time and it has nothing at all to do with taxes. It has to do with selection. When cities straddle state lines, there's often one of everything. So my closest Trader Joe's is across the state line. My closest Whole Foods is across the state line. My closest Target and is across the state line. I have an Aldi on my side of line and a mom and pop market that's decent, but doesn't have much of the things I buy.

This is what I meant when I said sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. BK could be 100% guilty. But it still doesn't mean every single thing he did, every single thing he said, every single time he breathed, it was for nefarious reasons. When we try too hard to put every single thing into one box, that's when the box gets filled with clutter and confusion and we open the door for reasonable doubt and for defenders to come posting. That all-or-nothing strategy to making a case does more harm than good, IMO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

And one thing might not fit and the jury can still vote it is still not enough for reasonable doubt.

2 Cents.

For some, it might be. Depends on what it is.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

Because college girls keep Kabars laying around? How about the guy breaking and entering who has had trouble with aggression, drugs, authority, the law and women uses an assault knife to kill victims.

And who just so happened to have aspirations for armed forces special ops.

Was Bryan Kohberger in the military? Idaho suspect's career history

Kohberger expressed a desire "to one day serve in the Army Rangers" in a high school yearbook.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Karin1974]

RSBM

The FBI, IMHO, is not that culpable but they might have unwittingly opened the door to others, non-friendly, entities. And, they have also created a problem for themselves. Anne Taylor mentioned two other male DNAs being found in the blood. The answer was, their profiles were not found in the CODIS. One can read between the lines, but this undermines the validity of the results obtained for BK. His search was not limited, and the other ones, are.

That is the stumbling block for this case.

Jeff Nye may wish to formulate his words better. A well-known case.

23andMe user data targeting Ashkenazi Jews leaked online

A database that has been shared on dark web forums and viewed by NBC News has a list of 999,999 people who allegedly have used the service.

www.nbcnews.com

The hackers, I hope, will be arrested, but the issue is, that they hacked into a small number of accounts and followed the matches, and if is, theoretically, IGG.

So one can’t broadly say, legal or not. There are many limitations, and in general, DNA laws are long overdue.

IMO - So respectfully, you’re just as interested in the random non identified dna found in the house as the dna found on possibly the murder weapon’s sheath that was under one of the bodies? Just to put it out there, I’m not, that dna on possibly the murder weapon’s sheath found under a body is the whole kit & caboodle for me. There will be no innocent explanation on why that dna was found there & the presumption of privacy after leaving your dna in such a compromising position at a crime scene is preposterous! MOO

 

[Arkay]

Do we have any more detail about the shopping being better in Moscow? Because if not, I don't think it's fair to think of it as just lower taxes. I shop across my state line 99% of the time and it has nothing at all to do with taxes. It has to do with selection. When cities straddle state lines, there's often one of everything. So my closest Trader Joe's is across the state line. My closest Whole Foods is across the state line. My closest Target and is across the state line. I have an Aldi on my side of line and a mom and pop market that's decent, but doesn't have much of the things I buy.

SBM

Hi BS—my point about BK shopping was the focus on it being 4 in the morning.

I certainly understand anyone crossing state lines in a quest for more selection.

I do not understand him driving around Moscow at that time.

Even here in NYC, famed for being the “City That Never Sleeps,” most stores that sell goods are closed by 10 or 11 PM.

And the stars and moon can be found in Pullman just as well as Moscow.

IMO it’s very suspicious that BK should be driving at 4 AM in the vicinity of that house. What’s there for him at that time, if not the victims?

My opinion.

 

[Gigiky]

I was just reading a time line put out by CBS. When it lists what BK is being indicted for it list
4 counts of first degree murder and felony burglary. Where does the burglary come into play?
Did BK rob / steal something from the victims? I never read anything about a burglary charge till just now.

 

[Boxer]

IMO - So respectfully, you’re just as interested in the random non identified dna found in the house as the dna found on possibly the murder weapon’s sheath that was under one of the bodies? Just to put it out there, I’m not, that dna on possibly the murder weapon’s sheath found under a body is the whole kit & caboodle for me. There will be no innocent explanation on why that dna was found there & the presumption of privacy after leaving your dna in such a compromising position at a crime scene is preposterous! MOO

Agree.

 

[Boxer]

I was just reading a time line put out by CBS. When it lists what BK is being indicted for it list
4 counts of first degree murder and felony burglary. Where does the burglary come into play?
Did BK rob / steal something from the victims? I never read anything about a burglary charge till just now.

Entering a house without permission to commit a crime is burglary.

 

[Gigiky]

Entering a house without permission to commit a crime is burglary.

Thank you. And after reading up on it. He should or could be charged with aggravated burglary because of the weapon.