Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #200

[Seattle1]

You mention an issue with credentialed media vs the general public. I haven't followed this case closely and wonder what this issue is about. Thanks.

The Court defines "Press" for this case in the following ORDER pursuant to I.C. 34-46-4-1.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

That’s really what it comes down to; showing that the markings found on that unspent round could only have been made by RA’s gun, and not by any other gun.

For that, I expect them to explain the science behind this, and how accurate such a conclusion would be.

Yep. The burden is on the prosecution to prove it's case beyond a reasonable doubt. That means the evidence they give the jury must be very compelling.

This burden means they must show no other plausible explanation for the evidence it presents at trial.

https://www.egattorneys.com/proof-beyond-a-reasonable-doubt

 

[Melted]

I think it's very clear it was familial female DNA. The defense even admitted that.

If it had been unknown, the P would have continued with the Genealogy testing to find out whose it was. But once they learned it was a close female relative, it was a dead end. They have a video of the person with a gun who ordered them down the hill. It wasn't Libby's female cousin or Auntie.

The defense didn’t admit it was familial dna, they said it’s possible.

 

[Simply Southern]

If they are making it public to the press by the law of the constitution it has to be accessible to anyone in the public

Can you post that law? I keep seeing post it’s the law but so far no one has produced the law.

I searched hi and lo and find NO Law. The laws that apply to the press do not include the public.

Moo

 

[justtrish]

I'm afraid that is the case. This trial is going to reveal evidence that will be graphic and horrific. There will be data and etc....
I hope I am up to the horrific and graphic.
:0(

I know LE in this case gets a lot of negative comments because of the misfiled tip and the taped over interviews. I understand mistakes happen and if not intentional I don't think it's a conspiracy. I wish mistakes were never made, because I think RA would have been arrested much sooner. If that tip wasn't misfiled then those interviews would not have been lost because they likely wouldn't have been done in the first place. If RA had been arrested in the first few days, so much about this case would be different. I do think the LE involved in this case lived it, saw it up close, they know the evil first hand and there is no way they aren't forever changed by what they have seen and what they know about this crime. Many of them likely have children of their own and maybe some even had children the same ages at Libby and Abby. I think they wanted the right guy arrested for this crime. The fact they had so many other possible POIs and none were ever arrested tells me they didn't want ANY guy, they want THE guy and they got him. Soon we will have the details of exactly what they know. They've lived with it for nearly 8 years.

I can't imagine what the jurors will think. We all have had small previews and bits of info over the last 7+ years. They are about to hear it all for the very first time start to finish. They will never be the same again either. I hope there was/is a way for the families to get this info before they hear it in court. Maybe even a private viewing of the crime scene photos if they want to before they are shown in court.

 

[Warwick7]

"We also are not permitted to get up and leave the room, unless she says court is having a break. That happens about every 1.5 hours."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848048362932859194

 

[acehard]

Can you post that law? I keep seeing post it’s the law but so far no one has produced the law.

I searched hi and lo and find NO Law. The laws that apply to the press do not include the public.

Moo

If there's a gag order until the trial is complete, I don't see how that can be unlawful. It's the Jury making the decision, not the public. MOO

 

[MassGuy]

The defense didn’t admit it was familial dna, they said it’s possible.

Which they would not say unless they knew it was. It substantially weakens the effect of that hair being found, as they’d rather the identity of the contributor remain unknown.

“Unidentified human hair was found in the victim’s hand,” is way more effective than conceding that it is not only female, but likely belongs to a family member.

One cannot merely look at a hair and determine gender and familial connection.

 

[Emma Peel]

I don’t know whether the ethics questions have been settled. Have they?

The defense seating is interesting because I’m not aware of anyone else provided seating by prosecution or defense who is not a party to the case and thus subject to the gag order. If Motta is now a defense party, when was that arrangement confirmed, and did the information he streamed at any point violate the gag order that covered defense parties?

I hope his involvement in the dissemination of protected information — including photos of deceased children, one of whom was nude — is thoroughly investigated as to whether there were any ethical or criminal breaches and whether there were any profit-driven motivations driving his actions. Criminal perpetuators are not the only persons motivated to sell salacious materials, either overtly or via illegal means.

JMO.

