Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #205

[Bergmann]

the round found at the scene was in fact cycled through Richard Allen's firearm specifically.

But not exclusively as the states expert conceded.

 

[rez125]

I'm confused. You think LE techs have manipulated the BG voice to sound like a man when it was what, a woman?

I'm saying the entire video has been played with. The BG is much further away from where the girls were when AW was seen running at the end of the bridge. Seconds later is when the audio that's been described as "down the hill" was "heard".

How did he get across the bridge so quickly to catch up to them?

Did he sprint across it? All I've heard is it's a trecherous bridge and you've gotta look down when moving across it.

 

[Bergmann]

Big week coming up. These confessions are going to be massive either way - IMO the state is going to rely heavily on these to land a conviction unless they’ve got additional evidence we haven’t had sight of yet (ie on top of what we saw in the PCA).

 

[snooptroop88]

But not exclusively as the states expert conceded.

Agreed, it couldn't be with the commentary I'm seeing in MSM, but looking through further recaps, the information looks generally optimistic for the P at many points:

https://wgntv.com/news/indiana/delphi-murders-forensic-firearms-examiner-discusses-toolmark-methodology-unspent-bullet-evidence/

"When court resumed after the 15-minute break, Oberg testified that the cartridge found at the murder scene was cycled through a gun owned by Richard Allen." (Positive for the P)
“I was able to identify [Allen’s gun] as having fired, I’m sorry, cycled [the crime scene cartridge],” she told the court." (Postive for the P)
"Oberg said it wasn’t just her findings either that linked Allen’s gun to the round found at the crime scene. Oberg’s work was reviewed by a second examiner who was not told Oberg’s conclusion but verified her results." (Good for the P)
"During Oberg’s testimony, it was also revealed that Allen’s Sig Saur hadn’t been the only gun tested as a possible match for the crime scene bullet. Eight total guns have been tested in the case, including three guns in 2017 and four sent to a lab in August 2022 — around the same time police were searching the Wabash River....Allen’s gun was the only one to come back as a match to the unspent round found between Abby and Libby." (Very good for the P)

Different source/https://www.carrollcountycomet.com/articles/firearms-expert-testifies-in-delphi-double-murder-trial/:
"Allen’s defense attorney, Bradley Rozzi, spent three hours cross-examining Oberg before finally getting Oberg to admit that the cartridge could have been cycled three different times and through multiple guns." (Okay, how likely is that?)
"Oberg did testify that when the cartridges were cycled through Allen’s weapon, the findings were inconclusive. When fired from Allen’s weapon, she was able to conclude that the cartridge was a match to the gun" (This sounds good for the P)

Another source/https://www.wrtv.com/news/delphi/delphi-murders-trial-day-7-firearms-examiner-focuses-on-40-caliber-cartridge: "On cross-examination by the defense, she acknowledged the markings on cartridges manually ejected from Allen’s gun were not prominent enough for her to conclude if the markings matched." (D successfully boxed her into a corner here, but I'd want more context to know what we mean on the "matched" since she did clearly say the cartridge was cycled through RA's gun; also, if this is where the "not an exact match" I'd seen in earlier coverage came from, I don't know that the P had such a bad day on this as I'd thought. The marks weren't prominent, and I'm guessing that could be the result of many factors being discussed right now on this thread.)

 

[girlhasnoname]

Day 14 in #Justice4Abby&Libby​

 

[Warwick7]

Here’s one. Third holeman interview page 15.

View attachment 541170

The way Holeman was cross examined irritates me.

When he was asked about RA's blanket being taken away. I would have replied, "All inmates experience a "result" when committing infractions. Don't single RA out."

When the defense alluded to insanity confessions. They blamed it on RA going to the bathroom on a video without privacy.... I would have said, "All inmates use the toilet on video, but you don't see all inmates using that stress to confess to muder."

Besides it was documented how much better he was treated than other inmates.

