NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #10 *Arrest*

[soap mama]

Why LM is only being charged with 2nd degree murder.

"Given the image of the homicide captured on surveillance video – a dark-hooded figure with a gray backpack fatally shooting the executive in the back from several feet away – the case may seem like an obvious candidate for an even more severe charge.
But under New York law, a first-degree murder charge only applies to a narrow list of aggravating circumstances, including when the victim is a judge, a police officer or a first responder, or when the killing involves a murder-for-hire or an intent to commit terrorism, legal experts told CNN."

Charges might be upgraded to 1st degree charges if LE can prove terrorism

"If it appears, for instance, the suspect had planned the killing for a while, evidence may point to a terrorism angle that could merit a bump-up to a first-degree murder charge in New York, said David Shapiro, a lecturer at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

“Terrorism is defined, basically, as creating, intimidating the civilian population or influencing a government unit to act in a certain way,” Shapiro told CNN."

https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/13/us/luigi-mangione-brian-thompson-ceo/index.html

JMO

I would say it's more difficult to prove 1st, when a conviction under 2nd will still garner a similar sentence in length.

 

[Tiff23fr]

IMO- It appears that the banner image on his X (also in this link) is a single collage image. Was he still into Pokémon after his surgery? Do we know where the third photo (standing on mountain) was taken?
Pondering out load the selection of those 3 photos

A Pokémon creature is the latest subject of the internet’s embrace of the suspect in health executive’s killing

An image from what appeared to be Luigi Mangione’s X profile has, for some, become a symbol of resistance. For others, it’s a clue.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[MassGuy]

Are faraday bags considered suspicious? We already have wallets that block scammers from accessing credit card info. I keep my car key fob in a faraday box (there was a lot of car thefts for a while during Covid). If people are carrying laptops containing intellectual property would it be unusual for them to place them in backpacks that block access? In NYC and other large cities I would think there's several thousand people walking around with backpacks that have that technology. They aren't considered a threat by airport security.

No, but it's all about context. If this guy suddenly started using one when he disappeared, or just around the time of this crime, then that's very interesting.

It would show the lengths he went to hide from his family, and ultimately, law enforcement.

 

[Gemmie]

<snipped for focus>

Thank you for posting this statement by United Healthcare leadership. It really brought tears to my eyes. This is an incredible loss, both to his family, friends, colleagues, community and for Brian himself, of course, in terms of who he might have continued to become as a leader in our country. He was only 50 years old.

You beat me to it. I heard them talking about what the CEO said on CNBC a few minutes ago and was shocked, but happy to hear him say it. I HOPE something gets done about it, but I'm not kidding myself when it comes to huge corporations and their profits.

<modsnip: off topic>

 

[citygirl]

Prison is meant to be uncomfortable, what were they expecting? soft pillows and lobster thermidore? can’t do the time? don’t do the crime

But they were able to gather and watch TV in real time and respond to the questions.
The food may suck but they’re not in any confinement. I wonder what crimes they committed? IMO, not murder.

 

[citygirl]

No, but it's all about context. If this guy suddenly started using one when he disappeared, or just around the time of this crime, then that's very interesting.

It would show the lengths he went to hide from his family, and ultimately, law enforcement.

You always make so much sense. MOO

 

[sfinkz]

His widow/estranged wife said he had been receiving threats, IF what the Mail is saying is true and he had bodyguards in NYC then why didn’t he use them? either he was very casual about the threats or arranged his own hit

BT was enroute to a hair/makeup appointment as he made the short jaunt—alone—across 53rd St twenty minutes before sunrise nine mornings ago.

I never considered it odd he was not staying at the event venue. Bigwigs prefer a bit of a buffer, avoiding any awkward encounters in the buffet line. The CEO’s also included the top dog Witty, presumably also lodging off-site.

It may be that security accompanied Witty as BT decided on a last-minute change of sport coat or something and would catch up later.

Regardless, I’m convinced that two-minute window was the only opportunity during the three days of events when one of the intended targets was alone/exposed/unprotected (which always screamed to me; Accomplice!, but now subscribe to lone wolf, rabid at that, with an extremely lucky opportunity mixed with…social engineering!)

