4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #100

[INfisherman]

It's not beyond ALL doubt.

JMO

RSBM

100%. That right there. And it’s completely lost to some.

MOO

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

That is only corroborating evidence if they can prove it was HIS white Elantra. There is no proof of this as far as I know. There's no video that shows the driver or gives any evidence that it is his car.

As far as I know, we also don't know that he drove by the crime scene later that morning. I'm not sure where that came from.



Again, you're mixing up facts with theory here. Yes, he submitted an alibi about stargazing. We don't know if his phone was off or out of a service area (last I heard) and again, we don't know that is his vehicle. That is a white Elantra. He drives a white Elantra. But there is no evidence that is his white Elantra. The prosecution will have to prove that in court.

MOO

RSBMBFF,

“That is only corroborating evidence if they can prove it was HIS white Elantra. There is no proof of this as far as I know. There's no video that shows the driver or gives any evidence that it is his car.”

Respectfully, IIUC and IMO that might not need to be the case. At least not in this case of suspect BK in Idaho. IANAL nor associated with this case. Yet it seems such a premise above is where the matter of ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’ and ‘all’ doubt might enter.

From the evidence pointing to the accused BK released thus far publicly or in court filings, authorities might only need to show that it was A white Elantra.

And fortunately, perhaps it will be more apparent once this trial starts. And when evidence is presented before a jury. Until that time it is difficult to know what other evidence exists and will enter, and there is a gag order in place.

I cannot count how many times either in these threads or on a true solved-crime episode on TV there is grainy video of a vehicle seen at a distance in a poor resolution CCTV or surveillance camera. And those images, once either studied by knowledgeable experts, refined, or compared with other factors and evidence in the case - help lead to a conviction. MOO

 

[pseudo_hum]

RSBMBFF,

“That is only corroborating evidence if they can prove it was HIS white Elantra. There is no proof of this as far as I know. There's no video that shows the driver or gives any evidence that it is his car.”

Respectfully, IIUC and IMO that might not need to be the case. At least not on this case of suspect BK in Idaho. IANAL nor associated with this case. Yet it seems such a premise above is where the matter of ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’ and ‘all’ doubt might enter.

From the evidence pointing to the accused BK released thus far publicly or in court filings, authorities might only need to show that it was A white Elantra.

And fortunately, perhaps it will be more apparent once this trial starts. And when evidence is presented before a jury. Until that time it is difficult to know what other evidence exists and will enter, and there is a gag order in place.

I cannot count how many times either in these threads or on a true solved-crime episode on TV there is grainy video of a vehicle seen at a distance in a poor resolution CCTV or surveillance camera. And those images, once either studied by knowledgeable experts, refined, or compared with other factors and evidence in the case - lead to a conviction. MOO

Agreed, I believe I read where there is video evidence of the (one) white Elantra driving through the neighborhood the minutes prior to the time of the murders, and then quickly leaving. No other white Elantra's were captured by video driving through the area at that time.

 

[Gigiky]

Wasn't this the same way they caught The Golden State killer?

 

[SteveP]

Much ado about nothing, it seems. The presence of touch DNA on an item only indicates that the person had contact with the object at some point. It does not necessarily mean that the person was involved in the crime. Without the knife itself, there is no direct evidence linking the sheath to the actual murder weapon. The knife could have been discarded, stolen, or replaced, making it impossible to conclusively determine that the sheath belonged to the murder weapon. The timing and location of when the DNA was deposited on the sheath are crucial factors. The DNA could have been placed on the sheath days, weeks, or even months before the crime occurred, making it difficult to establish a direct connection between the DNA and the crime. To establish a clear link between the sheath and the crime, the chain of custody must be meticulously documented. Any gaps or inconsistencies in the chain of custody could raise doubts about the reliability of the evidence.

Much ado about nothing?

We know that BK bought a Ka-Bar knife and sheath from Amazon some 7 months before the murders.
A Ka-Bar knife sheath, remarkably like the one he purchased was found in bed with 2 of 4 murdered victims.
The knife sheath, found in the bed with 2 victims, had DNA that statistically matched BK.
The victims were carved up with a weapon consistent with such a knife.
The Ka-Bar knife that BK owned was never found, just seems to have magically disappeared after the murders.
A car, matching the description of BK's was coincidentally in the immediate area of the King St house at the approximate time of the murders, and his phone, which traced him leaving his home in Pullman, driving toward Moscow and then returning home during the crucial time frame, was coincidentally turned off during the time a white Elantra, matching his, was near the site of the murders.
BK's attorney has admitted that he was about driving around at that time, but not over there.

I could go on and on, but there really is no need. Surely, without actually seeing the knife, a reasonable juror may never connect any of these other events to the murders. Good thing it got lost (surely it was not thrown away), else he would certainly appear to be the murderer. JMO

 

[mrjitty]

BBM

That may be true. But it sounds an awful lot like saying it's up to AT to prove BK is innocent. I don't think it's supposed to work that way.
MOO

Of course the defendant does not have to prove anything. But if his defence goes from passive to active - asking the Jury to believe in an exculpatory theory, of course the Jury will likely need the defendant to point to evidential foundation and not mere speculation

This is the difference between the overall burden of proof (always on the state), and evidential burdens which are different.

