4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #89

[NancyDrewISOclues]

Does anyone know if detectives puled the Black Box from under Kohbergers car to see his whereabouts that night? This tactic helped solved a murder case here in Tacoma WA.

 

[Helechawagirl]

I think this is the answer: the defendant can't just waive his right to a speedy trial. He has to bring a motion for delay to the Court (which constitutes a one time waiver - he was given 37 days). If it were the case that every defendant could just keep delaying trials, not sure the system would work. IOW, it was never entirely up to the defendant (not much is entirely up to just one side in a legal battle).

At any rate, the defense had to give a reason for the delay and they said, "We need to study this Grand Jury matter." That was granted, the discovery was turned over, the judge decided how long that should take. Then, the defense filed its motion to dismiss based on the GJ study.

Judge then denied that motion and reversed his decision on the extension of time (even though it was granted, he now finds no reason to have granted it). IOW, the defense found *nothing* so their reasoning for a delay and dismissal is now abandoned.

The motion to delay is vacated and the defense will have to find another way to delay. The judge is signaling that he will follow the letter of the law on these delays and that this first delay was basically unwarranted. That is now documented and the judge will proceed accordingly.

I do expect the defense to try this again (motion for extended time). But each time, this case will inch closer to trial. The judge may expect a better argument in the next motion.

IMO. We could certainly use input from a lawyer, particularly an Idaho lawyer. Or perhaps a view from a local.

IANAL but I believe there’s another hearing in Oct.

 

[Helechawagirl]

That's what I recall too (Mabutt said it wo naming names, SG later named Kaylee). The DNA on the sheath we knew. If he was injured though there should be other DNA of his at the scene too. We hadn't heard this which is why I was wondering if he maybe wore fish (cut-resistant) gloves. So, this Newsweek article was confusing because it's dated today - almost a year later, making reference to him possibly injuring himself. The more I think about it the more I think they probably recycled old notes when writing this up.

jmo

JMO but they seem to be pulling it out of their a—.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

The car information makes sense to me as well. BK is going down: DNA huge, Phone data, Surveillance Video and who knows what else the State has uncovered since the arrest. The only thing the AT can do at this point is push paper.

<snipped & BBM>

The police took the video footage to an FBI officer who specializes in identifying vehicles. Not only was the officer an expert on types and makes of vehicles, but he also knew that there were regional differences in the same make of car—sometimes a certain part may be used for cars sold in one part of America but not in another.

The FBI agent initially identified the car as a Hyundai Elantra made between 2011 and 2014, but, after reviewing the footage over and over looking for small clues, he expanded his range from 2011 to 2016.

MOO

I think the sticky point is when that revision was made?

As always, MOO.

 

[schooling]

Does anyone know if detectives puled the Black Box from under Kohbergers car to see his whereabouts that night? This tactic helped solved a murder case here in Tacoma WA.

His model car was not equipped with any kind of GPS utilizing capabilities (i.e. navigation, roadside assistance, theft location) therefore there's no GPS antenna. You can tell by looking at any of the 3 videos of the inside of his car, as captured by police. He has the basic infotainment system.

So even if Hyundai captured and stored this type information for logging purposes this would be impossible...at least from his car.

Also, there is no blackbox standard for cars. The NHTSA has made a bunch of proposals and they've gone nowhere. Hyundai doesn't want to put GPS antennas/radios in a base price Elantra if buyers aren't willing to pay for it. The NHTSA knows this and in all of those proposals, GPS has never been mentioned, it's not important to them. So this capability may or may not exist even in GPS equipped vehicles. So sounds like htey lucked out in Tacoma.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think the sticky point is when that revision was made?

As always, MOO.

You're right, the Defense is trying to make a big deal conspiracy over that. But if you think about it, they got grainy footage on a very foggy night in the beginning, and as they received other surveillance video they were able to analyze it more carefully. A White Elantra 2011-2014 was almost spot to begin with.

It isn't unusual IMO for LE to update the vehicle they're looking for as the case progresses, it's not like they said it was yellow school bus at first. Of course AT & Company have to latch on to the theory that LE made the car fit BK.

MOO

 

[maskedwoman]

BK

MOO sheriff's rarely if ever make traffic stops on highways or interstates, it's not their jurisdiction it is the state police or state patrols territory.

A small town police department north of Nashville TN has been notorious most of my life for running speed traps on the interstate. They are notorious. Ahem, even my husband doesn't speed through there. LOL But the whole point of that situation is the ticket revenue - not "you were following too close sir".

The fact that he got pulled over twice and got no ticket seemed extremely contrived to me and still does. The FBI said they didn't arrange the pull overs. Ok, fine. But I could see an Indiana police department doing a favor for an Idaho police department. Especially on such a large case. MOOooo

 

[Megnut]

We've been asking how he could be so stupid, driving right up to the door.