 

[Warwick7]

Here’s one. Third holeman interview page 15.

View attachment 541170

RA did speak extensively about his motivation for killing them when he was on his calls... His motive is what confuses me the most. I hope we hear these calls.

 

[girlhasnoname]

We don’t know how many other devices he got rid of in 5 years- we know he kept 23 (not sure we know they were all his vs family members) and we know that the one from 2017 isn’t among the 23 but he could have gotten rid 57 and ONLY kept 23 devices - we have no idea how many devices he has had over the years … moo

Except RA ironically didn't have THE phone that he said he using on the bridge that day when DD wrote the MEID number down. I'm sure RA was smart enough to bring a clean burner or older phone that had nothing incriminating on it just in case they did actually want to look at it.

Which brings us back to how many coincidences does it take to make it not a coincidence?

MOO

 

[Warwick7]

There are factors that tell us RA felt bad about Abby. He allowed her to have clothes back on. On that paper where he wanted to confess, he listed Abby (then listed Libby as an after thought or had to.) In this deposition RA was bothered by the death of Abby. But, he doesn't have any feelings about Libby, not in the deposition anyway.
:0(

 

[girlhasnoname]

They must have his cellular usage records from his carrier (ATT?)

Was it ever stated that the phone RA showed DD his normal everyday phone? Could it have been a burner phone that wouldn't have been on carrier plan, but rather pay as you go kind of thing?

MOO

 

[Niner]

Monday, October 28th:
*Trial continues (Day 9) (@ 9am ET) – IN – Abigail Joyce Williams (13) & Liberty Rose Lynn German (14) (Missing Feb. 13, 2017, found killed Feb. 14, 2017, after walking on a local hiking trail & were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the Monon High Bridge Trail, Delphi) – *Richard “Ricky/Rick” Matthew Allen (44 @ time of crime/50/now 52) arrested & booked (10/26/22) into the Carroll County Jail & charged & arraigned (10/28/22) with 2 counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims. Plead not guilty. Held without bond.
Amended charges (1/18/24/granted 3/18/24): 2 counts of felony murder (knowingly & intentionally), 2 counts of murder (while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims). Transferred to White County jail from Carroll County for security reasons. And was transferred (11/2/22) to IN. DOC at Westville Correctional Facility at a more secure facility. Was awaiting transfer to Westville Correctional Facility but Judge Gull denied move (6/15/23). She plans to take the arguments under advisement & will make a ruling on whether or not he will be moved out of Westville at a later date. Judge Gull denied move (7/5/23). On 12/6/23 Allen was transferred from Westville to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility (long term segregation). Allen was booked (5/6/24) into the Allen County Jail [for hearing on 5/7/24]. Allen back (5/7/24) to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility. Judge Gull granted transfer of custody to the Carroll County Sheriff [instead of IDOC] but will be held in Cass County jail until trial [8/1/24]. Carroll County
Trial began with jury selection on 10/14/24 & ended 10/15/24.
Trial began on 10/18/24. Mondays thru Fridays from 9am to 6pm. Saturdays from 9am to noon.
*12 jurors (7 women & 5 men) & 4 alternates [3 women & 1 man]. One alternate was dismissed for a family emergency. 3 Alternates left (3 women). Jury is sequestered.
Allen County Judge Frances C. Gull presiding. Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland & Special Prosecutor James David Luttrull, Jr.
Andrew Baldwin & Bradley Rozzi are Allen’s public appointed attorneys & added Jennifer Auger [addressing the circumstances surrounding digital forensics].
Charges, case & court info from 4/19/21 thru 10/11/24 & Jury Selection Day 1-2 (10/14-10/15/24) & thru 10/16/24 & Trial Day 1-7 (10/18-10/25/24) reference post #4 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...hi-murders-richard-allen-arrested-205.727220/
10/26/24 Saturday, Trial Day 8: State witness: Indiana State Police Lt. Jerry Holeman lead investigator. He interviewed Richard Allen on Oct. 26, 2022. Per Defense Attorney Andrew Baldwin, Allen was interviewed on October 13th & 26th of 2022. The defense now wants the videos of those interviews to be played in court. According to Special Judge Fran Gull, those videos will be played next week.
For more info see post #743 (Day 8 blog) here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/...ers-richard-allen-arrested-204.727056/page-38
Trial continues on Monday, 10/28/24 @ 9am.