I guess at the simplest level, if you ask a juror to believe a story, as a practical matter, you will tend to need to point to some facts the jurors accept as established, and not just a tale you tell.

IMO

 

[Megnut]

RSBMBFF,

“That is only corroborating evidence if they can prove it was HIS white Elantra. There is no proof of this as far as I know. There's no video that shows the driver or gives any evidence that it is his car.”

Respectfully, IIUC and IMO that might not need to be the case. At least not in this case of suspect BK in Idaho. IANAL nor associated with this case. Yet it seems such a premise above is where the matter of ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’ and ‘all’ doubt might enter.

From the evidence pointing to the accused BK released thus far publicly or in court filings, authorities might only need to show that it was A white Elantra.

And fortunately, perhaps it will be more apparent once this trial starts. And when evidence is presented before a jury. Until that time it is difficult to know what other evidence exists and will enter, and there is a gag order in place.

I cannot count how many times either in these threads or on a true solved-crime episode on TV there is grainy video of a vehicle seen at a distance in a poor resolution CCTV or surveillance camera. And those images, once either studied by knowledgeable experts, refined, or compared with other factors and evidence in the case - help lead to a conviction. MOO

Exactly.

And it appears that the State is prepared to answer that question for the jury.

Grainy nighttime footage, looks like an Elantra. Might be 2011-13. Might be later. Hard to tell. Might not have a front plate. Turned this way, turned that way, was on the cctv, not on that cctv.

But.... LE has triangulation. In broad daylight. BK, with his cellphone riding shotgun,driving his Elantra.

So now, for the Doubting Thomases who might be in the jury, the State will IMO show the grainy videos that they'll say are unequivocally BK's Elantra (but still subject to jury doubt) ... follong BK's Elantra from his apartment in Pullman to Moscow, looping until stopping, speeding away and then ultimately returning to his campus parking lot, from which he leaves but a few hours later, and this time, with his phone, with thr car fully visible (I presume), stepping out of the car.

So AT would have the jury believe that BK got in his 2015 Elantra and drove all over the far side of Moscow where there weren't cell towers while a different driver drove a 2011-13 Elantra to Moscow and murdered the victims.

Maybe you'll get a juror or two who remain skeptical of the nighttime video but is the case going to HINGE on that? In the Delphi case, a juror said that the jury basically dismissed a key piece of State's evidence. They didn't say whether they DOUBTED it, they just didn't USE it to reach their verdict (guilty). I see that here. The Elentra is interesting. Compelling. Answers to how the killer got there, how he got away. Defendant's own car, maybe you can't rule his in but you certainly can't time it out so maybe they'll cancel it out. Be satisfied it COULD be his car.

To critical evidence. The defendant's DNA.

And if they circle back to the car, they can picture BK that day, at the store, car, subject, cellphone. It fits with the car in the grainy footage.

Jurors like that sort of thing

JMO

 

[arielilane]

Below is a detailed, speculative reconstruction of what may have happened on the morning of November 13, 2022, when BK is alleged to have killed four (4) University of Idaho students—Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin—at 1122 King Road, Moscow, ID. This is based on information from the probable cause affidavit dated December 29, 2022, publicly available details, and reasonable inferences. Since many specifics remain undisclosed due to a gag order and ongoing legal proceedings, this account includes speculative elements to fill in gaps, while staying grounded in the known facts.

Keep in mind: All times are approximate and based on the affidavit and related reports.

---

The Night Leading Up to the Murders (November 12–13, 2022)

The four victims spent the evening of November 12 enjoying typical college activities. Kaylee Goncalves and Madison Mogen, lifelong best friends, went out to the Corner Club bar in Moscow, later stopping at a food truck around 1:40 a.m. before returning home to 1122 King Road by 1:56 a.m.

Meanwhile, Xana Kernodle and her boyfriend Ethan Chapin attended a party at the Sigma Chi fraternity house. They returned to the King Road residence around 1:45 a.m. The house, a three-story rental near campus, was home to five female students, though only four were present that night, along with Ethan as a guest. Two other roommates, DM and BF, were also home and had returned earlier after their own outings.

By around 2:00 a.m., the house likely settled into a quiet state, with the victims retiring to their rooms. Kaylee and Madison shared a third-floor bedroom, while Xana and Ethan were in Xana’s second-floor room. The surviving roommates were on the first floor, separated from the upper levels.

BK’s Movements (Speculative Build-Up)
BK, a 28-year-old criminology Ph.D. student at WSU in nearby Pullman, WA, lived about 10 miles from Moscow. The affidavit indicates he had been in the vicinity of 1122 King Road at least 12 times prior to November 13, often late at night or early in the morning, suggesting he may have been observing the house or its occupants for weeks or months.

On this night, his phone pinged a cell tower near his Pullman apartment at 2:42 a.m., indicating he was still at home. Five minutes later, at 2:47 a.m., his phone pinged again as it began moving south through Pullman, before going silent until 4:48 a.m. This gap suggests he may have turned off his phone or put it in airplane mode to avoid tracking—a detail the affidavit describes as consistent with concealing his location during the murders.

