4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #99

[MassGuy]

The conversation between BK and the neighbor was about ancestry, not a medical problem, paternity, immigration or any of the other reasons BK might have taken a DNA test. If BK did a DNA test and discussed it during a conversation on ancestry in which he told the neighbor he is of German ancestry, the DNA test must have been about ancestry. If it had been a medical DNA test, then the conversation would have been about whatever disease or medical family history he was being tested for.

AT evaded answering whether or not BK had submitted a profile when Judge Hippler asked her if she was saying that the FBI got into BK's DNA profile on the non-LE side of a DNA database at the last hearing. I think she is saving that information for the Franks hearing.

"Kohberger, who was a student in the university’s criminology department, asked whether the neighbor could identify his ancestral background, which the man guessed was Italy, the student told the paper.

But Kohberger responded that he was actually of German descent.

“He talked about his ancestors. He had some sort of DNA test. I don’t know how he got to that point. … It was just interesting to him,” the neighbor told the Statesman."
...
"Meanwhile, the neighbor also revealed that Moscow detectives contacted him after they found his cellphone number in Kohberger’s phone. "

Idaho suspect Bryan Kohberger sent DNA for genetic testing to explore ancestry: neighbor

Bryan Kohberger told a fellow grad student that he explored his ancestry by submitting DNA for genetic testing – which could shed light on how investigators used forensic genealogy to zero in on th…

nypost.com

The whole purpose of this was providing evidence to support a Frank's hearing. One does not hold back information that could get such a hearing, in the hopes that they get to present it at that hearing.

She was asked a direct question, and she punted on providing the information that would have best supported her argument, instead going with the weaker argument. The reason for this: There is absolutely no evidence to support the FBI accessing his DNA upload.

If there is a Frank's hearing here, I will eat my hat.

 

[Megnut]

In the hearing for a hearing, AT accused LE of including immaterial and excluding material facts in order to distract the magistrate from ... she doesn't really say but the implication is that it's more than improper.

And yet it's exactly what she's doing at this hearingette. She throws a bunch of irrelevant data in an attempt to move the needle on probable cause. But this judge is sharp. There's just no argument that works here. Because the threshold for PC is met by the DNA

The judge wasn't moved by her dramatic review of the Elantra either, searched three times, taken apart, but no ... she stumbled over her words here which made me wonder if something was found just not all the things. Regardless, the judge had no trouble imagining why that might be -- clothes bagged up. It's not enough to say a magistrate might have decided differently if more or less information was provided. The standard is whether LE/the State was willfully attempting to deceive the magistrate. Omissions, mistakes, facts as they were known at the time -- don't reach the bar.

BUT NONE OF IT wipes the DNA off the sheath.

AT even went so fast as to claim that the LIE told in the PCA is DM's statements which AT says can't be true therefore nothing she says can be trusted, and by not including more of her interview, LE misled the magistrate. But that is fallacious! That's it's either or. It can absolutely be true that DM is trustworthy, LE is straightforward and, without additional knowledge, DM did believe a certain roommate (victim) went up and down the stairs (despite the State's theory that said roommate was killed in bed). She might be right and their theory is slightly off and/or has since been corrected, it's not impossible that a victim did go up and down the stairs before returning to her bed where she was murdered. But it's also possible she was wrong about which roommate was on the stairs and it's possible it was the murderer she heard, long before she was aware they're was one there. So none of that is a LIE. It's an interpretation of events based on the information she had at that time. Why would LE have included statements in a PCA if subsequent conversations filled in more facts?

But again none of it changes the probable cause the DNA creates.

And ultimately it'll sit firm, BARD.

