NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #10 *Arrest*

[legalese]

You are right but even if the prosecution proves its case and the evidence is clear as day there is imho about a 10-20% chance he gets a not guilty verdict because a supporter got onto the jury. We already have influencers coaching young people about how to get onto the jury and what to say to those that choose the jury. Over 50% of under 30's support LM, all it takes is one and he walks away a free man

I understand the concern there completely. I guess I have some hope that the lawyers and judge involved in jury selection will be smarter than a 22-year-old “trained” by a social media influencer.

 

[citygirl]

I have tremendous empathy for this boy, though knowing he must be held accountable.
As a mother I would always love him but know I would be so angry right now and find it hard to forgive him.
MOO

 

[10ofRods]

Is anyone knowledgeable enough about NYC jails to comment on why LM would go to Rikers? I thought that NYC was phasing Rikers Island out as a place to house prisoners, has shut and is demolishing the MDC in Manhattan and is using the Brooklyn MDC to house P. Diddy - I would think that LM would go to the same place as P. Diddy?

Not that the Brooklyn MDC is particularly nice as an accommodation, but the facilities appear newer and, well, nicer than Rikers?

Anyway, I keep reading that Rikers is closing, hence the use of the Brooklyn facilities for new prisoners. It's about a 30 minute car ride from Manhattan's Criminal Court.

I think their commissary offerings are interesting:

https://www.bop.gov/locations/institutions/bro/bro_commlist.pdf?v=1.0.0

 

[Friday Fan]

It’s quite a bit more difficult to establish that the shooting of one individual was an act that LM intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population. Based on what we know, there’s a strong argument that his actions weren’t intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population (nor did they do so from the reaction we have seen).

Yes. The CNN article refers to recent threats to CEO's.
However, LM is not responsible for those threats.
The people making threats are responsible for their own behavior.

There is no evidence that LM is engaging in some type of criminal conspiracy to inspire others to commit similar crimes. Just because some people may find him "inspiring", doesn't mean a type of criminal conspiracy is involved. Those who point to him for inspiration are just creating excuses.

So far, I've only heard of one arrest of someone threatening a health insurance company. If companies are receiving threats, those people need to be prosecuted for those threats.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/18/us/luigi-mangione-murder-indictment-new-york/index.html

 

[NuttMegg]

You are right but even if the prosecution proves its case and the evidence is clear as day there is imho about a 10-20% chance he gets a not guilty verdict because a supporter got onto the jury. We already have influencers coaching young people about how to get onto the jury and what to say to those that choose the jury. Over 50% of under 30's support LM, all it takes is one and he walks away a free man

And, including the neutrals, >30% of over 70's, my age group, did not say completely unacceptable, iirc 10% said " acceptable". That means of those 100 old ppl you see every day, assuming they are registered voters, 10 could lean towards "not guilty" as a juror before a trial begins. We don't get to post old trials here, but I could dig up a few where a outlier on a 12 person jury let someone go free. That's the system, it's played from all angles, how many jurors were unfairly dismissed? How much evidence was unfairly blocked, so the jury only learned of it after they made their decision?

 

[legalese]

Is anyone knowledgeable enough about NYC jails to comment on why LM would go to Rikers? I thought that NYC was phasing Rikers Island out as a place to house prisoners, has shut and is demolishing the MDC in Manhattan and is using the Brooklyn MDC to house P. Diddy - I would think that LM would go to the same place as P. Diddy?

Not that the Brooklyn MDC is particularly nice as an accommodation, but the facilities appear newer and, well, nicer than Rikers?

Anyway, I keep reading that Rikers is closing, hence the use of the Brooklyn facilities for new prisoners. It's about a 30 minute car ride from Manhattan's Criminal Court.

I think their commissary offerings are interesting:

https://www.bop.gov/locations/institutions/bro/bro_commlist.pdf?v=1.0.0

Rikers is a city facility, MDC is federal.

Rikers is supposed to be closing in 2027, but the deadline keeps getting pushed back, and the replacement jails haven’t been built yet.

MCC Manhattan is the federal facility that shut down a number of years ago. MDC Brooklyn is housing their own inmates and those that would have been in the MCC. Rikers inmates are not being transferred to MDC.