One of the eeriest aspects of this case is nobody from UHG knew BT was deceased until two hours later, as an earlier-cited ‘Bloomberg’ article described the tension in the room.

Witty started the show on time, aware something was up, unsure what exactly, prattled on for an hour as the rumors and alerts circulated on phones across the room in cascading mass confusion.

 

[Sundog]

His widow/estranged wife said he had been receiving threats, IF what the Mail is saying is true and he had bodyguards in NYC then why didn’t he use them? either he was very casual about the threats or arranged his own hit

BT's wife said he had mentioned threats, but BT may have been used to getting threats due to the nature of his position and field. The threats may not have been perceived as credible threats that would cause him to be more concerned than usual. In NYC, he was only walking from his nearby hotel to the conference, IIRC, it was only about a block. Apparently he didn't think he needed security at that time of the morning and for that short distance.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Dropping Additional data on his time in HI:

Raj George, a local nonprofit executive and president of the Penn Alumni Club of Hawaii, said Mangione impressed older alumni by joining them for a tour of the Shangri La Museum at the Doris Duke estate.

“We almost never get someone only two, three years out of Penn wanting to engage, and especially engage with a cultural event like a tour of Shangri La,” he said. “We do maybe more social events, happy hours, pau hana.”

Experiences in Hawaii may hold clues to suspected CEO killer’s anger

Most of the memories shared with Hawaii News Now have been positive, contrary to the angry personality he expressed as he fought with officers outside his extradition hearing in Pennsylvania on Tuesday.

www.hawaiinewsnow.com

 

[citygirl]

@BrianJohnson : So true regarding the, "Can't do the time ? Don't do the crime."
LM had to know this, and also had time to plan -- and I'm certain he understood the consequences.
But...consequences be darned.
He was going to go through with his murderous assassination.
Imo.

I’m not convinced he had any clue of the circumstances.
Comfortable life. Loved, cared for and safe.
Hence, how he looked upon arrest. Like a deer caught in the headlights.
I know it won’t be popular, but I was encouraged to see his outburst entering the extradition hearing.
Imagine being cuffed, surrounded by cops and thrown in jail.
He didn’t have a clue. MOO.

 

[Sundog]

Some details I hadn’t seen before:

After arriving in the city, Mangione got a taxi and "immediately goes to a McDonald's in the vicinity of the Hilton hotel," said Kenny. From there, he went to the hostel where he was staying until the day of the shooting he stands accused of. Kenny said Mangione "was coming and going on a regular basis" from the hostel, and was seen on security camera footage with an e-bike battery.

Some time shortly after he allegedly shot Thompson, Mangione took a cab up to Washington Heights, near the George Washington Port Authority Bus Terminal, according to Kenny.

"From there we have him. We believe he may have taken the subway back to Penn Station and then made his way to Philadelphia from there," the NYPD chief told NBC New York.

He may have been aboard an A or C train to get down to the midtown transit hub.

How Mangione got to Pittsburgh and then Altoona is still not known, but police know how he may have paid for his travels.

"As far as how he was getting by when he was arrested, he had a substantial amount of cash on him. He was getting money from an ATM, everything he did he was paying for in cash," Kenny said, noting it was "one large withdrawal from the bank itself."

Mangione had more than $5,000 in cash on him at the time of his arrest, all in $100 bills, according to Kenny. Where the withdrawal took place was still being investigated.

'No indication' suspect in CEO killing was ever insured by UnitedHealthcare, NYPD says

As police continue to scour the history of the suspected shooter who gunned down an insurance CEO on a midtown Manhattan sidewalk, the NYPD said there is “no indication” he ever was a client of UnitedHealthcare.

www.nbcnewyork.com

I wondered about ATM withdrawals and what the limit was for his bank(s). At one point I thought that he may have stayed around in PA so that he could withdraw enough money from ATMs to get a flight out of the country, if there had been a daily limit to the funds he could withdraw.

So was he withdrawing cash from ATMs while in NYC or later when he was travelling to PA and locations unknown?

 

[citygirl]

BT's wife said he had mentioned threats, but BT may have been used to getting threats due to the nature of his position and field. The threats may not have been perceived as credible threats that would cause him to be more concerned than usual. In NYC, he was only walking from his nearby hotel to the conference, IIRC, it was only about a block. Apparently he didn't think he needed security at that time of the morning and for that short distance.