 

[shonyakay]

I'm saying the entire video has been played with. The BG is much further away from where the girls were when AW was seen running at the end of the bridge. Seconds later is when the audio that's been described as "down the hill" was "heard".

How did he get across the bridge so quickly to catch up to them?

Did he sprint across it? All I've heard is it's a trecherous bridge and you've gotta look down when moving across it.

"BG" is closer to the girls in the video then you think. The girls are at the end of the bridge on the "Down the Hill" side. There are 6 platforms on the bridge. The girls' are somewhere between the end of the 5th platform and the very end of the bridge when the video starts. "BG" is just past the 5th platform heading toward the girls'.

 

[INfisherman]

I'm saying the entire video has been played with. The BG is much further away from where the girls were when AW was seen running at the end of the bridge. Seconds later is when the audio that's been described as "down the hill" was "heard".

How did he get across the bridge so quickly to catch up to them?

Did he sprint across it? All I've heard is it's a trecherous bridge and you've gotta look down when moving across it.

Regarding the treacherous condition, at the time of the murders, it was in good enough condition that parents let their young teen children walk across it unsupervised & supposedly not an uncommon event to happen. I’m sure a YT video would be able to be found to give an indication, one probably fairly recently (within 1-2 years or less).

100% MOO

Edited to remove misunderstood info clarified below by @iamshadow21.

 

[iamshadow21]

Regarding the treacherous condition, at the time of the murders, it was in good enough condition that parents let their young teen children walk across it unsupervised & supposedly not an uncommon event to happen. If I’m understanding correctly, today it is in an obviously worse condition than it was 7 years ago & additional barriers have been added at one or both ends making it more difficult to pass into the bridge. I’m sure a YT video would be able to be found to give an indication, one probably fairly recently (within 1-2 years or less).

100% MOO

It's actually in much better condition than it was seven years ago, due to major restoration project.

If you want to know what it was like pre restoration, there are plenty of photos and videos out there. Rotting and missing ties, no railings, and a long drop. Fun for some, but not my cup of tea.

MOO

 

[shonyakay]

The following is where "BG", Abby, and Libby were on the bridge shortly before and during the commission of the crime.

There are 6 platforms on the Monon High Bridge.

At 1:46 p.m.
Betsy Blair arrives at the Mears' entrance. Betsy heads to the High Bridge and sees "BG" standing on Platform 1.

Looking South. Platform 1 is to the right.



At 2:05 p.m.
In between Platform 2 and 3, Libby takes a Snapchat photo of just the bridge.

Libby's photo of the bridge. Looking South. Platform 3 is up ahead to the right.



In between Platform 2 and 3, you can see that the markings on the planks on the bridge are the same exact markings observed in Libby's bridge photo.



At 2:07 p.m.
Libby is on Platform 3 facing the North side
and takes a Snapchat picture of Abby walking across the bridge.

Looking North. Libby's photo of Abby walking in between Platform 2 and 3. Platform 1 is in the distance to the left.



At 2:13 p.m.
Looking South. Platform 5 is directly to the right. "BG" is walking ahead of Platform 5, heading towards the end of the bridge ("Down the Hill" side.) You can see this Platform behind "BG" in Libby's cellphone video. Platform 6 is in the distance to the left.



A still photo of "BG" walking ahead of Platform 5 from Libby's cellphone video.



