4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #101

[windrower]

IANAL, but if the defense says the DNA was planted, don’t they have to have a person of interest, a name, of who the planter is? Or at least narrow the field of possibles down from every other person on the planet?

Okay, maybe narrow it down to males living in the proximity to Moscow, who drive a white four-door sedan with no front plate, regularly takes drives to Moscow in the wee hours of the morning, with phone turned off, owns a large Ka-Bar knife and sheath, is taller than average (average height of American male is 5’9”), slim and fit, with bushy eyebrows.

Seems there should be something more than just saying SODDI.

 

[MassGuy]

I'm baffled as to how there's so little evidence left behind at the scene by the perpetrator

Assuming BK did do this and that he didn't intend or expect to murder so many people, wouldn't he have broken out in a sweat from the adrenaline and exertion and dripped perspiration? Especially if he was covered in a one piece coverall. It's almost beyond belief he hadn't left some form of body fluid or accidentally cut himself with his own knife. That he didn't lose a hair off his face or head or bushy eyebrows. That he didn't stumble or trip or leave more finger marks and footprints or lose some of his protective clothing. That there was no saliva or that he didn't lose his bladder / bowel with the stress etc.

And why was the dog not examined? Unless the dog was crated / caged? I assume the dog must have been crated as it doesn't make any sense if not. JMO MOO

If he did drip sweat, it's not as if they'd necessarily find that; they wouldn't have gone around swabbing everything.

The fact that he used a combat knife explains him not cutting himself. They are specifically designed for killing, and they have a guard so your hand doesn't slip down the blade (like we've seen in countless cases where the offender uses a standard kitchen knife).

Coveralls, gloves, and maybe booties were all he needed. If he wore a hood, he could have limited the possibility of leaving hair behind.

He studied this sort of thing, and knew exactly what he was doing.

 

[Curiousobserver]

I'm baffled as to how there's so little evidence left behind at the scene by the perpetrator

Assuming BK did do this and that he didn't intend or expect to murder so many people, wouldn't he have broken out in a sweat from the adrenaline and exertion and dripped perspiration? Especially if he was covered in a one piece coverall. It's almost beyond belief he hadn't left some form of body fluid or accidentally cut himself with his own knife. That he didn't lose a hair off his face or head or bushy eyebrows. That he didn't stumble or trip or leave more finger marks and footprints or lose some of his protective clothing. That there was no saliva or that he didn't lose his bladder / bowel with the stress etc.

And why was the dog not examined? Unless the dog was crated / caged? I assume the dog must have been crated as it doesn't make any sense if not. JMO MOO

This is no small task especially when there is that much blood. His hands and sleeves would have been drenched.

I don't think the description of him by the survivor puts him in overalls. I suspect that he pre-positioned a duffle and some clothes near his car. He shed all his clothes into that duffle and then a plastic bag. He changed his clothes and drove away, stopping to dispose of the murder weapon and clothes at some random spot he choose before-hand.

It's going to be an important point in the trial- a forensics professional would have a difficult time escaping that scene without leaving any DNA or taking any with them.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

IANAL, but if the defense says the DNA was planted, don’t they have to have a person of interest, a name, of who the planter is? Or at least narrow the field of possibles down from every other person on the planet?

Okay, maybe narrow it down to males living in the proximity to Moscow, who drive a white four-door sedan with no front plate, regularly takes drives to Moscow in the wee hours of the morning, with phone turned off, owns a large Ka-Bar knife and sheath, is taller than average (average height of American male is 5’9”), slim and fit, with bushy eyebrows.

Seems there should be something more than just saying SODDI.

If BK was framed then he was framed by a genius mastermind criminal who has figured the art of leaving zero evidence. Also planted a tiny bit of BK's DNA whilst ensuring BK was accompanying him in the house and now lies about it, or was at least close by 'star gazing'.

Or, are we supposed to wonder if there's been a large scale and highly organised fitting up of BK by LE and all related agencies? JMO

 

[arielilane]

So.... someone who looks an awful lot like BK got his hands on BK's knife and sheath, abd while BK was driving around in his Elantra, the doppelganger was driving around in a copycat Elantra, and while BK drove around with his phone off, the doppelberger murdered four coeds. And BK was aware of this so he drove by the scene the next morning and obsessed over protecting his DNA with gloves and baggies.

