Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #200

[Deleted member 229974]

A good defence team will prevent or limit appeals down the road. This is often overlooked and it actually serves the victims families.

I don't know much about this defence team but it takes a special person to be a public defender and somebody has to do it!

And thank God they do!

 

[Spartygirl]

Because she thinks, erroneously, that they were the ones that spread the MW's leaked photos to the public, as evidenced by her email, that was used in past hearings, asking for the MS to be arrested. (TMS was sent crime photos by a member of a public and TMS immediately notified LE.) In general I believe she finds all media more of a nuisance than a boon, and she will happily strike them at the smallest provocation.

All MOO based on what I've seen.

And yet, BM is allowed

SMH

 

[statt#1]

I don't have an issue with a fair trial, really don't have an issue with a healthy defense either. I do think one could argue that some of the tactics used in this case may not bode so well in the mind of a juror.

And if that would be the case, then what good is it in truly making a good defense?

I for one would have heightened awareness to untruths as a result of being led down a path of belief that turned out to be a nothingburger. Fool me once.....

 

[shonyakay]

Some of the timeline:

DELPHI TIMELINE: The search for Libby & Abby's killer

On February 13, 2017, Liberty "Libby" German and Abigail "Abby" Williams went for a hike near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi. Here's a look at what has happened since that day.

www.wrtv.com

That news broadcast is wrong on the time the girls' were dropped off. Evidence shows it was 1:49 p.m.

"Through interviews, reviews of electronic records, and review of video at the Hoosier Harvestore, investigators believe Victim 1 and Victim 2 were dropped off across from the Mears Farm at 1:49 p.m. on February 13, 2017 by (redacted)."

Also...

"Video from the Hoosier Harvestore shows at 1:49 p.m. a white car matching (redacted) vehicle traveling away from the entrance across from the Mears farm."

Victim 1 and 2 are Abby and Libby and Kelsi had a white car.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

 

[TTF14]

I don't have an issue with a fair trial, really don't have an issue with a healthy defense either. I do think one could argue that some of the tactics used in this case may not bode so well in the mind of a juror.

And if that would be the case, then what good is it in truly making a good defense?

I for one would have heightened awareness to untruths as a result of being led down a path of belief that turned out to be a nothingburger. Fool me once.....

Thankfully the jury is not privy to any of the vitriol toward the defense team leading up to the trial. They will only see what's presented to them day after day.

As always, JMO>

 

[susiQ]

What wasn't the point? I said that if the hair was unidentified, they'd say so. What they would not do is blindly speculate to the identity of the contributor, as it weakens the effect of mentioning the hair in the first place. An unidentified hair would mean that it wasn't tested, and belongs to someone who could be the "real killer." They could not make that argument however, because the hair has obviously been tested.

Honest question: How do you think they were able to determine that it was female hair, and has a familial connection to Libby, even though it was found in Abby's hands?

Obviously it was tested, and people are somehow falling for what the defense is trying to do.

As we learned in the LISK case, foreign hair can play a major role even if it doesn't belong to a killer.

Well, they didn’t test it for DNA which should have been done 7 years ago. My point is, not testing it is just another failure in this investigation which the D was only too happy to show. MOO.

 

[Boxer]

Nothing about the unspent round being buried. Not sure why someone would bury the round instead of taking it with them.

Bullet found near bodies of 2 Indiana teens in Delphi killings linked to suspect’s gun, officials say

An analysis performed on a pistol owned by Richard Allen found that the .40-caliber unspent round with extraction marks on it was allegedly used in the weapon, court documents say.

www.nbcnews.com

Leaf litter everywhere.

 

[Arkay]

When the trial is said and done, i think people who hate them will change their minds about them....they may still hate them, but they will see how brilliant they are.

I don’t “hate” them at all.

I don’t know them and they have zero to do with my own life.

What I am is DISMISSIVE of them.

IMO their negligence about securing the crime scene photos of A and L was not only horrific, but directly led to another death, this time by suicide.

Then their purported theories in their endless Franks were not substantiated by any evidence.

The Constitution requires the law to regard RA as innocent until proven otherwise. The D’s job is to prove his innocence.

IMO if he is innocent the facts will show it, rather than the defense creating smoke and mirror distraction tactics, or write-your-own-ending narratives.

Just my opinion.

 

[katydid23]

Yeah...but nope with this Defense team

There is a difference between what you pose as a good defense team and then there are Rozzi & Baldwin and their minions.

I have never seen a defense team like this before.

They have proved to be Unethical, Unbelievable & Unprofessional.

I can respect a good defense attorney and have seen them in trials.

This team is NOT that.

My father was a very well respected and successful defense attorney. He won many hard fought trials, often taking on huge corporations and government agencies. He was a long time political activist in Berkeley. He would often be asked by judges and prosecutors, to represent their own sons or brothers. That tickled him because he knew then they respected him even though they were adversaries for years.

I think he'd be disgusted by the tactics of this D team however. IMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

That news broadcast is wrong on the time the girls' were dropped off. Evidence shows it was 1:49 p.m.

"Through interviews, reviews of electronic records, and review of video at the Hoosier Harvestore, investigators believe Victim 1 and Victim 2 were dropped off across from the Mears Farm at 1:49 p.m. on February 13, 2017 by (redacted)."

Also...

"Video from the Hoosier Harvestore shows at 1:49 p.m. a white car matching (redacted) vehicle traveling away from the entrance across from the Mears farm."

Victim 1 and 2 are Abby and Libby and Kelsi had a white car.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

Actually, the above mentioned time was when the vehicle passed what was likely the HHS cam. I don't think they really know what time they arrived, other than the time the phone calls were made.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Truth. And it really is a shame they've chosen to throw this kind of deception in to the mix. I'd expect better however it appears to be modus operandi.