JMO

 

[MeadowMuffin]

Yes @LinasK …. and in this case, it seems that BK may have had additional incentive to leave the area and with and in that white Hyundai Elantra vehicle. And I can’t recall exact timing, but there was also the matter of information relating to a biological profile having been found on the knife sheath’s snap. Wonder what he and his father talked about during the drive……. and in between the stops by police. MOO

I don't know if Howard Blum's book is an approved source, so if not mods please delete. But first BK and MK argued about the route home, BK's choice to go many miles out of the way south, winning.
Then before the traffic stop BK discussed his problem with the school, basically blaming the students and their laziness for his problems. BK never thought he'd be let go, telling MK that he has a right to defend himself. Probably thinking back to his debate days.
PS I didn't spend money on this tale, which has it's share of inaccuracies. There was a free PDF link on Reddit a few months ago.

 

[Gigiky]

The whole purpose of this was providing evidence to support a Frank's hearing. One does not hold back information that could get such a hearing, in the hopes that they get to present it at that hearing.

She was asked a direct question, and she punted on providing the information that would have best supported her argument, instead going with the weaker argument. The reason for this: There is absolutely no evidence to support the FBI accessing his DNA upload.

If there is a Frank's hearing here, I will eat my hat.

You and me both!

 

[MassGuy]

You and me both!

The judge was skeptical of every argument the defense made, which was no surprise. The thing that did surprise me was just how weak those arguments were. I figured they’d at least have something that would give the judge pause, but there’s nothing there.

Hopefully we get a ruling this week, and this conversation becomes moot.

 

[Megnut]

As soon as AT admits BK never voluntarily submitted DNA to a commercial genetic genealogy enterprise, her impassioned arguments about privacy are DOA. Dead on arrival.

IMO that's why she doesn't want to say it. She's arguing it on a theoretical stage where it is also lacking but it comes with greater flair.

A criminal who leaves DNA at a crime scene has no expectation of privacy ever. Curtain is coming down hard on that play.

JMO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

What was normal for you in grad school doesn't necessarily make it normal for all grad students all over America. Jmo

SBMFF.

It also doesn't necessarily make it abnormal or a sign of a killer. That's the problem with this case for me. Because of the publicity, it feels as if people have taken every single thing and assigned it nefarious motive, even things that for many of us, is normal and in line with our own experience. I think that's why there are many (like myself) who think that BK is likely guilty, but argue against the instant online conviction using things that are everyday normal things that people his age do and/or things that people with his pathology (like OCD) do frequently.

BK might be guilty. And at the same time, taking his car home may be totally normal. Both things can be (and likely are) true at the same time.

MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

IMO it would be beastly of BK, if he wanted a “companion” for the very long drive, to have his old father have to drive cross-country ALONE to go get him. No companion for dad all the way there.

Was it said somewhere that his dad drove cross-country alone to get him? I'm pretty sure dad flew.

MOO

 

[Rolypolyoly]

The conversation between BK and the neighbor was about ancestry, not a medical problem, paternity, immigration or any of the other reasons BK might have taken a DNA test. If BK did a DNA test and discussed it during a conversation on ancestry in which he told the neighbor he is of German ancestry, the DNA test must have been about ancestry. If it had been a medical DNA test, then the conversation would have been about whatever disease or medical family history he was being tested for.

AT evaded answering whether or not BK had submitted a profile when Judge Hippler asked her if she was saying that the FBI got into BK's DNA profile on the non-LE side of a DNA database at the last hearing. I think she is saving that information for the Franks hearing.

"Kohberger, who was a student in the university’s criminology department, asked whether the neighbor could identify his ancestral background, which the man guessed was Italy, the student told the paper.

But Kohberger responded that he was actually of German descent.

