Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #202

[SouthEnd]

As a woman driving alone, I would not stop and engage with a man who looked like he had mud and blood all him.

I would call 911 if I thought he needed help. But I wouldn't speak to him unless it was obvious he was injured, which this guy apparently was not.

Calling 911 in reality has always been 50/50 for me.

I have called 911 two times that I remember of: A man was trying to force a half-naked girl to the ground (turns out he was restraining her because she wanted to run into the traffic, that was a terrifying experience). A motorcycle crashed in front of me.

Times I should have called 911 but did not, because I was terrified: Multiple gunshots directly next to my house (I was scared that if the police showed up the perps would know which house had called). Going for a run and seeing two groups of men fighting with machetes (I turned and run the other way around, and didn't call because one of them saw me and was pointing at me). I did not call 911 in cases when a stranger pulled a knife in front of me, because it didn't even occur me to do so. Seeing a bloody male, probably seeing someone hit them, but I wasn't sure. (I didn't call it in because there were other people around, and it looked like someone had already called 911)

All this to say that in my experience, my expectation of what I would do most of the times does not coincide with what I actually end up doing... I don't blame the witness in the least, I honestly don't know what I'd have done in her shoes.

(Alternatively I am a terrible citizen, which is also a possibility.)

All MOO

 

[shonyakay]

It puzzling how the P got her sighting right, but the D insisted she did not say bloody.

Richard Allen PCA source:

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

View attachment 540022

To be fair, in one report it said the bloody part was not found in her first statement but not because she didn't say it. She says she did say it from the beginning but that part got erased over.

 

[SouthEnd]

I'm more over here wondering if she saw a muddy guy beside a "visibly stressed" girl in pink - is it possible she saw AW at the Mears lot with a man?

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 5 live blog

Wednesday is day 5 of testimonies in the Delphi Murders trial begins at the Carroll County courthouse. Follow our live blog for updates.

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"While there, she said she saw a group of people at the Mears entrance, including a girl wearing pink who appeared visibly stressed."

I doubt this, simply because the D or the P or someone would have asked her, and it would have been mentioned in at least one of the interviews.

All moo

 

[Vern]

But what do their descriptions matter when there is photographic evidence of a man that they all agree is the man they saw that day?

They matter because there is 0% chance of two different men being on the trail both overdressed for the weather in same description of clothing RA puts himself wearing.Yet only one of them seen by the female witnesses on the trail.

Perhaps the D-Team should go with there being a set of identcal twins out there at the very same time RA has placed himself there overdressed for the weather exactly as they were at the same spots they were? One becomes magicly invisible to any approaching witness and also doesn't apparently like his image beingcaught on video either. That's as plausible as Ritual Sacrifice Murder theory. IMO.

Cue the circus music that continues to loop in my brian.

 

[Bbgiraffe]

I am interested to hear the defense i wonder where Richard actually was after 2:15 if not at the trail. And if anyone saw him anywhere else or heard from him between 2:15 and 4:00. Maybe he stopped for gas or a sandwich or messaged his wife/daughter. Though I feel like we wouldn't be seeing what we have seen this whole time from the defense if they could show he wasn't there at that time. Or if they could show another male or alternate suspect definitively.

Nobody reports seeing anyone else fitting bridge guy's description there, the description that happens to match what Richard says he was wearing.

I know it's all on the prosecution to prove it's him, but the defense doesn't seem to be really trying to create much logical doubt in this.

 

[MassGuy]

I get what you are saying but in my mind may is a long way from WAS. But I certainly see how multiple weapons works better for a defense trying to sell multiple perps.

Before this pathologist testified, I thought the killer may have used two separate weapons, which I had no problem believing one man could do.

From what I can gather though, the wounds sound consistent, and the dispute revolves around the weapon itself. The description of the wounds sounds exactly like what I would expect from a box cutter.

The defense will make it appear that the pathologist believes two different weapons were used, because he was torn on what weapon he thought it could be.

Good luck. Because it looks like it was only one weapon, and two weapons absolutely doesn’t preclude this from being one offender.

 

[MassGuy]

I’m going with the former.

So you really think she did see blood?