Speculatively, BK may have left his apartment shortly after 2:47 a.m., driving his white 2015 Hyundai Elantra toward Moscow. Surveillance footage later captured a white Elantra—matching his vehicle’s description—passing near 1122 King Road three times between 3:29 a.m. and 4:04 a.m. He could have been circling the area, possibly assessing the house, ensuring it was quiet, or steeling himself for what was to come. The affidavit doesn’t specify his exact entry point, but the back sliding door on the second floor, accessible from a wooded hillside, is a plausible option given its relative seclusion.


The Attack (Approximately 4:00–4:20 a.m.)

Around 4:00 a.m., BK likely entered the house, possibly wearing dark clothing and a mask, as described by surviving roommate DM. The affidavit suggests he carried a fixed-blade knife, potentially a Ka-Bar (kill-a-bear)-style weapon with a Marine Corps insignia, based on the sheath left behind. His entry may have been silent, taking advantage of the late hour when the occupants were likely asleep.

Second Floor: Xana Kernodle and Ethan Chapin
BK may have first encountered Xana and Ethan in Xana’s second-floor bedroom. Autopsies later revealed all victims were stabbed multiple times, with some showing defensive wounds, indicating a struggle. Speculatively, Ethan, a 20-year-old guest staying over, might have woken to a sound or movement, prompting BK to attack him first. Xana, alerted by the commotion, could have tried to defend herself or Ethan, leading to a brief but violent confrontation. The affidavit notes a knife sheath was found on the third floor, not the second, suggesting BK carried it with him as he moved through the house. The attack here was likely quick, with multiple stab wounds silencing both victims within minutes.

Third Floor: Kaylee Goncalves and Madison Mogen

BK then ascended to the third floor, entering the bedroom shared by Kaylee and Madison. The two 21-year-olds were likely asleep in the same bed, a detail inferred from the sheath’s location next to Madison’s body. The affidavit doesn’t specify the order of attack, but Kaylee’s autopsy showed more extensive injuries, possibly indicating she woke and resisted, while Madison may have been killed more swiftly. The violence here was brutal and efficient, with BK allegedly stabbing both women repeatedly in the chest and upper body. The sheath, bearing his DNA on the button snap, was left behind—perhaps dislodged during the struggle or dropped in haste.

Around this time, surviving roommate DM awoke around 4:00 a.m., initially hearing what she thought was Kaylee playing with her dog upstairs. Moments later, she heard crying from Xana’s room and a male voice saying, “It’s okay, I’m going to help you.” This could have been BK, possibly attempting to quiet Xana before or during the attack, though it’s unclear if DM heard this in real-time or as a delayed perception. The affidavit estimates the murders occurred between 4:00 and 4:25 a.m., aligning with this sequence.


The Aftermath and Escape (Approximately 4:17–4:20 a.m.)

At 4:17 a.m., DM opened her bedroom door after hearing more sounds—possibly whimpers or footsteps—and saw a figure clad in black, wearing a mask, walking toward the back sliding door. She described him as 5’10” or taller, male, athletically built but not muscular, with bushy eyebrows. Frozen in shock, she watched as he passed her and exited. This encounter suggests BK completed the killings and was leaving the scene, unaware or unconcerned that he’d been seen.

Surveillance footage captured the white Elantra making a fourth pass near the house at 4:04 a.m., then speeding away at 4:20 a.m. Speculatively, BK may have exited the house, returned to his car parked nearby—perhaps in a secluded spot off the road—and fled toward Pullman. His phone remained off until 4:48 a.m., when it pinged again south of Moscow, consistent with him driving back to Washington. By 5:30 a.m., campus security footage at WSU showed a similar white sedan returning to Pullman, suggesting he was back at his apartment within an hour of the murders.
Immediate Aftermath (Morning of November 13)

Around 9:00 a.m., BK’s phone pinged near 1122 King Road again, possibly indicating he returned to the area—perhaps to check if the crimes had been discovered or out of curiosity. The bodies remained undiscovered until 11:58 a.m., when one of the surviving roommates, called 911 after finding the scene. Police arrived to find a horrific crime scene: four students dead, blood throughout the upper floors, and a tan leather knife sheath as the key piece of physical evidence.

---

Speculative Context and Motivation

Kohberger’s motives remain unknown, as the affidavit and subsequent reports offer no clear explanation. His background in criminology and prior interest in criminal behavior (evidenced by a Reddit post seeking participants for a crime-related study) suggest he may have been driven by a fascination with violence or a desire to execute a “perfect crime.” The repeated visits to the King Road area imply premeditation, possibly targeting the house or its occupants for reasons yet undisclosed—whether personal, random, or symbolic. The lack of forced entry and the late-night timing suggest he exploited the vulnerability of a sleeping household.

This reconstruction speculates on the sequence and actions based on the affidavit’s timeline, surveillance data, and DM’s account. However, critical details—like the exact order of the killings, BK’s emotional state, or whether he knew the victims—remain unconfirmed. The trial, scheduled for August 11, 2025, may shed further light, but for now, this narrative blends fact with plausible conjecture to depict that tragic morning.


Case Summary (Updated 02/20/25)

• 12/29/2022 Affidavit

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

 

[NCWatcher]

Of course the defendant does not have to prove anything. But if his defence goes from passive to active - asking the Jury to believe in an exculpatory theory, of course the Jury will likely need the defendant to point to evidential foundation and not mere speculation

This is the difference between the overall burden of proof (always on the state), and evidential burdens which are different.

