CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #3

[Sillybilly]

Supreme Court of Canada rejected polygraphs in court, not due to unreliability, but in R. v Beland (1987) because it "would be contrary to the well-established principles of evidence" and "the admission of polygraph evidence would cause delays and complications, which would not improve the degree of certainty in the judicial process that currently exists."

Use Of Polygraph Tests In Canadian Courts​

Also of interest in the above is the Court of Appeal having stated "... in Whiten v Pilot Insurance Co. (1999),42 OR (3d) 641. In that case, the Ontario Court of Appeal stated that the litigants’ offer to take a polygraph test was part of the total evidence showcasing the litigants’ good faith and willingness to cooperate ..."

 

[borndem]

Welcome to Websleuths,
iamafiusy !!​

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[Scrutineer]

Supreme Court of Canada rejected polygraphs in court, not due to unreliability, but in R. v Beland (1987) because it "would be contrary to the well-established principles of evidence" and "the admission of polygraph evidence would cause delays and complications, which would not improve the degree of certainty in the judicial process that currently exists."

Use Of Polygraph Tests In Canadian Courts​

Also of interest in the above is the Court of Appeal having stated "... in Whiten v Pilot Insurance Co. (1999),42 OR (3d) 641. In that case, the Ontario Court of Appeal stated that the litigants’ offer to take a polygraph test was part of the total evidence showcasing the litigants’ good faith and willingness to cooperate ..."

For unreliability, I meant on a scientific basis. They're not as accurate as many believe, and there are ways to "defeat" or distort the results of the test. Things like anxiety disorders, cardiovascular issues, etc. can potentially distort results, too.

I wasn't actually aware of the specific legal reasons they are inadmissible, although I guess I would have assumed it was more evidence-based. Thanks for providing that background information.

 

[ttjo]

I know the bus driver said he dropped them off on Tuesday after school.
What happened friday morning? Did he receive notice they wouldnt be at school? Was he expecting them to be standing at the end of the driveway with a parent ready to be picked up? Did he drive by and they werent waiting so he just continued on ? Wonder what time pick up time is ?
Just thinking about how mornings go. when buses are involved, usually youre hustling to get everythig ready and someone has got to be out there, cause if you miss the pick up, you have to drive them.
I know no one can answer but I sure hope Police got something from that friday morning schedule.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I'm torn on this one.

If stepdad is secretly a POI with LE, I feel like stepdad is almost too chatty... like he's trying to convince himself another truth/story but on the other hand, it gives the impression he is earnest and transparent to be so confident to chat in general.

So, he's not worried about slipping up because he might be being honest. I do not think he is sophisticated enough to trick LE or pull this off. MOO, JMO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

And it would also behoove RCMP to issue a warning than an unknown party might be in the area who kidnapped the children, and that parents should be especially careful. I have not heard such a warning from RCMP.

I'm unsure they'd outright state that at this time, especially if any type of surveillance is secretly happening. They wouldn't want to tip off if they have leads an alert a potential POI, they might be "playing dumb"...

They would maybe state something along the lines as "no threat to the public" or use the words "targeted", but in Canada I think they reserve those statements more for organized crime, domestic or victims known to their assailants. So they haven't stated no threat to public either... so you may be right!

MOO, JMO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I know the bus driver said he dropped them off on Tuesday after school.
What happened friday morning? Did he receive notice they wouldnt be at school? Was he expecting them to be standing at the end of the driveway with a parent ready to be picked up? Did he drive by and they werent waiting so he just continued on ? Wonder what time pick up time is ?
Just thinking about how mornings go. when buses are involved, usually youre hustling to get everythig ready and someone has got to be out there, cause if you miss the pick up, you have to drive them.
I know no one can answer but I sure hope Police got something from that friday morning schedule.

Good question, I wonder the routine and protocols as well. Maybe if no one there, they just continue on?

Would have to get a local who's on same bus system to answer, as might change in different towns/locations. I'm curious too!

 

[ttjo]

Good question, I wonder the routine and protocols as well. Maybe if no one there, they just continue on?

Would have to get a local who's on same bus system to answer, as might change in different towns/locations. I'm curious too!

around here, they pull up. expect you to be waiting , if youre not there, they wait a few minutes and if you dont come out, that's it, theyre off.

 

[musicaljoke]

Which is plausible, as there is no confirmation of their existence from date of last school attendance, only parents say so.

This could be verified rather easily, I would think. Jack's pull ups would still be in the garbage. There might be cereal bowls left where the kids may have made themselves breakfast that morning. There would be laundry consistent with the kids being there since their last school day. There would be recent food scraps in the trash that could be shown to have been left by the kids. There could be drawings on the back of some item of mail that arrived on Wednesday ...

I can't imagine having little two kids in the house for three days without a major evidence trail.

 

[Angelcat13]

The word is “on”. It’s not an option to read different words than were contained in the RCMP release.

“They were last seen this morning, May 2, on Gairloch Rd. in Lansdown Station, Pictou County.“

I think a lot of how you view this statement depends on where you are from. Where I live it is very common for someone to say, “I live on Main St”. It doesn’t mean that they actually live ON the street, rather they live in a house located on that street.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Search continues Sunday
Hansen said the team decides where to search next by analyzing behaviour. He said children follow patterns.

“We have statistics for distances travelled and stuff like that, so we try to cover off all the areas that we just haven’t had the time or the manpower to get into yet,” he said.