 

[10ofRods]

LM's Ivy League Bachelors and Masters cost a pretty penny no doubt. I wonder who payed that bill? The parents, the grandmother? Was he awarded financial assistance considering he graduated from his expensive private HS ($35K/year) as Valedictorian?

Both degrees obtained in 4 years would have cost anywhere from $300K including tuition, room and board, book fees and so on I would guesstimate.

JMO

Interesting point. About 42% of Penn's students are on financial aid (same for most top tier universities). That means that nearly 2/3rds have parents or others who are paying their way.

I am pretty sure that LM's parents are well above the line and would be expected to. I would bet that they *did* pay for it. Parents I know who paid hefty private school tuition do often grouse about it or make it clear to Offspring that they better "do well."

I think your guesstimate is right on.

IMO.

 

[Friday Fan]

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/the-latest-on-the-unitedhealthcare-ceo-killing-suspect-12-19-24#cm4vhj08200003b6mu8iqgd8v

Mangione will appear in federal court today, according to officials​

From CNN's Evan Pérez, Brynn Gingras and Kara Scannell
Luigi Mangione will appear in federal court today, multiple law enforcement officials tell CNN.

When he arrives in New York, Mangione is expected be transported to the federal courthouse in downtown Manhattan, not to the state courthouse where he was originally expected to be taken.

 

[Friday Fan]

Interesting point. About 42% of Penn's students are on financial aid (same for most top tier universities). That means that nearly 2/3rds have parents or others who are paying their way.

I am pretty sure that LM's parents are well above the line and would be expected to. I would bet that they *did* pay for it. Parents I know who paid hefty private school tuition do often grouse about it or make it clear to Offspring that they better "do well."

I think your guesstimate is right on.

IMO.

He very likely also had scholarships. He was his HS valedictorian.

 

[Sincerely]

Bringing this forward from yesterday:
“But the date and Hilton location for the UnitedHealthcare investor conference, where Thompson was set to speak, wasn't publicly announced until two days later on November 26.”

Investigators reveal why they believe Luigi Mangione didn't act alone

Top crime investigators are convinced the suspected UnitedHealthcare CEO shooter carried out the cold-blooded murderer with the help of an accomplice, DailyMail.com can reveal.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I have also wondered about the black SUV with its brake lights on.

 

[10ofRods]

Rikers is a city facility, MDC is federal.

Rikers is supposed to be closing in 2027, but the deadline keeps getting pushed back, and the replacement jails haven’t been built yet.

MCC Manhattan is the federal facility that shut down a number of years ago. MDC Brooklyn is housing their own inmates and those that would have been in the MCC. Rikers inmates are not being transferred to MDC.

Thank you! Is it at all relevant that he's also charged with federal crimes?

On reading further about the problems at Brooklyn MDC, it sounds like a toss-up between two hell holes. I feel for the workers who have to staff these places. If I were LM, I'd be shaking in my boots to go to either place.

I may be wrong, but it looks like P. Diddy's local charges were dropped after the federal charges were filed, so it's starting to make sense to me at last.

Thanks so much!

 

[BUF]

LM is on a plane back to NY. He will be appearing in federal court today.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/the-latest-on-the-unitedhealthcare-ceo-killing-suspect-12-19-24/index.html

 

[Tiff23fr]

<DBM - Can’t find link>

 

[10ofRods]

He very likely also had scholarships. He was his HS valedictorian.

What kinds of scholarships would those be? Penn states that it has scholarships for the financially needy - which is the case at most TT universities.

Tons of high school valedictorians do not get scholarships - especially if they went to expensive private schools. I suppose there can be private funds that specialize in scholarships for rich kids, but I've never seen it (I'm on the West Coast, though - it's possible there are legacy scholarships at Penn).

Scholarships *are* financial aid. 42% of Penn students get any form of financial aid. IME, scholarships for students from families as well off as LM's are few and far between (and usually tied to a grant or field of study; and almost always prominently mentioned on the person's LinkedIn).

Co-terminal degree students like LM typically do not get grant-based scholarships, which are reserved for those actually admitted into doctoral programs that include the master's. Those are super competitive and LM never applied for regular grad school, he went into the job market.

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

I really wonder if he had any idea that this would be the outcome of his actions.
Maybe he is becoming a totally different animal now....

I truly believe he was a chameleon his whole life... so what is he going to become now.