I guess at the simplest level, if you ask a juror to believe a story, as a practical matter, you will tend to need to point to some facts the jurors accept as established, and not just a tale you tell.

IMO

Hmmm, tell that to Jose Baez!

MOO

 

[jepop]

Agreed, I believe I read where there is video evidence of the (one) white Elantra driving through the neighborhood the minutes prior to the time of the murders, and then quickly leaving. No other white Elantra's were captured by video driving through the area at that time.

I believe the state will connect Suspect Vehicle 1 with BK's Elantra and phone via logical inference. More precise CSL data for the post-crime 4.48am ping isn't available to the public at present, but I can envisage the state making a very strong circumstantial case for connecting the Elantra seen speeding away from 1122 King Road with the 4.48am phone ping ( BK's car is attached and subsequent pings have the phone moving at driving speed back towards Pullman where it is then shown on camera multiple times from around 5.25am).

I think the video specialist will testify that after 4.20am, no white Elantras were captured on video leaving the King Road neighbourhood via hwy 8/95/ main street, east, north or south. Per PCA it will be shown SV1 logically had to have exited onto Palouse Drive from Conestoga, to the south of King Road. Jmo

From there, I think a specialist LE witness will testify to no white Elantras shown on video driving on main drags for the relevant times. It's possible, the jury will be shown the logical route SV1 would have taken to leave Moscow undetected. And this will coincide timing wise with the approx location of BK's vehicle when his phone is suddenly turned on 20 minutes south of Moscow. Moo

If CSL and/or gps data shows the location as hwy 95 adjacent to Blaine, then there is a hypothetical and logical route SV1 could have taken to get there to avoid cameras on the main drags leaving Moscow. This is; from Palouse at Conestoga drive west on Sand Road, then south on another road ( name forgotten) then south east on Snow road which leads back to hwy 95 adjacent to Blaine. Moo

I believe LE will be able to show that no other white Elantras were captured via video on the main routes out of Moscow after 4.20am and that BK coming back online where and when he does makes perfect logical sense if he had travelled from King Road at 4.20am. The jury will be able to make the logical inference that SV1 and BK's Elantra are one and the same. Speculation.

 

[MassGuy]

BBM. What murder weapon?

You know, the knife to massacre four college students. They don't have his DNA on the knife, but they have it on the next best thing. An item the killer had to touch, on a part of that item the killer absolutely had to touch. Doesn't get much better than that, especially considering you rarely have the murder weapon in a first degree murder case like this.

 

[Arkay]

So what? BK is not an ordinary man, and he has a diagnosis to confirm that. However, this speaks more in his defense than against him. I find it hard to picture someone with OCD not putting the sheath back on a $300 knife and walking out of the house without a thorough clean-up. In fact, his specific traits make him an unlikely candidate to actually use a knife for murder, even if he wanted to commit one. He is too clumsy for such an exercise. JMO.

I don’t know him personally, but unless you do know him, these are assumptions that IMO none of us are qualified to make.

He’s not ordinary, certainly, because an ordinary person does not murder four young people.

How can outsiders like us determine that his OCD would compel him to do a “thorough clean-up” before leaving the house? I’d imagine his first priority would be to get away before he was caught. If his OCD necessitated that he do a thorough clean-up before exiting, he’d have had to stay for hours upon hours, given that there was so much blood that it was visibly dripping on the EXTERIOR of the house.

How do we know that he was “an unlikely candidate to actually use a knife for murder?” How do we know that “he was too clumsy for such an exercise?”

We DON’T know these things.

Furthermore, the adrenaline unleashed in the act of a quadruple murder would potentially enable him to perform in a way that supersedes his abilities in his daily life.

Of course it’s plausible that he wouldn’t have intentionally left the sheath behind. Too bad for him that in the frenzy his sheath was left near/beneath Maddie’s bloody body.

This is my opinion. It’s a given that I don’t know to what degree he is clumsy, doesn’t favor a knife, and feels compelled to clean up prior to escaping.

 

[SortaSleuthy]

Not to mention the item left behind is one that 1) can reasonably be connected to the exact type of wounds seen on the victims and 2) is in a location directly connected to the crime.

1) It wasn't a stuffed animal, a pen, or a bracelet with a Goodwill sticker on it. The murders were committed with a knife--the item left behind with DNA from a person who had no business being there is an item that is inherently connected with knives. They weren't killed by a gunshot and then a knife sheath was found in the bed with two of the victims.

The mental gymnastics required to think that a knife sheath that is underneath victims who died by being attacked with a knife is NOT connected to the crime is stunning.

2) The knife sheath wasn't found in the laundry room, a closet, or in a drawer. It is in the same room as 2 people who were killed by a weapon that by its very nature has a natural association with a knife sheath. Additionally, it is found in bed with, between, and slightly under 2 women who were killed with a knife. A bed is not where people keep knife sheaths. People do not sleep on top of knife sheaths. People don't leave their own empty knife sheath in bed with them, have their friend sleep in bed with them as well, and neither of them notice it.