 

[ClearAhead]

I think one could read a sexual motive into crime due to Libby being naked and at one point Abby was partially or fully undressed, we will never know if Abby was fully naked at some point,
But lack of evidence that either were sexually abused means state can't presume to know what the intent of the perpetrator was, and whether it was sexually motivated so opining as he did in opening that RA took the girls to sexually assault them needs evidence,
The idea that he was disturbed is opinion not fact,

RA was not charged with sexual assault so it’s not an issue to be proven. His felony murder charge includes kidnapping.

As in all trials, the jury will be instructed that Opening Statements presented by attorneys are not to be considered as evidence.

Furthermore, motive need not be proven. Consider how impossible it would be to prove the thoughts in someone’s head motivating anyone to kill. Proving they committed the acts which they are accused of BARD is what’s required if a jury votes to convict.

JMO

 

[shonyakay]

The bloody man witness was always a mess, we didn’t even know who was changing her mind, her or what LE was writing down and how many times. But everyone was desperate to put him there at 4 so here we are.

Yeah so desperate the part where she said he was bloody in her first statement was erased. Good grief.

 

[MiniMoo]

As a woman driving alone, I would not stop and engage with a man who looked like he had mud and blood all him.

I would call 911 if I thought he needed help. But I wouldn't speak to him unless it was obvious he was injured, which this guy apparently was not.

I think I'm a bit of a fool because in a few situations I chose to get involved and some of those situations weren't safe, but I wouldn't change it.

Understandable, of course, if you are all alone and not sure of your own safety, but at least you would call 911 or would have called 911.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[photographer4]

Bbbut, it was much too early to be distressed, when allegedly the girls were still assumed to be in town, at Abby's friend's house or elsewhere on an unallowed, but harmless excursion.
Maybe, we learn of an explanation ....

I revisited Susan Hendrick's book this morning: Down The Hill - here are some quotes from the book (pls note: I've shortened names to initials to make typing easier).

"A little after 3pm, LG's father DG pulled into one of hte parking areas and waited for the girls".
"After waiting for a bit, he called LG's cell phone at 3:11pm no answer, no response"
"By 3:30pm.... he exited his car and began searching along the trails for her and Abby".

The book goes on to say:
"DG continued down the trail to the creek and called his mom"
"DG started his car and backed away from the pickup spot, checking his rearview mirror in hopes that LG and AW would run up waving for him to turn back".

Further:
"Both TG and BP started repeatedly calling and texting LG. As 4pm approached, BP and TG grew more and more anxious and decided to head over the to the trail." -- the author goes on to note that BP and TG drove the two paths at this time that the kids could have possibly taken if they'd tried to walk home on their own."

At some point, per the book, BP calls MP who clocked out early from work to go help. MP called KG to leave work and go help.

PER THE BOOK:
It does NOT sound like it could have been family in the Mear's lot looking stressed or muddy imo. Is it possible SC actually saw AW at the Mear's lot with a muddy man?

 

[ClearAhead]

Interesting. I wonder if any other podcasters claim to have heard that? Or MSM maybe?

I don’t know. They have remarked the acoustics in the courtroom are not very good.

 

[WildHuncher]

I'm more over here wondering if she saw a muddy guy beside a "visibly stressed" girl in pink - is it possible she saw AW at the Mears lot with a man?

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 5 live blog

Wednesday is day 5 of testimonies in the Delphi Murders trial begins at the Carroll County courthouse. Follow our live blog for updates.

www.wishtv.com

"While there, she said she saw a group of people at the Mears entrance, including a girl wearing pink who appeared visibly stressed."

By most reports, she saw muddy bloody walking alone.

 

[Bergmann]

I wonder whether this all sounds more convincing to a jury than it does to me so far?

Witnesses that confirm seeing someone as BG, but with descriptions that don't to me sound like RA. Will they sound like similar people to the jury?

Wait till they hear that despite this being a brutal and bloody double murder, with suggestions of SA motivation, that there's no DNA or forensics placing RA at the crime scene, nor the same evidence types linking the girls or crime scene to RA.

That's not for you or me who have followed this crime and investigation, but for a jury hearing all this for the first time.

JMO but the jury's heads must be spinning!

 

[shonyakay]

I revisited Susan Hendrick's book this morning: Down The Hill - here are some quotes from the book (pls note: I've shortened names to initials to make typing easier).

"A little after 3pm, LG's father DG pulled into one of hte parking areas and waited for the girls".
"After waiting for a bit, he called LG's cell phone at 3:11pm no answer, no response"
"By 3:30pm.... he exited his car and began searching along the trails for her and Abby".