Guess we can look forward to BK taking the stand to tell the jury about how and when his sheath went missing.

I guess this is where you get when you've got nothing else.

JMO

And the doppelgänger also a student at WSU. j/k

 

[minazoe]

these scenarios are beyond what would be considered reasonable doubt. the possible explanations are un-reasonable and far less than likely. there is no leather glove and there is no case for being framed, the extraneous evidence is not even really usable and there isn't a single scenario that can point away from Bryan. His parents will be devastated and Bryan destroyed his family. Hopefully his sister can write a book or something because her young life has been derailed due to her brother's actions. Maybe she can try to help the victims families in some way. It might be healing..I don't know, but this guy became a junky in high school..that is pretty extreme and you have to wonder about why or how this happened...we know he was a bullied fat kid and that later he worked to conquer those demons...but how? and when did his murder spree really start and what other crimes has he committed...I feel like more people will talk about him once he is convicted and perhaps more things will come to light. mOO

 

[Boxer]

This is no small task especially when there is that much blood. His hands and sleeves would have been drenched.

I don't think the description of him by the survivor puts him in overalls. I suspect that he pre-positioned a duffle and some clothes near his car. He shed all his clothes into that duffle and then a plastic bag. He changed his clothes and drove away, stopping to dispose of the murder weapon and clothes at some random spot he choose before-hand.

It's going to be an important point in the trial- a forensics professional would have a difficult time escaping that scene without leaving any DNA or taking any with them.

Yes. Even garden variety bank robbers now watch their DNA.

Sealing up to rob and stripping while standing on a trash bag before getting in their vehicle.

 

[arielilane]

Without a clear motive – which may never be learned – the prosecution can introduce Kohberger’s previous Reddit postings, in which he attempted to query criminals on what it felt like to commit crimes, what steps they took to avoid capture, how they prepared, and so on – including the questions, "Why did you choose that victim or target over others?" and "How did you approach your victim or target?"

For their ending summation to a jury, prosecutors labor to construct a compelling narrative – a story that explains what the accused did and why he did it. Adding Kohberger’s intense interest in criminality – and the creepy questions he had previously asked in his Reddit survey – suggests a possible motive in the possible absence of one come trial time.

As noted, there is much more investigation, and likely more evidence, to come (for instance, the steps Kohberger took post-murder, like wearing surgical gloves and hiding his garbage). There will also be a great deal of criminal procedure. And there is also the defense’s case, glimpses of which may be gained during the discovery process (more on all that in a future article).

Idaho murders: 5 key pieces of evidence against Bryan Kohberger

He is still only the accused – and must be considered innocent until proven guilty. But the case against Bryan Kohberger for the Idaho quadruple homicide appears strong.

www.fox13seattle.com

1/12/2023

 

[Warwick7]

I'm baffled as to how there's so little evidence left behind at the scene by the perpetrator

Assuming BK did do this and that he didn't intend or expect to murder so many people, wouldn't he have broken out in a sweat from the adrenaline and exertion and dripped perspiration? Especially if he was covered in a one piece coverall. It's almost beyond belief he hadn't left some form of body fluid or accidentally cut himself with his own knife. That he didn't lose a hair off his face or head or bushy eyebrows. That he didn't stumble or trip or leave more finger marks and footprints or lose some of his protective clothing. That there was no saliva or that he didn't lose his bladder / bowel with the stress etc.

And why was the dog not examined? Unless the dog was crated / caged? I assume the dog must have been crated as it doesn't make any sense if not. JMO MOO

BBM
There is going to be a lot more evidence revealed at trial. What has been released in M00 is small by any means.

He got blood on him without a doubt... We know he had blood on his shoes because he left it right in front of DM's door. What else was left behind we aren't privy to yet?

Actually he made every mistake you could make. He was connected to the vehicle. He left his dna. He left his murder weapon sheath. A witness saw him. He didn't eliminate the witness. He got in over his head. He killed more victims than he intended. And he stalked them, and it was printed all over his cell phone.
M00

And that's just what we know...

 

[browneyes]

Without a clear motive – which may never be learned – the prosecution can introduce Kohberger’s previous Reddit postings, in which he attempted to query criminals on what it felt like to commit crimes, what steps they took to avoid capture, how they prepared, and so on – including the questions, "Why did you choose that victim or target over others?" and "How did you approach your victim or target?"