At the beginning of this picture is the very end of bridge. This is the "Down the Hill" side of the bridge, looking North. In Libby's video, Abby and Libby are heading South to the "Down the Hill" side of the bridge, somewhere between the end of Platform 5 (in the distance to the left) and the very end of the bridge, which is at the beginning of this picture.



Now turn around and face South again at the very end of the "Down the Hill" side of the bridge. Looking to the left, this is the view of "Down the Hill," where the girls' were forced to go.




I hope this helps.

 

[rez125]

The following is where "BG", Abby, and Libby were on the bridge shortly before and during the commission of the crime.

There are 6 platforms on the Monon High Bridge.

At 1:46 p.m.
Betsy Blair arrives at the Mears' entrance. Betsy heads to the High Bridge and sees "BG" standing on Platform 1.

Looking South. Platform 1 is to the right.

View attachment 541208

At 2:05 p.m.
In between Platform 2 and 3, Libby takes a Snapchat photo of just the bridge.

Libby's photo of the bridge. Looking South. Platform 3 is up ahead to the right.

View attachment 541209

In between Platform 2 and 3, you can see that the markings on the planks on the bridge are the same exact markings observed in Libby's bridge photo.

View attachment 541211

At 2:07 p.m.
Libby is on Platform 3 facing the North side
and takes a Snapchat picture of Abby walking across the bridge.

Looking North. Libby's photo of Abby walking in between Platform 2 and 3. Platform 1 is in the distance to the left.

View attachment 541212

At 2:13 p.m.
Looking South. Platform 5 is directly to the right. "BG" is walking ahead of Platform 5, heading towards the end of the bridge ("Down the Hill" side.) You can see this Platform behind "BG" in Libby's cellphone video. Platform 6 is in the distance to the left.

View attachment 541214

A still photo of "BG" walking ahead of Platform 5 from Libby's cellphone video.

View attachment 541216

At the beginning of this picture is the very end of bridge. This is the "Down the Hill" side of the bridge, looking North. In Libby's video, Abby and Libby are heading South to the "Down the Hill" side of the bridge, somewhere between the end of Platform 5 (in the distance to the left) and the very end of the bridge, which is at the beginning of this picture.

View attachment 541219

Now turn around and face South again at the very end of the "Down the Hill" side of the bridge. Looking to the left, this is the view of "Down the Hill," where the girls' were forced to go.

View attachment 541221


I hope this helps.

Has anyone who watched the full video shown the other day said he was close to them at the beginning of it?

 

[shonyakay]

Has anyone who watched the full video shown the other day said he was close to them at the beginning of it?

Only saw those who lean towards RA's innocence trying to insinuate such.

The Murder Sheet described the video in detail and mentioned that you can see the planks of the bridge and some gravel. I trust their description because the only way you are going to see gravel is very close to the end of the bridge ("DTH" side) which is the private drive going under the bridge.

 

[INfisherman]

Has anyone who watched the full video shown the other day said he was close to them at the beginning of it?

By anyone, you mean at the trial, correct? If so, I do not recall any reported descriptions of how far apart video subjects may or may not have been. Of note, I do not choose to be guided by anyone on YT offering their perspective on things, as I believe eyewitness testimony in this case shows how different people can see the same things differently.

ETA apart

 

[rez125]

Only saw those who lean towards RA's innocence trying to insinuate such.

The Murder Sheet described the video in detail and mentioned that you can see the planks of the bridge and some gravel. I trust their description because the only way you are going to see gravel is very close to the end of the bridge ("DTH" side) which is the private drive going under the bridge.

Nobody is disputing where the girls were when the video was taken.

I'm talking about how far BG was off in the distance.

 

[rez125]

By anyone, you mean at the trial, correct? If so, I do not recall any reported descriptions of how far video subjects may or may not have been. Of note, I do not choose to be guided by anyone on YT offering their perspective on things, as I believe eyewitness testimony in this case shows how different people can see the same things differently.

So, the same logic would apply to official reporters who viewed it?

They'd all have different perspectives on the clip?