The answer IMO is that he took counter-measures. His odd maneuvers coming and going may have included "borrowing" a license plate.

He was emboldened.

Dumb move.

For one, it was all for naught as no reader picked it up.

But if it had been read, it would've been an easy VIN comparison to recognize it as a stolen plate.

JMO

 

[al66pine]

Regional Differences in same make of car??? @Monticore Or Others?

....
The police took the video footage to an FBI officer who specializes in identifying vehicles. Not only was the officer an expert on types and makes of vehicles, but he also knew that there were regional differences in the same make of car—sometimes a certain part may be used for cars sold in one part of America but not in another....

@girlhasnoname snipped for focus. Not meaning to doubt you or FBI on this Regional Differences point, but just curious about something new to me.

@Monticore Your posts offered critical insight in earlier threads about the Elantra identification.

Are those RDs detectable based on photos of vehicle's exterior?
Or are those RDs tucked away under the hood so to speak and not visible from ext. pix, even to eyes of professionals?
TiA.

______________________________
As an example, I'm assuming that exteriors of vehicles meeting certain California's emission standards (also adopted by other states, including Pennsylvania) would not look different from vehicles not meeting those standards. Doesn't seem that would be visible, but we know about ppl making ASSumptions.

United States vehicle emission standards - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

@maskedmwoman - your post mentioned exhaust, prompting me to go down a rabbit hole.

 

[Chloegirl]

I have always believed that they put the information out (on 12/06) about the car with the narrow dates that did not include 2015 to get folks from town looking at White Hyundai Elantras. It could be a tactic, if everyone is scrutinizing white elantras (or similar white cars for that matter). Maybe you're a little bit more careful but you haven't completely spooked the perpetrator causing him to alter his plans. Once he left the area on 12/12, I recall they updated this information a few days later like the 19th. By that time, they were already surveilling him in Pennsylvania. JMOO

 

[Jurisprudence]

I noticed this edit at the end of the Newsweek article:

Update 10/7/23, 3:35 p.m. ET: This article was updated to reflect that the DNA sample found in the murder house was touch DNA.

The missing Bryan Kohberger evidence that could make or break the trial

The murder weapon has never been found but police are relying on other evidence

www.newsweek.com

Which further supports sloppy work. If this was a recycled article updated to reflect touch DNA but not updated to DELETE the LE statement (that they expected he cut himself) that was made immediately after the events, prior to the investigation even starting (or being in its infancy), that's sloppy work. To print that almost a year later when the public is under the impression from filings that BK did not appear to cut himself is irresponsible and lazy.

jmo

 

[Jurisprudence]

I have always believed that they put the information out (on 12/06) about the car with the narrow dates that did not include 2015 to get folks from town looking at White Hyundai Elantras. It could be a tactic, if everyone is scrutinizing white elantras (or similar white cars for that matter). Maybe you're a little bit more careful but you haven't completely spooked the perpetrator causing him to alter his plans. Once he left the area on 12/12, I recall they updated this information a few days later like the 19th. By that time, they were already surveilling him in Pennsylvania. JMOO

This crossed my mind as well. Once they had the model year and linked it to BK they intentionally held back the correction.

jmo

 

[Jurisprudence]

Does anyone know if detectives puled the Black Box from under Kohbergers car to see his whereabouts that night? This tactic helped solved a murder case here in Tacoma WA.

The car may not have had one. It's not easy to get a concrete answer on makes and models that have them except to state that the article below indicates that the law requires disclosure through the owner's manual for all vehicles manufactured from September 1, 2012 forward *if* the vehicle is equipped with an event data recorder. Maybe a search of the manual would include this but the model type of Elantra would need to be known.

jmo

Event Data Recorder – AAA Exchange

exchange.aaa.com

 

[Jurisprudence]

JMO but they seem to be pulling it out of their a—.

I think they recycled an article from November 2022 and didn't even bother to read it before republishing.

jmo

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

You're right, the Defense is trying to make a big deal conspiracy over that. But if you think about it, they got grainy footage on a very foggy night in the beginning, and as they received other surveillance video they were able to analyze it more carefully. A White Elantra 2011-2014 was almost spot to begin with.

It isn't unusual IMO for LE to update the vehicle they're looking for as the case progresses, it's not like they said it was yellow school bus at first. Of course AT & Company have to latch on to the theory that LE made the car fit BK.

MOO

Exactly! I’m solidly in the camp who thinks it’s just a silly defense tactic because that’s all they have, & that good investigations advance knowledge as more is learned.

A question I have pertains to claim repeated in the Newsweek article that the knife has never been found:
“Police are still stuck on a major question—where is the murder knife? Nobody knows.”