I’m thinking the company was getting threats and not him personally. But I could have that all wrong. JMO

 

[estone28]

I think it's unfortunate that there's a bit of misinformation on this thread which might be clouding the issue or not helping in our understanding of it.

"After he had surgery, he claimed that he was fully recovered in 8 days (not believable)" - I believe he claimed that he was pain-free, which is subjective and probably due to taking medication post-operatively any pain may have been masked, which is relatively common. 10ofRods wrote a helpful post about how directly after surgery there may be a large reduction in pain which may or may not be representative of the real situation long-term.

We haven't seen anything to state that he was in pain following the surgery, that pain was a motivation for him or anything of the like. <modsnip> We don't know if he was in pain or not at the point of the shooting. We don't know if surgery completely fixed the issue or not. We have no idea.

As far as someone taking a beginner surfing lesson and then having a problem, I don't think that's necessarily foreseeable. With a lot of conditions you're encouraged to stay active (e.g. with this one too, for example, keep attempting to do hills and strengthen the core and other parts of the body). It is incredibly hard to be a young, active person surrounded by friends who are able to do things you love and to sit out from them.

"he continued to participate in sports that ultimately led to a physical disability" - the problem is that anything could have set that off - like stepping on a piece of paper. It appears that his problem wasn't anywhere near as severe prior to the surfing incident (he mainly describes it as a bad ache) so he may well have thought it was fine to do that.

<modsnip> The assumption that someone is fine because they don't grimace, the assumption that someone is fine or pain-free because they're walking down the street. It just doesn't work like that. At all. We don't even know if this individual was even in pain in the footage we've seen yet there are so many comments about it and how he shouldn't be able to do this or that.

"I am still not buying the X-RAY Photo is the true “BACK story” to this situation.
But hey, “Poor Poor Luigi’s Back”
I call BS and I bet he loved the attention he got in person and online with his pity stories."
- Anyone who has screws in their back like that and the image seen on the x-ray which fits in with the story described so presumably is of his body, is likely to have experienced some pain. I don't get that vibe from the comments at all if we're talking about his indepth Reddit posts that discuss it. Again, it's comments like these that affect people greatly who are suffering with chronic pain and may mean they never speak out about it.

What he did was atrocious - you don't shoot someone because you disagree with them - but I think it's really important to try to understand why this happened and to keep things as accurate as possible. As far as I've seen his manifesto, if that's even accurate, doesn't mention pain as a motivation. In fact I haven't seen anything that mentions it in relation to the shooting.

You can feel empathy for a young man dealing with all of this (being laid off and then dealing with a spinal injury at that point - I don't know many people who wouldn't feel empathy for someone in that situation) AND have empathy for Brian Thompson and know what was done was completely wrong. It's not one or the other. <modsnip> Thanks for reading.

I, for one, and perhaps I am on an island here, believe LM's health, surgeries and all the rest didn't have a whole lot to do with his killing of Thompson. If anything, it was mostly anti-corporate greed and/or the bilking of everyday Americans by big business. Did his health or surgeries illuminate the issue for him? Probably. But I don't think his specific case drove this event. if that makes sense?

Bare in mind - you are talking about an extremely smart person - who liked challenges, and also likely has a rather large ego (arrogance) that says "I can do that much better than they did" and ALSO was used to always being recognized for his achievements. Now, I fully recognize my last sentence (recognized for his achievements) is in direct contradiction with my other opinion on this - he didn't want to be caught. So! Let me add some clarity - which is simply stated as - he only wanted to be 'caught' on HIS terms. Caught after he had a) made his full and complete thoughts known and b) made it clear that he could have gotten away with the murder had he wanted too or stayed completely silent. He did not want to be 'caught' via surprise encounter in McDonalds 5 days post-event.

JMHO

 

[otto]

@BrianJohnson : So true regarding the, "Can't do the time ? Don't do the crime."
LM had to know this, and also had time to plan -- and I'm certain he understood the consequences.
But...consequences be darned.
He was going to go through with his murderous assassination.
Imo.