And if somehow that sheath belonged to MM or KG, like they bought it for personal protection at a local military surplus store where BK had just happened to snap it open and then decided not to buy it---why isn't either of the girls DNA mentioned as being found in the snap? MM or KG (whoever supposedly bought it in some theory) never snapped open the sheath in the store or once they got it home? How terribly unlucky for poor BK who just was a victim of circumstance and terrible luck.

And then we keep having the case of how Lukis Anderson was falsely accused of murdering Raveesh Kumra because a tiny amount of his DNA was found on Raveesh's fingernail. Transfer was found to be the cause...by the same EMT who had taken Anderson to the hospital being a responding EMT who just three hours later took Kumra's vitals in attempt to see if he was still alive.

You can bet your bottom dollar the defense team has searched high and low to find some close proximity connection that they could use to explain transfer or lab contamination. Don't you think that if AT had found something, like one of the responding detectives or forensic team members having any knowable contact with BK in the days prior to the crime, we'd be hearing all about that instead of this fight about the IGG and Franks motions??? In Anderson's case when the defense team and the police and the prosecutor figured this out, charges were dropped before he had to go to trial.

Bravo!

 

[MassGuy]

it’s why i wonder if most of this stuff is intended for the gallery and not the Judge.

Of course it is, which is why they wanted open hearings.

That doesn’t help them make their argument to the judge, but it does allow them to spread misinformation to the public.

The same misinformation that seemed to annoy the judge in his orders.

 

[SortaSleuthy]

Below is a detailed, speculative reconstruction of what may have happened on the morning of November 13, 2022, when BK is alleged to have killed four (4) University of Idaho students—Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin—at 1122 King Road, Moscow, ID. This is based on information from the probable cause affidavit dated December 29, 2022, publicly available details, and reasonable inferences. Since many specifics remain undisclosed due to a gag order and ongoing legal proceedings, this account includes speculative elements to fill in gaps, while staying grounded in the known facts.

Keep in mind: All times are approximate and based on the affidavit and related reports.

---

The Night Leading Up to the Murders (November 12–13, 2022)

The four victims spent the evening of November 12 enjoying typical college activities. Kaylee Goncalves and Madison Mogen, lifelong best friends, went out to the Corner Club bar in Moscow, later stopping at a food truck around 1:40 a.m. before returning home to 1122 King Road by 1:56 a.m.

Meanwhile, Xana Kernodle and her boyfriend Ethan Chapin attended a party at the Sigma Chi fraternity house. They returned to the King Road residence around 1:45 a.m. The house, a three-story rental near campus, was home to five female students, though only four were present that night, along with Ethan as a guest. Two other roommates, DM and BF, were also home and had returned earlier after their own outings.

By around 2:00 a.m., the house likely settled into a quiet state, with the victims retiring to their rooms. Kaylee and Madison shared a third-floor bedroom, while Xana and Ethan were in Xana’s second-floor room. The surviving roommates were on the first floor, separated from the upper levels.

BK’s Movements (Speculative Build-Up)
BK, a 28-year-old criminology Ph.D. student at WSU in nearby Pullman, WA, lived about 10 miles from Moscow. The affidavit indicates he had been in the vicinity of 1122 King Road at least 12 times prior to November 13, often late at night or early in the morning, suggesting he may have been observing the house or its occupants for weeks or months.

On this night, his phone pinged a cell tower near his Pullman apartment at 2:42 a.m., indicating he was still at home. Five minutes later, at 2:47 a.m., his phone pinged again as it began moving south through Pullman, before going silent until 4:48 a.m. This gap suggests he may have turned off his phone or put it in airplane mode to avoid tracking—a detail the affidavit describes as consistent with concealing his location during the murders.

Speculatively, BK may have left his apartment shortly after 2:47 a.m., driving his white 2015 Hyundai Elantra toward Moscow. Surveillance footage later captured a white Elantra—matching his vehicle’s description—passing near 1122 King Road three times between 3:29 a.m. and 4:04 a.m. He could have been circling the area, possibly assessing the house, ensuring it was quiet, or steeling himself for what was to come. The affidavit doesn’t specify his exact entry point, but the back sliding door on the second floor, accessible from a wooded hillside, is a plausible option given its relative seclusion.


The Attack (Approximately 4:00–4:20 a.m.)

Around 4:00 a.m., BK likely entered the house, possibly wearing dark clothing and a mask, as described by surviving roommate DM. The affidavit suggests he carried a fixed-blade knife, potentially a Ka-Bar (kill-a-bear)-style weapon with a Marine Corps insignia, based on the sheath left behind. His entry may have been silent, taking advantage of the late hour when the occupants were likely asleep.

Second Floor: Xana Kernodle and Ethan Chapin
BK may have first encountered Xana and Ethan in Xana’s second-floor bedroom. Autopsies later revealed all victims were stabbed multiple times, with some showing defensive wounds, indicating a struggle. Speculatively, Ethan, a 20-year-old guest staying over, might have woken to a sound or movement, prompting BK to attack him first. Xana, alerted by the commotion, could have tried to defend herself or Ethan, leading to a brief but violent confrontation. The affidavit notes a knife sheath was found on the third floor, not the second, suggesting BK carried it with him as he moved through the house. The attack here was likely quick, with multiple stab wounds silencing both victims within minutes.