Like many primitive revolutionaries (people who think they are going to accomplish revolutionary change but fail to create any sort of political means for it to happen), he probably is a chameleon, an intense but ever-changing person.

Antonio Gramsci (who to to prison in Italy for his quasi-revolutwhionary activities) chose to be a journalist, but found himself outside the law when the Fascist Party came to power in Rome and decided that Gramsci's writings had led to an attempt on the life of Mussolini.

IOW, Gramsci went to prison over issues related to freedom of the press and freedom of speech (neither of which were being observed as rights in Italy at that time). He didn't shoot anyone.

The story of Gramsci is taught in many university classes about social change. The pen is supposed to be mightier than the sword, but what happens when a society abolishes free use of the pen?

Gramsci was held in terrible conditions in prison for 11 years for writing down his views (and being supportive of Communism in Italy). It was a clear example of political persecution (at least that's what the historians and political scientists say). He died just after being transferred from prison to hospital.

This history has sometimes prompted contemporary revolutionaries to adopt different tactics. I am guessing LM sees himself as a revolutionary. He's no Gramsci (whose writings were brilliantly and intensely well thought-out). But then, LM would probably say that Gramsci, with his pen, was ineffectual.

Notably, neither Marx nor Engels are known to have engaged in highly anti-social behavior in the name of their revolutionary ideals. However, the two of them did get up to minor acts of anti-social behavior in the days before they turned to the pen as their weapon.

Primitive rebellion is a very common tactic in the 20th and 21st centuries.

 

[sds71]

Luigi Mangione faces four federal counts in connection with the death of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

According to a federal criminal complaint unsealed Thursday morning, he’s been charged with murder through use of a firearm, two stalking charges and a firearms offense.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/the-latest-on-the-unitedhealthcare-ceo-killing-suspect-12-19-24/index.html?t=1734623157176

 

[Tiff23fr]

Aug 15 Notebook describes how the details are coming together.
The target is insurance because it checks every box.
This was company. #1.
CNN LIVE: 12:04 EST

IMO:
This is Terrorism - Full Stop
This is to turn us (society) into angry wolves against one another.

Now my question is, who also made a financial gain?

 

[legalese]

Thank you! Is it at all relevant that he's also charged with federal crimes?

On reading further about the problems at Brooklyn MDC, it sounds like a toss-up between two hell holes. I feel for the workers who have to staff these places. If I were LM, I'd be shaking in my boots to go to either place.

I may be wrong, but it looks like P. Diddy's local charges were dropped after the federal charges were filed, so it's starting to make sense to me at last.

Thanks so much!

LM will probably be housed at MDC Brooklyn because he is appearing in federal court first for arraignment. My gut reaction is there was some discussion and negotiation between LM’s attorney, the Manhattan DA’s Office, and the USAO SDNY that led to an agreement that MDC Brooklyn would house LM, perhaps due to safety concerns with Rikers (both on the part of the defense and the prosecution), but who knows. I would not expect the NY state charges to be dropped in this case.

Both MDC Brooklyn and Rikers have significant issues and are unpleasant places to live.

 

[Friday Fan]

What kinds of scholarships would those be? Penn states that it has scholarships for the financially needy - which is the case at most TT universities.

Tons of high school valedictorians do not get scholarships - especially if they went to expensive private schools. I suppose there can be private funds that specialize in scholarships for rich kids, but I've never seen it (I'm on the West Coast, though - it's possible there are legacy scholarships at Penn).

Scholarships *are* financial aid. 42% of Penn students get any form of financial aid. IME, scholarships for students from families as well off as LM's are few and far between (and usually tied to a grant or field of study; and almost always prominently mentioned on the person's LinkedIn).

Co-terminal degree students like LM typically do not get grant-based scholarships, which are reserved for those actually admitted into doctoral programs that include the master's. Those are super competitive and LM never applied for regular grad school, he went into the job market.

IMO.

Two of my kids had scholarships to state schools. Not needs based. Based on academic performance and test scores.

 

[Gemmie]

From the article below, it sounds like Luigi is not going to get a dime of the 30 million, precisely because of what he’s dome.

(Shortened for focus)

Not sure it would even matter if he did get a huge inheritance. One can only buy so much from the prison commissary.