“He talked about his ancestors. He had some sort of DNA test. I don’t know how he got to that point. … It was just interesting to him,” the neighbor told the Statesman."
...
"Meanwhile, the neighbor also revealed that Moscow detectives contacted him after they found his cellphone number in Kohberger’s phone. "

Idaho suspect Bryan Kohberger sent DNA for genetic testing to explore ancestry: neighbor

Bryan Kohberger told a fellow grad student that he explored his ancestry by submitting DNA for genetic testing – which could shed light on how investigators used forensic genealogy to zero in on th…

nypost.com

It's entirely possible that BK could have told this neighbour about a DNA test that confirmed his heritage, but that it wasn't BK who took the test. Considering they found him through IGG, can we not consider that someone in the wider family had been doing the research and had just shared their findings?. We don't know exactly what BK said to the neighbour, it's hearsay and completely open to paraphrasing on their part.
It's also just as possible that BK was embellishing his story and trying to make the neighbour feel silly about his Italian guess, telling him nope, German and I have the tests to prove it!. I feel like BK is the type of personality that enjoys belittling other people to make themselves feel better.
All obviously just speculation and MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Also so that an abandoned car won't get broken into, and there's the matter of leaving it in snow/rain.

And especially if you don't have friends or loved ones to occasionally start it while you're gone.

 

[Cool Cats]

All MOO

Well the defense has asked what 22 or 23 times now for the DNA discovery and the prosecution just keeps ignoring the request. So AT definitely is interested in seeing how they came to the conclusion it's BK's DNA. The longer they go without showing the more it makes me think they may have manipulated it to match BK's DNA.

That's just my opinion.

No. Prosecution does not ignore requests.

https://www.khq.com/news/bryan-kohbergers-defense-seeks-to-exclude-dna-evidence/article_bfe86044-d9ec-11ef-9c8d-

During a two-day hearing that happened on Thursday, Kohberger's defense team argued for the dismissal of DNA evidence linked to him. They claim that his Fourth Amendment rights were violated when law enforcement conducted a DNA test on a knife sheath found at the King Road house.

The defense, led by Anne Taylor, contends that police used multiple DNA identification services to match the knife sheath to Kohberger's relatives, violating the terms of service of these tools and Kohberger's right to privacy. Taylor also argued that uploading the DNA required a warrant, which law enforcement did not obtain.

"I struggle with the idea that DNA left at a crime scene, that there's any expectation or privacy by someone who leaves DNA at a crime scene, that that DNA can't be as you say searched without a warrant to determine identity," Judge Hippler said.

Bryan Kohberger update as judge rules on DNA records

Kohberger, 29, is charged with four counts of murder and one count of burglary in the deaths of four University of Idaho students.

www.newsweek.com

A judge has ordered prosecutors to turn over some DNA records to attorneys representing Bryan Kohberger, the man accused of the murders of four University of Idaho students.

On Thursday, Judge John Judge of Idaho's 2nd Judicial District ordered prosecutors to turn over some of the IGG records to Kohberger's attorneys.

"The court has now completed its review of the information provided by the state and orders the state to discover to the defense a portion of the IGG information," Judge wrote in the ruling.

www.courttv.com/news/prosecutor-more-than-20000-pieces-of-evidence-given-to-kohberger-attorneys/#:~:text=Prosecutors%20said%20that%20they%20have%20given%20Bryan%20Kohberger%27s,files%2C%20including%20more%20than%2050%20terabytes%20of%20data.

Prosecutor: More than 20,000 pieces of evidence given to Kohberger attorneys​

• 10,000 pages of reports and other written materials
• 10,200 photographs
• 9,200 tips
• 51 terabytes of audio/visual media and digital materials

In their motion, attorneys representing Kohberger specifically pointed to bodycam and dashcam footage from officers involved in his arrest in Pennsylvania, reports detailing forensic evidence collected from his car and parents’ home and police reports related to his arrest and incarceration in Pennsylvania.

In response, the prosecution said all known items had been disclosed, and that the state was unaware of any footage beyond what was already disclosed, and “on information and belief, understands there is no body cam footage.” Prosecutors said the forensic reports on evidence collected at Kohberger’s family’s home and from his car, including reports from the FBI laboratory in Quantico, Virginia, were given to the defense, as well as the opportunity to directly view and inspect items seized as part of the investigation.