Third Floor: Kaylee Goncalves and Madison Mogen

BK then ascended to the third floor, entering the bedroom shared by Kaylee and Madison. The two 21-year-olds were likely asleep in the same bed, a detail inferred from the sheath’s location next to Madison’s body. The affidavit doesn’t specify the order of attack, but Kaylee’s autopsy showed more extensive injuries, possibly indicating she woke and resisted, while Madison may have been killed more swiftly. The violence here was brutal and efficient, with BK allegedly stabbing both women repeatedly in the chest and upper body. The sheath, bearing his DNA on the button snap, was left behind—perhaps dislodged during the struggle or dropped in haste.

Around this time, surviving roommate DM awoke around 4:00 a.m., initially hearing what she thought was Kaylee playing with her dog upstairs. Moments later, she heard crying from Xana’s room and a male voice saying, “It’s okay, I’m going to help you.” This could have been BK, possibly attempting to quiet Xana before or during the attack, though it’s unclear if DM heard this in real-time or as a delayed perception. The affidavit estimates the murders occurred between 4:00 and 4:25 a.m., aligning with this sequence.


The Aftermath and Escape (Approximately 4:17–4:20 a.m.)

At 4:17 a.m., DM opened her bedroom door after hearing more sounds—possibly whimpers or footsteps—and saw a figure clad in black, wearing a mask, walking toward the back sliding door. She described him as 5’10” or taller, male, athletically built but not muscular, with bushy eyebrows. Frozen in shock, she watched as he passed her and exited. This encounter suggests BK completed the killings and was leaving the scene, unaware or unconcerned that he’d been seen.

Surveillance footage captured the white Elantra making a fourth pass near the house at 4:04 a.m., then speeding away at 4:20 a.m. Speculatively, BK may have exited the house, returned to his car parked nearby—perhaps in a secluded spot off the road—and fled toward Pullman. His phone remained off until 4:48 a.m., when it pinged again south of Moscow, consistent with him driving back to Washington. By 5:30 a.m., campus security footage at WSU showed a similar white sedan returning to Pullman, suggesting he was back at his apartment within an hour of the murders.
Immediate Aftermath (Morning of November 13)

Around 9:00 a.m., BK’s phone pinged near 1122 King Road again, possibly indicating he returned to the area—perhaps to check if the crimes had been discovered or out of curiosity. The bodies remained undiscovered until 11:58 a.m., when one of the surviving roommates, called 911 after finding the scene. Police arrived to find a horrific crime scene: four students dead, blood throughout the upper floors, and a tan leather knife sheath as the key piece of physical evidence.

---

Speculative Context and Motivation

Kohberger’s motives remain unknown, as the affidavit and subsequent reports offer no clear explanation. His background in criminology and prior interest in criminal behavior (evidenced by a Reddit post seeking participants for a crime-related study) suggest he may have been driven by a fascination with violence or a desire to execute a “perfect crime.” The repeated visits to the King Road area imply premeditation, possibly targeting the house or its occupants for reasons yet undisclosed—whether personal, random, or symbolic. The lack of forced entry and the late-night timing suggest he exploited the vulnerability of a sleeping household.

This reconstruction speculates on the sequence and actions based on the affidavit’s timeline, surveillance data, and DM’s account. However, critical details—like the exact order of the killings, BK’s emotional state, or whether he knew the victims—remain unconfirmed. The trial, scheduled for August 11, 2025, may shed further light, but for now, this narrative blends fact with plausible conjecture to depict that tragic morning.


Case Summary (Updated 02/20/25)

• 12/29/2022 Affidavit

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

Well done!

 

[StarryStarryNight]

So what? BK is not an ordinary man, and he has a diagnosis to confirm that. However, this speaks more in his defense than against him. I find it hard to picture someone with OCD not putting the sheath back on a $300 knife and walking out of the house without a thorough clean-up. In fact, his specific traits make him an unlikely candidate to actually use a knife for murder, even if he wanted to commit one. He is too clumsy for such an exercise. JMO.

I think I am qualified to respond here having an adult son with OCD.
OCD as presented in MSM is very far off the mark. There are varying degrees of how it affects someone’s life, and endless ways it can manifest itself.
It’s not all about cleanliness.
Even forgetting that, in my opinion if BK had OCD so bad that he felt compelled to stay behind and meticulously clean up after massacring four people, he would not be a functioning member of society in any sense. He certainly would not be in any college’s PhD program.
Do we know for sure BK was diagnosed with OCD or is this an assumption made because he appears socially awkward?

 

[gremlin444]

So what? BK is not an ordinary man, and he has a diagnosis to confirm that. However, this speaks more in his defense than against him. I find it hard to picture someone with OCD not putting the sheath back on a $300 knife and walking out of the house without a thorough clean-up. In fact, his specific traits make him an unlikely candidate to actually use a knife for murder, even if he wanted to commit one. He is too clumsy for such an exercise. JMO.

Chiming in with StarryStarryNight....as someone who who grew up with a parent with OCD and who now has raised two kids with OCD...and trust me, I've been to nine billion therapy sessions, parent education classes, read resources, gone to endless meetings, etc.

1) OCD comes in so many varieties and most of them are NOT the stereotypical "obsessed with cleanliness and order" type. I could only wish that was the type my kids had (jokingly)!