Ya know, Bob Motta and Hennessey both showed up at the SCOIN supporting Cara, Baldwin, Rozzi and RA, and Bob & Hennessey & Ausbrook attended various pre-trial hearings; Bob supported Hennessey's work repping Baldwin and Rozzi in the Contempt Hearing. I recall listening to one of Defense Diary's lives a while back and Bob said he asked if the D could get him seats for the trial and the D said sure. This happened months and months ago. Anyone who listened to DD last fall/winter saw this develop, Bob hosting Hennessey, Cara & Ausbrook on his LIve lawtube program, along with his wife and legal defense partner Ali.

Defense lawyers help each other out. That's how the legal profession works in the US - universally. And Judge Gull absolutely knows this. And if anyone doesn't like it, IMO, they really need to get a life.

IMO, the rest is irrelevant. MS doesn't belong to Defense counsel circles. Why would they? They don't practice Defense law. The weirdest thing I've ever seen them do is to conflate Motta's professional relationship with this case's Defense professionals ... with themselves. And carry on about it. I'm pretty sure MS knows how this profession works; and that the drama must be manufactured (for clicks?). And you know who else gets how the legal defense profession support network works?

Criminal Judges.

JMHO

 

[twall]

"We also are not permitted to get up and leave the room, unless she says court is having a break. That happens about every 1.5 hours."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848048362932859194

Sheesh, seems like she is holding them hostage. JMO

 

[Simply Southern]

The legal definition of what qualifies for press privileges under Indiana law

2024 Indiana Code :: Title 34. Civil Law and Procedure :: Article 46. Privileged Communications :: Chapter 4. Journalist's Privilege Against Disclosure of Information Source :: 34-46-4-1. Applicability of Chapter

Justia Free Databases of U.S. Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

2023 Indiana Code​

Universal Citation:
IN Code § 34-46-4-1 (2023)
Learn moreThis media-neutral citation is based on the American Association of Law Libraries Universal Citation Guide and is not necessarily the official citation.
Next
Sec. 1. This chapter applies to the following persons:

(1) any person connected with, or any person who has been connected with or employed by:

(A) a newspaper or other periodical issued at regular intervals and having a general circulation; or

(B) a recognized press association or wire service; as a bona fide owner, editorial or reportorial employee, who receives or has received income from legitimate gathering, writing, editing and interpretation of news; and

(2) any person connected with a licensed radio or television station as owner, official, or as an editorial or reportorial employee who receives or has received income from legitimate gathering, writing, editing, interpreting, announcing or broadcasting of news.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Proof will be in the crime scene photos.

I've only read/heard there was little blood at the scene (but blood on bodies etc).

If they were killed and bled out there we'll see it.

I will take a guess that the material that you have read is the Franks Memorandums?

This is the only source that claims there was very little blood on Abby.

But, with the testimony of Cisero (blood splatter expert) we now know that AW and her jacket were saturated with blood that had pooled under her hoodie.


This can be found in the 3 day hearings transcripts.


JMO

 

[Kudzuu]

I have a question that hopefully has nothing to do with shoes. I can't seem to imagine it in my head.

The killer was interrupted before he could "have his way" per testimony that is documented on this thread. But he had time to dress Abby in Libby's clothing and kill her? Seems to me that would take a while.

So what interruption could be possible to allow the extra time to kill and stage the scene?

 

[rez125]

I will take a guess that the material that you have read is the Franks Memorandums?

This is the only source that claims there was very little blood on Abby.

But, with the testimony of Cisero (blood splatter expert) we now know that AW and her jacket were saturated with blood that had pooled under her hoodie.


This can be found in the 3 day hearings transcripts.


JMO

It was ages ago I either read it or watched something on YT.

I've now read about the spatter per the expert.

 

[justtrish]

Ya know, Bob Motta and Hennessey both showed up at the SCOIN supporting Cara, Baldwin, Rozzi and RA, and Bob & Hennessey & Ausbrook attended various pre-trial hearings; Bob supported Hennessey's work repping Baldwin and Rozzi in the Contempt Hearing. I recall listening to one of Defense Diary's lives a while back and Bob said he asked if the D could get him seats for the trial and the D said sure. This happened months and months ago. Anyone who listened to DD last fall/winter saw this develop, Bob hosting Hennessey, Cara & Ausbrook on his LIve lawtube program, along with his wife and legal defense partner Ali.

Defense lawyers help each other out. That's how the legal profession works in the US - universally. And Judge Gull absolutely knows this. And if anyone doesn't like it, IMO, they really need to get a life.

