CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #5

[Judy Sleuth]

There is a bootprint and a scrap of blanket found near the pipeline trail, someone in the family identifies it as being from Lilly’s blanket. Yet the terrain between the home and the pipeline trail is too dense for the children to have been likely to get through to make it to the pipeline trail.

Cut to emphasize: I thought I saw on one of the maps that the area between their home and access to the dirt road going toward the pipeline clear-cut is NOT entirely forested. It may have been an older image, though, but to me, from above it looked more like an area that would be overgrown with high grasses and maybe short shrubs, or perhaps it is a periodic wetland with that kind of lower growth.

Yes, it looks like one can get to the pipeline cut by walking through dense forest from their house, but I can also imagine their outings (I think DM mentioned that, as well as going to the "cabins") - especially on 4-wheelers - being through more grassy or slightly wet areas, if such areas really do exist.

I'll see if I can find an image here in the threads. As I recall, it had Gairloch Road running somewhat horizontally, the pipeline cutting a (obviously unnatural) line from upper right toward mid-left, and a lighter patch of maybe 2-3 football fields in size just to the right and slightly up from the house, with a faint dirt track running lower right toward mid-view.

Judy

Edited to include photo, with possible "brushy area" circled by me. The photo is a screenshot from Google Earth, but I don't know how recent it is. That view could have been PRIOR to the hurricane.

 

[MistyWaters]

I know they haven't been tested for autism. DM is the one who referred to them possibly having autism, so it is relevant to the discussion. Whether it's his own personal belief or he has been led to believe that, we don't know. We only know that it has been discussed as a possibility somewhere along the line.

In the link provided the term "developmental" is not used in the specific context of a "developmental delay" diagnosis. None of us here is an expert, but from my own family experiences, I am very aware that many of these conditions are comorbid (autism, ADHD, C-PTSD, depression, bipolar, autism, GDD) are all conditions that are frequently co-morbid with one or more of the others, and many have a strong genetic component.

All this said, and NOT directed at you, but where are the links to support such speculation and/or accusation that Jack and Lilly were abused and neglected?

@MistyWaters do have the link where DM talks about the Child Welfares previous involvement? Or anyone?

Yes, here it is

Daniel Martell, who was in a common-law relationship with the children’s mother and was living with them when they went missing, told The Globe in an interview in May that a social worker with child protective services visited the home several months ago. The visit was prompted by concerns that had been relayed by someone at the children’s school and related to their developmental delays, Mr. Martell said.

The quote is from Globe and Mail, sometimes it’s open, other times it’s paylocked. I don’t think anyone is suggesting Lilly and Jack were being intentionally abused or neglected but Child Welfare’s mandate is to ensure children are not. Their visit would suggest the nature of the complaint prompted concern of possible abuse or neglect. Subsequent discussion has arisen about if or how such a complaint might possibly be connected to developmental delays.
JMO

Missing Nova Scotia children were assessed by child ...​

The Globe and Mail
https://www.theglobeandmail.com › canada › article-mi...
3 days ago — Four-year-old Jack Sullivan and his six-year-old sister Lily are still missing seven weeks since they reportedly vanished without a trace from ...

 

[Sillybilly]

Grandmother’s admission of changes in home/ neglect Grandmothers interview

Maybe it's just me, but my understanding was that the exterior of the house was a mess (something along the lines of it looked like camping). I didn't hear any allegations of abuse or neglect.

JMO

 

[Ghostwheel]

In my area, a severe enough developmental delay that could also be associated with neglect or abuse might be reported just to check up on. Make sure it's not related to fetal alcohol syndrome, but the parent may have cleaned up their act; make sure there is a working toilet if there are potty training delays; a child reverses in development, like was once able to sit for x time and suddenly no longer can, so they look for toxic substances, like lead paint kids might chew on and not be known.

They want to be sure there is nothing currently going on that might be explained by something previous that is no longer going on (alcoholic getting sober), or that a parent could be unaware of but still dangerous in the home (lead paint).

So in my area, they might not suspect abuse or neglect, but maybe poor living conditions due to financial constraints or ignorance of what is proper that could be mitigated. That is just one example.

 

[Ontario Mom]

It hasn't been until very recently that we have heard the children were reported to be not going to school at 6:15. It was understood that the mother did not see the children that morning, only Danielle saw Lilly and heard what he believed to be Jack in kitchen.

I've seen nothing in MSM that indicates the kids were "likely unsupervised for hours".

 

[MistyWaters]

In my area, a severe enough developmental delay that could also be associated with neglect or abuse might be reported just to check up on. Make sure it's not related to fetal alcohol syndrome, but the parent may have cleaned up their act; make sure there is a working toilet if there are potty training delays; a child reverses in development, like was once able to sit for x time and suddenly no longer can, so they look for toxic substances, like lead paint kids might chew on and not be known.

They want to be sure there is nothing currently going on that might be explained by something previous that is no longer going on (alcoholic getting sober), or that a parent could be unaware of but still dangerous in the home (lead paint).

So in my area, they might not suspect abuse or neglect, but maybe poor living conditions due to financial constraints or ignorance of what is proper that could be mitigated. That is just one example.

I agree, I think any school would expect the mother/parent to want to have the children diagnosed to determine if the cause of developmental difficulties was medically related and by doing so, removing abuse or neglect from the range of possibilities. Especially regarding autism, there are supports to help the child to prevent him or her from falling too far behind. I feel a little annoyed at their reference to ‘possible’ autism as if that solves anything.
JMO

 

[Kaley Smith]

Not sure what to think about this case. This is interesting if you've been following the disappearance of these two kids.

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/9.6805395

 

[Ontario Mom]

Problem is I’m not sure that was the truth. That story has slightly changed a few times.