There's contamination obsession, religious/moral obsession, sexuality/gender obsession, pure obsession with no compulsion, checking OCD, hoarding OCD, symmetry/ordering OCD, confession obsession, existential OCD...and the list goes on.

And the extra fun thing is--you can have multiple varieties of OCD and the types of OCD you have can change throughout your life. It can be like the most horrible game of Whack-A-Mole ever, trying to get it under control in one form juts to have it pop up in another from.

2) As far as I know, the only mention of OCD that has come up has been from that ex-relative in terms of him not wanting her to use pans used to cook meat to be used for his vegan food. I do not recall him bringing it up in the Tapatalk posts ascribed to him. I wouldn't be surprised if he has some level of OCD, as it is something that is not uncommon to be co-occurring with visual snow syndrome.

3) People who have OCD who are able to function to a level of pursuing a graduate degree do not have a level of OCD that is going to stop them from being able to prioritize their own safety in an emergency situation--i.e. going back to find a knife sheath when you are in danger of being caught by the police arriving at the house. Not to mention the adrenaline rush from a situation can often temporarily overpower a person's usual OCD habits.

4) Not sure what you are referring to when you speak of him being clumsy--the visual snow? Like OCD, visual snow manifests in different ways in different people. A good chunk of people with visual snow actually have better night vision because bright lights cause their visual snow to worsen/have a severe halo effect.

 

[Diddian]

Below is a detailed, speculative reconstruction of what may have happened on the morning of November 13, 2022, when BK is alleged to have killed four (4) University of Idaho students—Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin—at 1122 King Road, Moscow, ID. This is based on information from the probable cause affidavit dated December 29, 2022, publicly available details, and reasonable inferences. Since many specifics remain undisclosed due to a gag order and ongoing legal proceedings, this account includes speculative elements to fill in gaps, while staying grounded in the known facts.

Keep in mind: All times are approximate and based on the affidavit and related reports.

---

The Night Leading Up to the Murders (November 12–13, 2022)

The four victims spent the evening of November 12 enjoying typical college activities. Kaylee Goncalves and Madison Mogen, lifelong best friends, went out to the Corner Club bar in Moscow, later stopping at a food truck around 1:40 a.m. before returning home to 1122 King Road by 1:56 a.m.

Meanwhile, Xana Kernodle and her boyfriend Ethan Chapin attended a party at the Sigma Chi fraternity house. They returned to the King Road residence around 1:45 a.m. The house, a three-story rental near campus, was home to five female students, though only four were present that night, along with Ethan as a guest. Two other roommates, DM and BF, were also home and had returned earlier after their own outings.

By around 2:00 a.m., the house likely settled into a quiet state, with the victims retiring to their rooms. Kaylee and Madison shared a third-floor bedroom, while Xana and Ethan were in Xana’s second-floor room. The surviving roommates were on the first floor, separated from the upper levels.

BK’s Movements (Speculative Build-Up)
BK, a 28-year-old criminology Ph.D. student at WSU in nearby Pullman, WA, lived about 10 miles from Moscow. The affidavit indicates he had been in the vicinity of 1122 King Road at least 12 times prior to November 13, often late at night or early in the morning, suggesting he may have been observing the house or its occupants for weeks or months.

On this night, his phone pinged a cell tower near his Pullman apartment at 2:42 a.m., indicating he was still at home. Five minutes later, at 2:47 a.m., his phone pinged again as it began moving south through Pullman, before going silent until 4:48 a.m. This gap suggests he may have turned off his phone or put it in airplane mode to avoid tracking—a detail the affidavit describes as consistent with concealing his location during the murders.

Speculatively, BK may have left his apartment shortly after 2:47 a.m., driving his white 2015 Hyundai Elantra toward Moscow. Surveillance footage later captured a white Elantra—matching his vehicle’s description—passing near 1122 King Road three times between 3:29 a.m. and 4:04 a.m. He could have been circling the area, possibly assessing the house, ensuring it was quiet, or steeling himself for what was to come. The affidavit doesn’t specify his exact entry point, but the back sliding door on the second floor, accessible from a wooded hillside, is a plausible option given its relative seclusion.


The Attack (Approximately 4:00–4:20 a.m.)

Around 4:00 a.m., BK likely entered the house, possibly wearing dark clothing and a mask, as described by surviving roommate DM. The affidavit suggests he carried a fixed-blade knife, potentially a Ka-Bar (kill-a-bear)-style weapon with a Marine Corps insignia, based on the sheath left behind. His entry may have been silent, taking advantage of the late hour when the occupants were likely asleep.

Second Floor: Xana Kernodle and Ethan Chapin
BK may have first encountered Xana and Ethan in Xana’s second-floor bedroom. Autopsies later revealed all victims were stabbed multiple times, with some showing defensive wounds, indicating a struggle. Speculatively, Ethan, a 20-year-old guest staying over, might have woken to a sound or movement, prompting BK to attack him first. Xana, alerted by the commotion, could have tried to defend herself or Ethan, leading to a brief but violent confrontation. The affidavit notes a knife sheath was found on the third floor, not the second, suggesting BK carried it with him as he moved through the house. The attack here was likely quick, with multiple stab wounds silencing both victims within minutes.