IMO, the rest is irrelevant. MS doesn't belong to Defense counsel circles. Why would they? They don't practice Defense law. The weirdest thing I've ever seen them do is to conflate Motta's professional relationship with this case's Defense professionals ... with themselves. And carry on about it. I'm pretty sure MS knows how this profession works; and that the drama must be manufactured. And you know who else gets how the legal defense profession support network works?

Criminal Judges.

JMHO

If Bob is helping them out then he should be part of the gag order then. If he isn't helping them out, he shouldn't be getting info from the defense and then sharing it or being their mouthpiece to float info online. That is the issue I have. Those messages from the Due Process Gang where he's calling Judge Gull a ratchet B%$CH and speaking horribly about the victims family members, and discussing potential jury tampering. In on that chat was another attorney who represented RA's lawyers in their fight to stay on his case. It is so unprofessional and if he's working with the defense in any way he shouldn't be talking about this case on his podcast or anywhere else online.

I would think after the leaked photos and the unfortunate death of someone involved in that, then the mess with being removed and then back in as RA's defense team, they would not associate with those that are doing shady things so they don't give off any appearance of inappropriate behavior.

 

[BUF]

If there was any funny business with the shoes, the defense would have mentioned that.

Exactly. Time to move on from the shoes imo.

Waiting to hear about tomorrow’s testimony which we will hopefully hear some new facts…..getting bits and pieces from several reports. These reporters must feel like they’ve returned to the dark ages having to physically write all their notes while listening to testimony.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Baldwin also said hair found in Abby's hand was a possible match to a female relative of Libby, and not Allen.

I don't see how this statement made by the defense helps their client much unless there's evidence showing that this female relative is connected to their murder.

I doubt the jury will be distracted by this attempt to obfuscate the hair evidence. JMO.

New details revealed in Delphi girls' double murder as opening arguments begin

Richard Allen is accused of killing Abby Williams, 13, and Libby German, 14, on an Indiana trail in 2017.

abcnews.go.com

 

[justtrish]

I have a question that hopefully has nothing to do with shoes. I can't seem to imagine it in my head.

The killer was interrupted before he could "have his way" per testimony that is documented on this thread. But he had time to dress Abby in Libby's clothing and kill her? Seems to me that would take a while.

So what interruption could be possible to allow the extra time to kill and stage the scene?

This just my opinion based on what I read posted and what I heard from MS podcast.

He took them down the hill and had planned to do something right down there.. NOT crossing the water. BUT he was interrupted at that location.. which forced him to move them and go across the water to the other side and where they were found. So by interruption I take that to mean he was interrupted at the initial location he planned to do what he was going to do.. something made him force them across the water to the other side.

So if he had them undress or begin undressing just after going down the hill a ways.. it could account for clothing being found in that area.. then they go across the water.. maybe with some of their clothing or carrying some of it.. the water in Feb is cold so I can see him saying get dressed or maybe Abby didn't have her shirt and bra off... so she puts on Libby's sweatshirt because it's cold. I don't know that he did the redressing.. it could have been he let Abby put clothing back on.. we know from Cisero's testimony that her was not redressed after she was cut due to no blood being on the lower part of her shirts where it would be if someone put a shirt over the head of a person that was bleeding from a neck wound.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Source please.

Not the original poster but BM misreported Clicks testimony this spring during hearings. He read from his own notes on a live you tube broadcast that Click gave sworn testimony about a phone belonging to a POI that had video of this POI kidnapping a young female and holding her hostage at gunpoint.
This information spread like wildfire and was picked up and retweeted by CW (RA’s appellate attorney) as factual.
BM went on several other programs that evening and repeated this incorrect information. It caused quite a lot ot chaos.
On March 19th he posted a statement on his Defense Diaries Twitter page admitting to his error. But alas; the damage was done. IMO
The video involved a male and was a drug deal gone bad. Not at all in common with the kidnapping, undressing and murder of two young teen girls in Delphi. He addressed his mistake here as well beginning at 2:50 mm

 

[susiQ]

Which they would not say unless they knew it was. It substantially weakens the effect of that hair being found, as they’d rather the identity of the contributor remain unknown.

“Unidentified human hair was found in the victim’s hand,” is way more effective than conceding that it is not only female, but likely belongs to a family member.

One cannot merely look at a hair and determine gender and familial connection.

I don’t think that was the point at all. They certainly knew it wasn’t a fur ball, lol! The point being, this hair, even though determined to be female, was NEVER tested. Just one more thing not done. LE can’t just assume it belongs to one of the girls, or sister or mother or grandmother. How did they know that these murders were not committed by a man and a woman? JMO