For their ending summation to a jury, prosecutors labor to construct a compelling narrative – a story that explains what the accused did and why he did it. Adding Kohberger’s intense interest in criminality – and the creepy questions he had previously asked in his Reddit survey – suggests a possible motive in the possible absence of one come trial time.

As noted, there is much more investigation, and likely more evidence, to come (for instance, the steps Kohberger took post-murder, like wearing surgical gloves and hiding his garbage). There will also be a great deal of criminal procedure. And there is also the defense’s case, glimpses of which may be gained during the discovery process (more on all that in a future article).

Idaho murders: 5 key pieces of evidence against Bryan Kohberger

He is still only the accused – and must be considered innocent until proven guilty. But the case against Bryan Kohberger for the Idaho quadruple homicide appears strong.

www.fox13seattle.com

1/12/2023

I know BK fancies himself a genius, but do convicted murderers have access to Reddit or does he think some cold case murderer is going to out themselves?

 

[Warwick7]

A good refresher of BK from early 2024:

Where Is Bryan Kohberger Now? What to Know About the Idaho Murders Suspect as He Awaits Trial

Bryan Kohberger — who is the subject of a May 2025 episode of 'Dateline' — will stand trial after being charged with the murder of four Idaho University students. Here is what we know so far about the Idaho murder suspect.

people.com

 

[mrjitty]

these scenarios are beyond what would be considered reasonable doubt. the possible explanations are un-reasonable and far less than likely. there is no leather glove and there is no case for being framed, the extraneous evidence is not even really usable and there isn't a single scenario that can point away from Bryan. His parents will be devastated and Bryan destroyed his family. Hopefully his sister can write a book or something because her young life has been derailed due to her brother's actions. Maybe she can try to help the victims families in some way. It might be healing..I don't know, but this guy became a junky in high school..that is pretty extreme and you have to wonder about why or how this happened...we know he was a bullied fat kid and that later he worked to conquer those demons...but how? and when did his murder spree really start and what other crimes has he committed...I feel like more people will talk about him once he is convicted and perhaps more things will come to light. mOO

Exactly - it all heads straight out in to the sea of wild speculation beyond the plains of conjecture. Framing etc just is not a reasonable possibility unless you have some solid evidential basis for it.

MOO

 

[SteveP]

If BK's attorney is planning to stick with the claim that he was out driving around, stargazing during the time frame of the murders, perhaps she should take a look at the weather conditions in Moscow, Idaho, on that Sunday morning, Nov 13, 2022. Seems to have been a less than ideal night for stargazing. JMO

Weather in November 2022 in Moscow, Idaho, USA

Weather reports from November 2022 in Moscow, Idaho, USA with highs and lows

www.timeanddate.com

 

[Barry]

BK's attorney will need to spin some serious fiction to sway a jury. I'm not having a stroke, but I am definitely smelling burning toast. MOO.

 

[Nila Aella]

That's simply not true. The DNA is on a snap to the sheath, as opposed to merely the sheath itself (that would be hard enough to explain away).

It is a sample from the strap (upper and lower) and underside of the button.

RN after reading the report during testimony
A. The entire leather portion of the strap, both top and bottom, and then the underside of the button.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/022125-Transcript-Redacted-hearing-held-Jan23-2025.pdf

Item Q1.1, the sheath strap and inner snap

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/022425-Motion-inLimine-14-RE-Statistical-Anaylsis.pdf

That DNA is in such a quantity that it is more likely the result of direct transfer (my research), which the crime lab analyst plans to testify to.
So you've got DNA in a location the killer had to touch. This DNA is in a quantity that lends itself to direct transfer.
When you couple that with the fact that this was a single source profile, and it makes the odds of it being a result of secondary transfer very unlikely.

Beyond the expertise of a crime analyst.

2019 van Oorschot et al
The article is an illustration of how extremely complex the question of how and when is given the identification of a sample that has no biological source such as blood.7

Despite this wealth of information and scientific study, the authors conclude that more work is necessary and that the expertise to offer activity level opinions, the how and when, is beyond the expertise of crime lab analysts.

2024, NIST
the EWG

But a further important question is what activities led to the presence of that DNA. With the increased sensitivity of DNA techniques and sophisticated software, a DNA profile may be developed even when the contributor of that DNA never touched the item or area that was swabbed. Alternatively, a person’s DNA may be present when they were not involved in the crime.