The only record prosecutors said they had not disclosed to the defense as requested were the training records for officers involved in the investigation, which the state argued in its response to the defense’s motion falls outside the scope of discovery.

2 Cents

 

[SpiderFalcon]

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/013125Order-Unsealing-Stipulated-Motion-Sealed-Protective-Order-Sealed-PO.pdf

This might be BK's medical records, not sure, need to do further research

 

[SpiderFalcon]

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/011025-Stipulated-Motion-Seal-Stipulation-Protective-Order-Sealed-PO.pdf

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/011025-Stipulated-Motion-Sealed-Protective-Order.pdf

 

[SpiderFalcon]

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/011525-Protective-Order.pdf

 

[INfisherman]

The judge was skeptical of every argument the defense made, which was no surprise. The thing that did surprise me was just how weak those arguments were. I figured they’d at least have something that would give the judge pause, but there’s nothing there.

Hopefully we get a ruling this week, and this conversation becomes moot.

JH’s facial expressions during that segment of the hearing made quite the lasting impression for me. LOL

 

[wendy44]

SBM

Why would the neighbor make this up especially knowing that revealing this kind of information could cause him to be called as a witness in this case? JMO.

Well, his specific statement was "He talked about his ancestors. He had some sort of DNA test."

But, point taken. It's much more likely BK was the one making it up.
JMO

You are talking about Othram, not Buddie's DNA lab that opened 2 weeks ago. Othram, where LE goes with unsolved cases and cases where the state labs cannot get an answer, where the FBI goes when even they cannot get an answer. JMO.

Othram is amazing and they've solved over 1000 cases in the past 7 or 8 years. (Can you even name a Buddie's DNA type of lab that opened 2 weeks ago?) I don't think we know they weren't able to build a tree (it might have been said in court and I missed it) but you asked why the FBI got results in a week when Othram couldn't. And I speculated that the FBI had a larger number of matches to work with.

Othram works solely with forensic professionals, medical examiners and law enforcement. They're a private lab and their cases need to be funded. The vast majority of people who load profiles in DNA databases do so for ancestry, ethnicity and health traits. You can load a kit into Othram's database, but you have no ability to use it on their site for ancestry, ethnicity and health traits. A very small percentage of people are loading kits to a site where they can't do research or connect with relatives. They do this for the express purpose of forensic genealogy. It's very niche (but growing).

I don't know how many profiles are in the database at Othram--I looked but couldn't find that information. They did start partnering with Gene by Gene for forensic genetic genealogy about a year ago, so after the IGG was done in this case. Gene by Gene operates FamilyTreeDNA which has about 2 million kits. A lot of people use FamilyTreeDNA for its Big-Y kits and projects that trace family surnames, but it's not one of the more popular databases.

By contrast, ancestry has over 20 million kits and 23&Me has around 15 million kits. You can't load a third party kit to either of these sites, so they are not going to be available to law enforcement for DNA matching. Ancestry has something like 30 billion records and 100,000 family trees. If you're using DNA for ancestry research, this is the primary place you're going to have your kit.

MyHeritage has about 15 million kits. MyHeritage is known for having a great non-US database and you're able to load a third party kit. GEDmatch has about 2 million kits. It's primarily used for ancestry projects and direct comparisons of profiles between two kits that have used other services--you can compare your own kit from ancestry to someone who used 23&Me for example. They also have tools for people who like chromosome browsers, etc.

This is all just a rough overview to paint a picture of what's out there. We don't know which 4 databases the FBI used, but it was said in court that they at least used MyHeritage. They likely used GEDmatch. I speculated they had a significantly larger database, possibly by tens of millions, to work with in producing matches than Othram as the reason they produced the name more quickly. This is just common sense.
JMO

 

[schooling]

SBM

Well, his specific statement was "He talked about his ancestors. He had some sort of DNA test."