Really though, it hasn't. Both mom & DM pretty much said the same thing, according to MSM.
I mean I'm not sure it was the entire truth either, but as far as MSM goes, their accounts of the morning were essentially the same. (Ignoring the early erroneous report from the Daily Mail that is notorious for getting info wrong, that said they were feeding the baby.)

 

[borndem]

Welcome to Websleuths,
Serononin !!
​

 

[Gemmie]

The photo is a screenshot from Google Earth, but I don't know how recent it is. That view could have been PRIOR to the hurricane.

If you click on Data Attribution on the lower left you might find a date.

Clicking opens a popup:

 

[MistyWaters]

Problem is I’m not sure that was the truth. That story has slightly changed a few times.

I don’t understand why it can’t be known appx when it was first noticed the children were up and about, if either of the adults got out of bed then and how long were the children left to their own resources. Were the children told they didn’t have to go to school that day and were there any other planned activities or outings for that Friday?

Was the 10am 911 call made as soon as it was noticed the children were missing or a while later when DM was out on his quad searching? Why two different versions?
There should be no need for such ambiguity. I certainly do hope the RCMP obtained far more clarity. JMO

‘The likelihood that they’re alive right now is very low’: Search for missing siblings in N.S. scaled back

The search for two missing children in Nova Scotia’s Pictou County will be scaled back.

www.ctvnews.ca

“He estimates it took them up to 20 minutes to notice the two children were gone Friday morning.”

 

[tarabull]

I don’t understand why it can’t be known appx when it was first noticed the children were up and about, if either of the adults got out of bed then and how long were the children left to their own resources. Were the children told they didn’t have to go to school that day and were there any other planned activities or outings for that Friday?

Was the 10am 911 call made as soon as it was noticed the children were missing or a while later when DM was out on his quad searching? Why two different versions?
There should be no need for such ambiguity. I certainly do hope the RCMP obtained far more clarity. JMO

‘The likelihood that they’re alive right now is very low’: Search for missing siblings in N.S. scaled back

The search for two missing children in Nova Scotia’s Pictou County will be scaled back.

www.ctvnews.ca

“He estimates it took them up to 20 minutes to notice the two children were gone Friday morning.”

Interesting...

Is that 2 estimates??

 

[MistyWaters]

Interesting...

Is that 2 estimates??

Yes it was his recent version and her original ‘instinct’ version.

 

[su5ie]

As a mother of a child with special needs I couldn't seem to wrap my head around reasons a school would report parents to a child protection agency because a child was presenting with a developmental delay. So I looked up reasons why this would be the case . One of the reasons given for this was parents not engaging with the school or following through on recommendations among other things .

A question I have is if cps make a home visit , is the first visit just to assess the situation, put forward recommendations and then any subsequent visits or appointments are to see if parents are following through on the suggestions made in that intial visit . At what stage would a child be taken into care ?

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) | Canadian Child Welfare Research Portal

“Child welfare” is a term used to describe a set of government and private services designed to protect children and encourage family stability. The main aim of these services is to safeguard children from abuse and neglect. Child welfare agencies will typically investigate allegations of abuse...

cwrp.ca

I felt it quite sad that first nations children make up just a little over half of the children in foster care . Even though they only make up a tiny percentage of the total population of children in Canada, I think it's 52% out of a 8% of the entire population. Full facts and figures are in the above article in the section on indigenous children


I also wonder was jack and lilly attending the same school and if not which school made the report or did they both and was the report regarding the two children or just one

 

[MistyWaters]

I've seen nothing in MSM that indicates the kids were "likely unsupervised for hours".

Actually I noticed no mention of anything to indicate they were supervised at all that morning.

 

[Lucy6226]

Actually I noticed no mention of anything to indicate they were supervised at all that morning.

We know Jack wasn't physically seen, only heard, according to parents accounts. That in itself suggests lack of supervision imo

 

[AddyFinch]

Maybe it's just me, but my understanding was that the exterior of the house was a mess (something along the lines of it looked like camping). I didn't hear any allegations of abuse or neglect.

JMO

“Seeing the condition of the home, she was always clean about herself, about her kids, about her home, this home looked more like a camp”, “it was very unkempt, I was surprised”. Grandmothers viewIn reference to the term camp, in Canada that is usually referred to a hunt or fish camp, a rough structure for cooking, sleeping while hunting, fishing, and prepping the kill. For better explanation it’s like a cottage only rougher. In northern Ontario, people might go to camp for the summer, or to camp in the fall for hunting. There’s not many mod cons. She said camp, not camping.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Actually I noticed no mention of anything to indicate they were supervised at all that morning.

100% correct, I haven't either.

None of us know what actually went on inside that house that morning - other than what both the mom and DM have said.

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt (whether they deserve it or not) until or unless LE tells us anything different.

 

[su5ie]

I'm finding it hard to recall a missing child case where the mom or a representative of the mom such as a lawyer , a friend ,a relative , a community representative in case of indigenous peoples or other minority groups hasn't spoken to the media since day 1 .

It's the one thing that boggles my mind and prevents me from having a definitive view of what happened.

I get the mental health angle and she also is not obliged to pacify a questioning public but is it not highly unusual. Even cases where the partner is suspected or kids have wandered off . Is there not usually a televised appeal around the month mark asking for information or the mom asking to keep looking etc

 

[Serononin]

DM is the one who said child welfare investigated due to Lilly and Jack’s developmental issues? I am not sure, I will recheck this and correct if I am wrong.

He said that someone at the school reported them because of concerns about the children's development. The first part of that does give me pause, because I thought child welfare services weren't allowed to tell parents who it was who made the call?