Abby and Libby. Teen girls. Out for a walk. Full of life.

It’s the Defense's job to ensure that the Prosecution proves beyond a reasonable doubt that their client is guilty of the crime they’re being accused of. They’re doing their job to ensure no innocent person is penalized for a crime that they did not commit. IMO

 

[statt#1]

Thankfully the jury is not privy to any of the vitriol toward the defense team leading up to the trial. They will only see what's presented to them day after day.

As always, JMO>

I claimed no vitriol...you used the word. I do think the jury heard about the hair though, and they also will likely come to a resolution in their mind about how that business went down. My argument is that the tactic used by the DT might not bode well in the mind of a juror. Simple as that.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

As a trial watcher, your opinion is that it's a hoax.

As a trial watcher, my opinion is that it's important and I want to see how this plays out. Who the hair belongs to and why the investigators didn't follow up on it (and told Angela Ganote to pull reporting on DNA).

What else has LE told media outlets to pull so the public doesn't know about it? <modsnip: Stating something unsourced as fact and tacking on a JMO is not allowed.>

As always, IMO

So there's an illegal conspiracy to withhold information from the public by LE in this case?

 

[TTF14]

That news broadcast is wrong on the time the girls' were dropped off. Evidence shows it was 1:49 p.m.

"Through interviews, reviews of electronic records, and review of video at the Hoosier Harvestore, investigators believe Victim 1 and Victim 2 were dropped off across from the Mears Farm at 1:49 p.m. on February 13, 2017 by (redacted)."

Also...

"Video from the Hoosier Harvestore shows at 1:49 p.m. a white car matching (redacted) vehicle traveling away from the entrance across from the Mears farm."

Victim 1 and 2 are Abby and Libby and Kelsi had a white car.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

Multiple different times have been reported as the drop-off time. I suppose we should go with the CCTV evidence, but even the family said their phone records put it at 1:38 or 1:39.

I guess somewhere between 1:30 and 1:50 is a safe bet. Or not safe, as it may be, because it's such a tight timeline that every minute counts.

Hopefully the jury can sort through it.

As always, JMO

 

[Tricia]

Can someone please clear something up for me?
Did the search parties search the area where Abby and Libby were eventually found BEFORE they were found? In other words, did they not find their bodies under the tree the first time they looked there? OR did they not search that area until they actually found Abby and Libby? That would be the first time that area was searched when they found the girls.
I hope that makes sense.
Thank you,
Tricia

 

[TTF14]

So there's an illegal conspiracy to withhold information from the public by LE in this case?

That is not at all what I said.

I do think there's a strategic reason some things have been scrubbed.

As always, JMO.

 

[SouthEnd]

It is early hours of Monday the 21st for me over here in the UK, and as we are about to enter the first full week of trial - that will be crucial for the Prosecution, I wanted to make a compilation of the P's weaknesses, as I understand them, and the points I hope they will offer clarity on.
(IANAL so these are all just my semi-informed thoughts)

- Time of Death. Early on I was hopeful that the coroner's report - not the summary - would have an exact ToD but it is looking like that due to the temperature, the ToD is much less cut-and-dry than I was hoping for. I hope the P will have means to fortify ToD IF the coroner's report was inconclusive on that front. Otherwise there is a crack for the D to plant doubt re: P's timeline

- Weapon(s) used. Two weapons do not mean two perps, but the idea of them makes the D's theory more palatable. I would like to see if the types of wound can be explained by different parts of a bladed weapon (aka boxcutter, perhaps, edge vs side). I'd like to see an expert testify on the wounds and on the potential weapons.

- Crime-scene: A lot has been made about multiple perps, and I will need to see the P presenting evidence that shuts any doubt down. Do they have footsteps, that are only matched to one pair of shoes + the girls? A lot will depend on what the ground was like that day...

- Phone reconnecting with tower. I personally have IT experience so I understand the concept of the phone turning on by itself/trying to reconnect because of a myriad of reasons, but I need the P to present an expert that explains things in a very simple and easy to follow way.

- Confessions. The D will make a lot on the subject of false confessions, and I would like the P to present an expert on false confessions and walk us through why RA's confessions don't show the characteristics of a false confessions, with statistics.

These are the points that keep me awake, tbh. Hope we will get some strong and clear expert testimony that fortifies the case.

All MOO

 

[katydid23]

Maybe they tested it. They have access to the defendant and victims DNA to make a familial link to Libby but they would not have access to Libby's relatives DNA to fully identify it. JMO

That's expensive and time consuming though. And the P already spent 20k doing the genetic testing so why would the D want to do that.

Why the big push to see if it's an Auntie or a cousin? None of them are going to be the killers or have any involvement. It is a bright red herring.

 

[TTF14]

Can someone please clear something up for me?
Did the search parties search the area where Abby and Libby were eventually found BEFORE they were found? In other words, did they not find their bodies under the tree the first time they looked there? OR did they not search that area until they actually found Abby and Libby? That would be the first time that area was searched when they found the girls.
I hope that makes sense.
Thank you,
Tricia

Nothing that has been reported on in mainstream media. If you follow alternative/social media posts, searchers have spoken out and said, unequivocally, they searched there.

As always, JMO

 

[shonyakay]

Actually, the above mentioned time was when the vehicle passed the HHS cam. I don't think they really know what time they arrived, other than the time the phone calls were made.

I am pretty sure the Hoosier Harveststore building is literally right by the drop off point.
I will double check on that though.