More than two weeks have passed since the search began but Hansen said the timeframe has no bearing on their approach.

“Children in that age range tend to hide anyway even early on,” he said. “So it’s just a very thorough effort to get into all of these areas because if somebody is hiding under a deadfall or something like that, they have to be able to see.”

Search and Rescue personnel said they plan to continue the search Sunday if Lilly and Jack Sullivan are not found.

“The only reason we would stop would be because we found them today,” said Hansen. “The plan is to go tomorrow, hoping to have at least another hundred people here tomorrow and push through until the end of the day at least.”

Ground and air teams renew search and rescue efforts for Lily and Jack Sullivan in Pictou County, N.S.

Five teams and 100 people from across the province are working with civil air search and rescue teams in the renewed search for Lily and Jack Sullivan who went missing from their home in Pictou County, N.S., on May 2.

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[katydid23]

This could be verified rather easily, I would think. Jack's pull ups would still be in the garbage. There might be cereal bowls left where the kids may have made themselves breakfast that morning. There would be laundry consistent with the kids being there since their last school day. There would be recent food scraps in the trash that could be shown to have been left by the kids. There could be drawings on the back of some item of mail that arrived on Wednesday ...

I can't imagine having little two kids in the house for three days without a major evidence trail.

But some of those type of things can be staged. Easy enough to put two small bowls of cheerios and milk in the sink, and throw some toys and crayons on the coffee table with any recent pictures and scribbles placed around. Probably plenty of kids dirty laundry to use. You could scribble flowers and stars on the back of Wednesday's mail yourself. IMO

 

[rtmfry]

Question for any Nova Scotia residents here: Was it a particularly cold winter? Would the ground still be frozen? I checked "last frost" dates for gardeners and this link says May 26.

Frost Dates for New Glasgow, NS

www.almanac.com

The day they went missing was cold. Down to about 34F (1C) overnight, with a high of about 52F (11C) around the early afternoon. No recorded precipitation, though I would imagine frosty in the morning.

 

[Skigh]

The day they went missing was cold. Down to about 34F (1C) overnight, with a high of about 52F (11C) around the early afternoon. No recorded precipitation, though I would imagine frosty in the morning.

Given those temperatures it seems strange that the children have not appeared to have been wearing coats. . Missing coats would be something which could easily be checked.

 

[shetalksinstereo]

And Google maps

Sounds like maybe someone researched what they might ask for?

Moo

Or has seen it in other "missing" child cases!

 

[musicaljoke]

But some of those type of things can be staged. Easy enough to put two small bowls of cheerios and milk in the sink, and throw some toys and crayons on the coffee table with any recent pictures and scribbles placed around. Probably plenty of kids dirty laundry to use. You could scribble flowers and stars on the back of Wednesday's mail yourself. IMO

That's a lot of work which can be determined to have been staged. Things like dishes in the dishwasher, half drank cup of milk in the fridge ... too many details and not something that typically would be on a murderer's radar.

 

[Skigh]

That's a lot of work which can be determined to have been staged. Things like dishes in the dishwasher, half drank cup of milk in the fridge ... too many details and not something that typically would be on a murderer's radar.

I agree ,I do not think that they would think of staging used pull ups for a 4 year old in the bin .

 

[MistyWaters]

Search continues Sunday
<snipped for reply and BBM>

“Children in that age range tend to hide anyway even early on,” he said. “So it’s just a very thorough effort to get into all of these areas because if somebody is hiding under a deadfall or something like that, they have to be able to see.”

Search and Rescue personnel said they plan to continue the search Sunday if Lilly and Jack Sullivan are not found.

“The only reason we would stop would be because we found them today,” said Hansen. “The plan is to go tomorrow, hoping to have at least another hundred people here tomorrow and push through until the end of the day at least.”

Ground and air teams renew search and rescue efforts for Lily and Jack Sullivan in Pictou County, N.S.

Five teams and 100 people from across the province are working with civil air search and rescue teams in the renewed search for Lily and Jack Sullivan who went missing from their home in Pictou County, N.S., on May 2.

www.ctvnews.ca

Sad to think about, children lost in the wilderness, being scared at a glimpse of searchers who look big and scary in the eyes of a 4 and 6 year old, hiding….

Colchester Ground Search and Rescue | Nova Scotia Ground Search and Rescue Association

CGSARA home base in locate at 73 Ventura Avenue, Debert Nova Scotia, This building houses vehicles, and equipment storage, offices, kitchen, and training classroom. With permission of the owner the team, also takes full advantage of the surrounding wilderness areas to conduct valuable training...

sarnovascotia.com

 

[Occam's Zebra]

One of the things I think about with this case....

The older 2 kids disappear Friday morning from the house the mother shares with her partner and their baby.

By Saturday night she and the baby are living somewhere else.

MOO but as a parent, I would *never* move out of a house 24 hours after my young kids wandered away. What if they're close by in the woods and find their way home and I'm not there?

MOO they did not wander away.

 

[Sarahlou]

One of the things I think about with this case....

The older 2 kids disappear Friday morning from the house the mother shares with her partner and their baby.

By Saturday night she and the baby are living somewhere else.

MOO but as a parent, I would *never* move out of a house 24 hours after my young kids wandered away. What if they're close by in the woods and find their way home and I'm not there?

MOO they did not wander away.

Agreed. To me it seems a bit absurd to think after all this time they wouldn't be found if they'd wandered away. All those people searching, no trace of them at all. No sightings. So unlikely.