Third Floor: Kaylee Goncalves and Madison Mogen

BK then ascended to the third floor, entering the bedroom shared by Kaylee and Madison. The two 21-year-olds were likely asleep in the same bed, a detail inferred from the sheath’s location next to Madison’s body. The affidavit doesn’t specify the order of attack, but Kaylee’s autopsy showed more extensive injuries, possibly indicating she woke and resisted, while Madison may have been killed more swiftly. The violence here was brutal and efficient, with BK allegedly stabbing both women repeatedly in the chest and upper body. The sheath, bearing his DNA on the button snap, was left behind—perhaps dislodged during the struggle or dropped in haste.

Around this time, surviving roommate DM awoke around 4:00 a.m., initially hearing what she thought was Kaylee playing with her dog upstairs. Moments later, she heard crying from Xana’s room and a male voice saying, “It’s okay, I’m going to help you.” This could have been BK, possibly attempting to quiet Xana before or during the attack, though it’s unclear if DM heard this in real-time or as a delayed perception. The affidavit estimates the murders occurred between 4:00 and 4:25 a.m., aligning with this sequence.


The Aftermath and Escape (Approximately 4:17–4:20 a.m.)

At 4:17 a.m., DM opened her bedroom door after hearing more sounds—possibly whimpers or footsteps—and saw a figure clad in black, wearing a mask, walking toward the back sliding door. She described him as 5’10” or taller, male, athletically built but not muscular, with bushy eyebrows. Frozen in shock, she watched as he passed her and exited. This encounter suggests BK completed the killings and was leaving the scene, unaware or unconcerned that he’d been seen.

Surveillance footage captured the white Elantra making a fourth pass near the house at 4:04 a.m., then speeding away at 4:20 a.m. Speculatively, BK may have exited the house, returned to his car parked nearby—perhaps in a secluded spot off the road—and fled toward Pullman. His phone remained off until 4:48 a.m., when it pinged again south of Moscow, consistent with him driving back to Washington. By 5:30 a.m., campus security footage at WSU showed a similar white sedan returning to Pullman, suggesting he was back at his apartment within an hour of the murders.
Immediate Aftermath (Morning of November 13)

Around 9:00 a.m., BK’s phone pinged near 1122 King Road again, possibly indicating he returned to the area—perhaps to check if the crimes had been discovered or out of curiosity. The bodies remained undiscovered until 11:58 a.m., when one of the surviving roommates, called 911 after finding the scene. Police arrived to find a horrific crime scene: four students dead, blood throughout the upper floors, and a tan leather knife sheath as the key piece of physical evidence.

---

Speculative Context and Motivation

Kohberger’s motives remain unknown, as the affidavit and subsequent reports offer no clear explanation. His background in criminology and prior interest in criminal behavior (evidenced by a Reddit post seeking participants for a crime-related study) suggest he may have been driven by a fascination with violence or a desire to execute a “perfect crime.” The repeated visits to the King Road area imply premeditation, possibly targeting the house or its occupants for reasons yet undisclosed—whether personal, random, or symbolic. The lack of forced entry and the late-night timing suggest he exploited the vulnerability of a sleeping household.

This reconstruction speculates on the sequence and actions based on the affidavit’s timeline, surveillance data, and DM’s account. However, critical details—like the exact order of the killings, BK’s emotional state, or whether he knew the victims—remain unconfirmed. The trial, scheduled for August 11, 2025, may shed further light, but for now, this narrative blends fact with plausible conjecture to depict that tragic morning.


Case Summary (Updated 02/20/25)

• 12/29/2022 Affidavit

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

Great summary with one correction: the two surviving roommates were not both sleeping on the first floor.

The first line on page 4 of the 12/29/2022 affidavit reads: "D.M. stated she originally went to sleep in her bedroom on the southeast side of the second floor; D.M. stated she was awoken at approximately 4:00 am..."

 

[gremlin444]

BBM

That may be true. But it sounds an awful lot like saying it's up to AT to prove BK is innocent. I don't think it's supposed to work that way.
MOO

Finding information like what I mentioned is exactly one of the reasons why defense teams have investigators. And yes, if they can unequivocally present information like in the Lukis Anderson case to the prosecutor's office/police before trial, they can and do get charges dropped against their clients.

And they bring those things up at trial all the time--so, when cross examining the ISP lab manager or someone from Moscow police..."are you aware that person X who was one of the chain of custody people for the sheath, lived 2 doors down from Mr. Kohberger and had to use the same door knob as him to go through their shared hallway? Isn't it true that touch DNA can transfer from a knob to another person, who can then transfer it to an item?"

Do you really think that if AT could get testimony from a military surplus store clerk that BK was at their store one day looking at and testing knife sheaths, didn't buy one, but here's a receipt for some other item they purchased that day, that she wouldn't present it at trial?

This is a defense team that is spending their time challenging huge issues like the death penalty, IGG & privacy, etc....and yet it's not her job to pursue and present information to challenge the defense?

 

[Arkay]

@StarryStarryNight @gremlin444

I so appreciate both of you sharing your own familial experiences with OCD.

Somewhere up above, I posted my impression of why his OCD may not have limited BK in his acts of murder, nor compel him to stay behind, for hours, to clean up this enormous crime scene.

Mine is just speculation though, and I’ve learned more through what you have both shared. It has to be exhausting for you both.

It certainly gives more insight into BK.

IMO