“Except in ground-truth-known experiments, where an individual is observed to have been in contact with a surface/location, it is not possible to know whether the transfer was direct or indirect.” (Id. at §7.2).

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/022425-Defense-Motion-inLimine-6-RE-Rylene-Nowlin-Reference-Touch-Contact-DNA.pdf

JMO

 

[Balthazar]

S&BBM

You said, "At best, it leads to a family group."

And this is just not correct. At best infers that there is a large pool of candidates and a certain unreliability. Sometimes it leads to only one possible person. From your own link:

We got lucky on Hawkins: A direct family member had uploaded a genetic DNA profile to a public open-source database.

Investigative Genetic Genealogy (IGG): a guide for prosecutors | Texas District & County Attorneys Association

By Leighton D’Antoni Assistant Criminal District Attorney in Dallas County Forensic investigative genetic genealogy (abbreviated FIGG, IGG, or FGG) is a groundbreaking tool in the field of criminal…

www.tdcaa.com

This is exactly as I said--it depends on the matches and how much DNA they share with the unknown profile. The closer the matches, the fewer family members that will fit correctly in the puzzle sharing the correct amount of DNA with all the matches.

From your own link:

This list of genetic relatives, more commonly known as DNA matches, can range from close (e.g., sibling, parent–child) to distant (first cousins and beyond) relatives. The amount of DNA shared can then be used to compute probabilities for possible relationships to place DNA matches into predicted positions in the unknown individual’s family tree. Following this, documentary evidence, e.g., civil registration records (birth, marriage, death, etc.), plus other investigative evidence, can be used to build out the family trees of identified/verified DNA matches, typically beginning with identifying who the DNA match’s parents, grandparents, etc. are. As a family tree is built back through generations, a most recent common ancestor (MRCA) is searched for. This is an ancestor that both the unknown and the DNA match share and have both descended from. Building the family tree forwards in time from the MRCA(s) and filling in multiple branches of the tree to generate family networks, could lead to a potential identity of the unknown, or narrow it down to a group of brothers or sisters within a family.

Bridging Disciplines to Form a New One: The Emergence of Forensic Genetic Genealogy - PMC

Forensic Genetic Genealogy (FGG) has fast become a popular tool in criminal investigations since it first emerged in 2018. FGG is a novel investigatory tool that has been applied to hundreds of unresolved cold cases in the United States to generate ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This is the most common result--a group of siblings in one family. BK is the only known male sibling and lived by the crime scene--surely the focus would be on him, not a wider family group.

From your own link:

The genealogical research may lead to a possible candidate or candidates for the identity of the unknown. Multiple candidates may be suggested in cases where the genealogical research leads to a family of multiple brothers or multiple sisters. The genealogical research cannot determine which one of the brothers/sisters the unknown is suggested to be, however biographic information such as age, known addresses at the time of the crime, etc. may assist in narrowing it down to one brother/sister.

Candidate or candidates, one brother/one sister. It depends on the matches and sibling group.

Bridging Disciplines to Form a New One: The Emergence of Forensic Genetic Genealogy - PMC

Forensic Genetic Genealogy (FGG) has fast become a popular tool in criminal investigations since it first emerged in 2018. FGG is a novel investigatory tool that has been applied to hundreds of unresolved cold cases in the United States to generate ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Depending on the matches, IGG can be inherently self-checking. If you pinpoint an individual or sibling group, the DNA of the unknown must be consistently correct in that spot with all the matches and the amount of shared DNA.
JMO

Yes. All my links say IGG leads to a family group, not a specific individual. Then the Genealogist uses their discernment to try to figure out who the suspect is within that family group. Unfortunately, there are times when the genealogist is wrong. It happens...and I have personally seen it happen.

I guess IGG could lead to one specific person in a really, really small family where there are no other possibilities, but that is really not the norm.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I know BK fancies himself a genius, but do convicted murderers have access to Reddit or does he think some cold case murderer is going to out themselves?

I imagine the only people who would respond are fantasists and total psychopaths who have little or no contact with reality - would they even be bothered with reddit questionnaires?

I wonder if something that spurred BK was finding out from perpetrators that their victims were so 'easy' to subdue and overcome, for example it's a fact that most women don't scream or fight when attacked. Many victims of sexual violence freeze and many feel it's safer to stay silent or they risk being killed. Also many simply lose agency due to terror and do what they're instructed. Knowing things like that could encourage a violent personality to act out in reality maybe?