AFAIK, we don’t know if that’s accurate, do we? The gag order would prevent disclosure, it seems to me, if the knife was found after the gag order, MOO.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

A small town police department north of Nashville TN has been notorious most of my life for running speed traps on the interstate. They are notorious. Ahem, even my husband doesn't speed through there. LOL But the whole point of that situation is the ticket revenue - not "you were following too close sir".

The fact that he got pulled over twice and got no ticket seemed extremely contrived to me and still does. The FBI said they didn't arrange the pull overs. Ok, fine. But I could see an Indiana police department doing a favor for an Idaho police department. Especially on such a large case. MOOooo

I get it because I still struggle with the coincidence.

However, I truly cannot fathom LE letting him take off cross-country, under surveillance or not, given the horrific nature of the crime. Just no flippin’ way, MOO.

Also, I’m relatively comfortable relying official denials from solid reporting with named LE spokespeople like that done by the Idaho Statesman:
Was FBI tailing Bryan Kohberger cross-country? Why Indiana police stopped him twice

“At the time of this stop, there was no information available on a suspect for the crime in Idaho, to include identifying information or any specific information related to the license plate state or number of the white Hyundai Elantra which was being reported in the media to have been seen in or around where the crime occurred,” the Indiana State Police said in a Jan. 3 press release.”
(BBM)

Also from the same article:
“On the day of the traffic stop, Sgt. Ernstes did not know about any Be-On-the-Lookouts from the Moscow Police Department,” said Harris, the Hancock County Sheriff’s Office spokesperson. “He was not directed to stop the vehicle by anyone, and to our knowledge the car was not under any surveillance.”
(BBM)

As always, MOO, and me being relatively comfortable is not the same as certainty!

 

[Megnut]

IF he "borrowed" a license plate and IF there are like a gazillion white Elantras, perhaps he didn't have to look too far to find another white Elantra (so any license plate reader would link back to an actual white Elantra, just not his) and LE did get a license plate from a reader, linked to an Elantra of the other range of years.

We know he took counter measures. We just don't know how many layers deep they might run. Possibilities such as: changing his license plate, swapping the plate with one from a similar vehicle, purchasing his kill kits months prior, creating dummy accounts from which to purchase more anonymously, etc, etc.

I think he thought he was bulletproof.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

I get it because I still struggle with the coincidence.

However, I truly cannot fathom LE letting him take off cross-country, under surveillance or not, given the horrific nature of the crime. Just no flippin’ way, MOO.

Also, I’m relatively comfortable relying official denials from solid reporting with named LE spokespeople like that done by the Idaho Statesman:
Was FBI tailing Bryan Kohberger cross-country? Why Indiana police stopped him twice

“At the time of this stop, there was no information available on a suspect for the crime in Idaho, to include identifying information or any specific information related to the license plate state or number of the white Hyundai Elantra which was being reported in the media to have been seen in or around where the crime occurred,” the Indiana State Police said in a Jan. 3 press release.”
(BBM)

Also from the same article:
“On the day of the traffic stop, Sgt. Ernstes did not know about any Be-On-the-Lookouts from the Moscow Police Department,” said Harris, the Hancock County Sheriff’s Office spokesperson. “He was not directed to stop the vehicle by anyone, and to our knowledge the car was not under any surveillance.”
(BBM)

As always, MOO, and me being relatively comfortable is not the same as certainty!

Exercise in semantics perchance?

Perhaps there was a very active BOLO -- maybe LE wanted eyes on the Elantra/BK, just didn't ask for or authorizd any traffic stops. But very much wanted to know where BK was, and the saturation of traffic police throughout the nation made it possible.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

FWIW I have never been pulled over where LE didn't take my license and registration from me back to their patrol car, for a painfully long time, leaving me to think about what I'd done. Even when I've slinked away with the coveted warning, they still ran my license.

LE didn't do that for BK. Twice. IMO they were stopping Elantras, of their own volition, to slow BK's forward progress (if LE was synchronizing future surveillence) or they were taking census of Elantras, in search of BK. Like a LE checkpoint, just for any and all Elantras.

JMO

 

[maskedwoman]

FWIW I have never been pulled over where LE didn't take my license and registration from me back to their patrol car, for a painfully long time, leaving me to think about what I'd done. Even when I've slinked away with the coveted warning, they still ran my license.

LE didn't do that for BK. Twice. IMO they were stopping Elsntras, of their own volition, to slow BK's forward progress (if LE was synchronizing future surveillence) or they were taking census of Elantras, in search of BK. Like a LE checkpoint, just for any and all Elantras.

JMO

This is an EXCELLENT point. I've gotten a few warnings over the years and LE always ran my license first. And told me what the fine would be for that ticket. And they don't typically give warnings unless your driving record is clear, which they can't know without running the license. Plus, they want to make sure anyone they pull over doesn't have a warrant before they let them go and that you are not driving someone else's car. They can't make informed decisions on any of that if they don't run your license.