Maybe he thought that he was so clever that he would get away with it. He tried to plan everything and he hid his face except for once instance at the hostel. I don't think he expected to be arrested.

There are 4 cameras at the hostel reception. Knowing that he revealed his face, he must have made a gamble that the footage would be overwritten, or that no one would connect him to the hostel.

 

[citygirl]

Maybe he thought that he was so clever that he would get away with it. He tried to plan everything and he hid his face except for once instance at the hostel. I don't think he expected to be arrested.

There are 4 cameras at the hostel reception. Knowing that he revealed his face, he must have made a gamble that the footage would be overwritten, or that no one would connect him to the hostel.

It’s uncanny when you consider posters saying he may have been better off without his mask in Altoona.
His eyes and eyebrows would not have been prominent.
I think that’s possible.
By then he was tired , cold and hungry with no way to move forward.
MOO.

 

[GRT]

His widow/estranged wife said he had been receiving threats, IF what the Mail is saying is true and he had bodyguards in NYC then why didn’t he use them? either he was very casual about the threats or arranged his own hit

I'm not sure I agree with this theory, but I do have a question.

If this were true, and BT staged his own hit, would LM still be charged with murder? Or euthanasia? Is there a difference in the law?

 

[estone28]

Any ideas or hunches about what precipitating event occurred before July 1st that caused him to totally isolate himself from friends & family? And, as Otto asked, what might he have been doing this time period?

I suspect that he knew or had planned to do something like what he did and figured it would be easier or less noticeable to 'go off grid' and 'be gone' for a period of time beforehand, rather than just disappearing the week of the event. Make Sense?

For example - if someone goes radio silent from their family, the first week is going to be persistent calls, emails, messages etc. etc. and then you pop-up a week or two later and everyone is after you "where have you been?" etc. etc. Instead, the way he did it - he was long disassociated - he was well into the "out of sight, out of mind" phase for most everyone other than his parents, likely.

 

[Sundog]

I’m curious why they waited so long to file a missing persons report? Not judging just generally curious.

Maybe LM had gone off the grid before but not for as long a time as this, so initially they were worried but hesitated to contact LE. Maybe when he travelled abroad he would not contact them for long time periods, and they kept thinking they would hear soon. It was reported somewhere in MSM that LM had a relative or relatives in San Francisco. So maybe the parents were contacting the relative to see if they could locate LM and help them get in contact with him.

It was reported that the family were contacting his friends in HI during this time, so we know they were active in trying to locate him. Again, it probably went longer than usual and was getting them increasingly worried, especially his mother.

 

[Chimera]

I’m not convinced he had any clue of the circumstances.
Comfortable life. Loved, cared for and safe.
Hence, how he looked upon arrest. Like a deer caught in the headlights.
I know it won’t be popular, but I was encouraged to see his outburst entering the extradition hearing.
Imagine being cuffed, surrounded by cops and thrown in jail.
He didn’t have a clue. MOO.

Agreed with your comment -- that he was loved, cared for, and safe.
All the more reason to find this crime so disturbing !

However, I really can't imagine being cuffed, surrounded by cops, and thrown into jail, mostly because I also can't imagine shooting someone in cold blood who is walking away from me and whom hasn't harmed me or mine.
LM had to have known he'd be arrested.

He's prob. more savvy about the world and the results of his own actions, than one might think ?
The cops weren't rough with him and were only trying to get him from point A to point B without undue fussing, it looked like.

Opinion might change, but at this time I'm not feeling sympathy for Mr. Mangione.
It's sad that two kids will have to spend their first holiday without their dad.
Not to mention the rest of Brian's family.

And the Mangione's have also lost their son to the courts and justice system -- in the worst possible circumstances. I am sorry he put them through this.
He's callous.
Omo.

 

[estone28]

I wondered about ATM withdrawals and what the limit was for his bank(s). At one point I thought that he may have stayed around in PA so that he could withdraw enough money from ATMs to get a flight out of the country, if there had been a daily limit to the funds he could withdraw.

So was he withdrawing cash from ATMs while in NYC or later when he was travelling to PA and locations unknown?

I would imagine he walked into his local bank and got out a large sum of cash before ever traveling to NYC.