JMO MOO

 

[Megnut]

I'm baffled as to how there's so little evidence left behind at the scene by the perpetrator

Assuming BK did do this and that he didn't intend or expect to murder so many people, wouldn't he have broken out in a sweat from the adrenaline and exertion and dripped perspiration? Especially if he was covered in a one piece coverall. It's almost beyond belief he hadn't left some form of body fluid or accidentally cut himself with his own knife. That he didn't lose a hair off his face or head or bushy eyebrows. That he didn't stumble or trip or leave more finger marks and footprints or lose some of his protective clothing. That there was no saliva or that he didn't lose his bladder / bowel with the stress etc.

And why was the dog not examined? Unless the dog was crated / caged? I assume the dog must have been crated as it doesn't make any sense if not. JMO MOO

Speaking just to Murphy --

A doodle, non shedding.

LE reported finding him in KG's room (on the bed iirc). This was after 1 intruder, 4 murders, HJ, and any number of 1st responders.

I have a 10#poodle, who stays on my bed when I get home, until I call her to me. Murphy may have been a very compliant dog in the same way. If KG told him to stay, maybe he stayed.

It's worth noting that Murphy didn't run out for HJ who probably wasn't even a stranger, in the hopes of getting to go outside for a much needed potty break. I think Murphy was docile, KG was his person and he was waiting patiently for her.

JMO

 

[Sundog]

Without a clear motive – which may never be learned – the prosecution can introduce Kohberger’s previous Reddit postings, in which he attempted to query criminals on what it felt like to commit crimes, what steps they took to avoid capture, how they prepared, and so on – including the questions, "Why did you choose that victim or target over others?" and "How did you approach your victim or target?"

For their ending summation to a jury, prosecutors labor to construct a compelling narrative – a story that explains what the accused did and why he did it. Adding Kohberger’s intense interest in criminality – and the creepy questions he had previously asked in his Reddit survey – suggests a possible motive in the possible absence of one come trial time.

As noted, there is much more investigation, and likely more evidence, to come (for instance, the steps Kohberger took post-murder, like wearing surgical gloves and hiding his garbage). There will also be a great deal of criminal procedure. And there is also the defense’s case, glimpses of which may be gained during the discovery process (more on all that in a future article).

Idaho murders: 5 key pieces of evidence against Bryan Kohberger

He is still only the accused – and must be considered innocent until proven guilty. But the case against Bryan Kohberger for the Idaho quadruple homicide appears strong.

www.fox13seattle.com

1/12/2023

Do you think that the prosecution will introduce BK's Reddit survey and that the judge will allow it into evidence? The reason I ask is that if the prosecution introduces this into evidence with the judge's approval, then this opens up an avenue for the defense to argue that a criminal who read and/or replied to BK's survey could have taken an interest in BK and been involved in the murders. I don't think that happened, but if the prosecution presents the survey in court, then this opens up this possibility being presented by the defense. But I don't think the judge would allow the Reddit posts and survey into evidence. There is also the possibility that BK's advisor at DeSales would be subpoeaned to explain why she wasn't surprised at the questionnaire in terms of the criminology program's course of study and approved the survey.

 

[Megnut]

If BK's mask covered his forehead, any sweat would be caught by the mask. Gloves, new clothing straight out of the package, the only zone for shedding cells or fluids would be his eye band. Safe to say he wasn't probably crying.

But let's say he did drop some skin cells and a bushy eyelash, easily it would be lost in the bloodbath he left behind.

As to how much blood he got on himself? Some on his shoe at least. The hilt would protect him from slippage and reduce any chance of self-injury. The hilt would also prevent the knife necessarily going deeper, limiting his contact with cavity blood. We don't know if there was arterial spray or aspirational spray which could be anywhere from a gusher to a fine mist. Long-legged, long-armed, he could side step a lot of blood and reach across a long way.

It would appear that he didn't transfer a ton of blood on his way out so I don't think he was covered in blood, a drippy mess.

I do think he came prepared.

Thud at 4:17, speeding away at 4:20, gives him more than 120 seconds to strip off his killsuit or cover it up.

He came prepared to kill, without leaving a trace.

He didn't prepare for victims who weren't asleep. And IMO it cost him his sheath.

JMO