But, point taken. It's much more likely BK was the one making it up.
JMO

Othram is amazing and they've solved over 1000 cases in the past 7 or 8 years. (Can you even name a Buddie's DNA type of lab that opened 2 weeks ago?) I don't think we know they weren't able to build a tree (it might have been said in court and I missed it) but you asked why the FBI got results in a week when Othram couldn't. And I speculated that the FBI had a larger number of matches to work with.

Othram works solely with forensic professionals, medical examiners and law enforcement. They're a private lab and their cases need to be funded. The vast majority of people who load profiles in DNA databases do so for ancestry, ethnicity and health traits. You can load a kit into Othram's database, but you have no ability to use it on their site for ancestry, ethnicity and health traits. A very small percentage of people are loading kits to a site where they can't do research or connect with relatives. They do this for the express purpose of forensic genealogy. It's very niche (but growing).

I don't know how many profiles are in the database at Othram--I looked but couldn't find that information. They did start partnering with Gene by Gene for forensic genetic genealogy about a year ago, so after the IGG was done in this case. Gene by Gene operates FamilyTreeDNA which has about 2 million kits. A lot of people use FamilyTreeDNA for its Big-Y kits and projects that trace family surnames, but it's not one of the more popular databases.

By contrast, ancestry has over 20 million kits and 23&Me has around 15 million kits. You can't load a third party kit to either of these sites, so they are not going to be available to law enforcement for DNA matching. Ancestry has something like 30 billion records and 100,000 family trees. If you're using DNA for ancestry research, this is the primary place you're going to have your kit.

MyHeritage has about 15 million kits. MyHeritage is known for having a great non-US database and you're able to load a third party kit. GEDmatch has about 2 million kits. It's primarily used for ancestry projects and direct comparisons of profiles between two kits that have used other services--you can compare your own kit from ancestry to someone who used 23&Me for example. They also have tools for people who like chromosome browsers, etc.

This is all just a rough overview to paint a picture of what's out there. We don't know which 4 databases the FBI used, but it was said in court that they at least used MyHeritage. They likely used GEDmatch. I speculated they had a significantly larger database, possibly by tens of millions, to work with in producing matches than Othram as the reason they produced the name more quickly. This is just common sense.
JMO

Othram has thousands of creeps across this country losing sleep. They are amazing!

 

[wendy44]

I don't know if Howard Blum's book is an approved source, so if not mods please delete. But first BK and MK argued about the route home, BK's choice to go many miles out of the way south, winning.
Then before the traffic stop BK discussed his problem with the school, basically blaming the students and their laziness for his problems. BK never thought he'd be let go, telling MK that he has a right to defend himself. Probably thinking back to his debate days.
PS I didn't spend money on this tale, which has it's share of inaccuracies. There was a free PDF link on Reddit a few months ago.

We've talked about Blum's book before, so I think it's okay. This part about the cross country trip was probably one of the most interesting things in the book.

Like you said, there was a big argument, according to Blum, who described BK's father, MK, feeling ambushed by the force of BK's anger. They had agreed around Thanksgiving to take the quickest, most logical route along I-90. Just as they were about to drive off, BK insisted they go south through Colorado and pick up I-70. This made no sense to MK due to the potential weather in the Rockies with a car like the Elantra and due to the fact that it was a much longer route. Blum described it as "volatile", with MK eventually giving in. Blum describes him as being thrown for a loop by the sheer scale and intensity of BK's objections.
JMO

 

[INfisherman]

I don't know what the hell it is, but these killers tend to have horrible driving records. I guess it goes to impulsivity and disregard for authority.

…desire for confrontation & the quick thrill of being right there and let go by the police, possibly, for repeat killers.

Oh my. First my search history & now my driving record. Yikes. Well, at least now I know 2 attorneys I definitely won’t be calling.

 

[Kemug]

We have all learned by now what a weird personality BK has. But I do believe that if BK has affection for anybody, it is his father.