The book goes on to say:
"DG continued down the trail to the creek and called his mom"
"DG started his car and backed away from the pickup spot, checking his rearview mirror in hopes that LG and AW would run up waving for him to turn back".

Further:
"Both TG and BP started repeatedly calling and texting LG. As 4pm approached, BP and TG grew more and more anxious and decided to head over the to the trail." -- the author goes on to note that BP and TG drove the two paths at this time that the kids could have possibly taken if they'd tried to walk home on their own."

At some point, per the book, BP calls MP who clocked out early from work to go help. MP called KG to leave work and go help.

PER THE BOOK:
It does NOT sound like it could have been family in the Mear's lot looking stressed or muddy imo. Is it possible SC actually saw AW at the Mear's lot with a muddy man?

Approaching 4 means it wasn't 4 just yet. So you can't rule it out.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

So you really think she did see blood?

Nooo. The first paragraph of your post (which I tried to find again) that you believe the “latter”, no blood. I believed the former, that LE messed up.

 

[gremlin444]

I'm more over here wondering if she saw a muddy guy beside a "visibly stressed" girl in pink - is it possible she saw AW at the Mears lot with a man?

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 5 live blog

Wednesday is day 5 of testimonies in the Delphi Murders trial begins at the Carroll County courthouse. Follow our live blog for updates.

www.wishtv.com

"While there, she said she saw a group of people at the Mears entrance, including a girl wearing pink who appeared visibly stressed."

The article has been edited since earlier today when it was all lumped together as one event--seeing the man, seeing the group, seeing the girl. Over lunch time it was edited to clarify:

" She didn’t walk the trail that day, but drove by to see how busy it was. While there, she said she saw a group of people at the Mears entrance, including a girl wearing pink who appeared visibly stressed. She also saw a man covered in “mud” and “blood” walking along a country road. "

 

[Justice101]

Several of us were discussing guns and got off topic on wild hogs. The segue contained a lot of incorrect information. The thread was deleted. Rightfully so.

I go to the end and read backwards myself because lots of stuff gets repeated

 

[ClearAhead]

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-combative-testimony-from-another-bridge-guy-witness/

“Defense attorney Andrew Baldwin said her 2017 statement consistently said the man was “muddy” and not “bloody.” He noted that “blood” didn’t appear in a transcript of her interview.

That led to an objection from the state.

Baldwin mentioned a second follow-up interview from Carbaugh in which she said “mud” and not “blood.”

Carbaugh responded that she did mention blood, but police didn’t write it down. She also said her videotaped interview was lost due to problems with the police’s recording system. The state has said some early interviews associated with the case were lost due to an error.

Baldwin gave her a transcript of an interview and asked where it said blood.

“I do not see it in here, but I do remember talking to the officer about it,” she said.

Baldwin brought up a third interview from 2019. In that one, he said Carbaugh used blood and not mud.

“I understand you’re doing your job,” she told Baldwin. “I saw a man on the side of the road with mud and blood, and that’s that.”

 

[Arkay]

Calling 911 in reality has always been 50/50 for me.

I have called 911 two times that I remember of: A man was trying to force a half-naked girl to the ground (turns out he was restraining her because she wanted to run into the traffic, that was a terrifying experience). A motorcycle crashed in front of me.

Times I should have called 911 but did not, because I was terrified: Multiple gunshots directly next to my house (I was scared that if the police showed up the perps would know which house had called). Going for a run and seeing two groups of men fighting with machetes (I turned and run the other way around, and didn't call because one of them saw me and was pointing at me). I did not call 911 in cases when a stranger pulled a knife in front of me, because it didn't even occur me to do so. Seeing a bloody male, probably seeing someone hit them, but I wasn't sure. (I didn't call it in because there were other people around, and it looked like someone had already called 911)

All this to say that in my experience, my expectation of what I would do most of the times does not coincide with what I actually end up doing... I don't blame the witness in the least, I honestly don't know what I'd have done in her shoes.

(Alternatively I am a terrible citizen, which is also a possibility.)

All MOO

Wow @SouthEnd, I’m sorry you’ve witnessed so many dangerous situations!

I’ve lived all my life in NYC, but fortunately I cannot recall ever needing to call 911 except in cases where an elderly person fell.

When I was a teenager, a man exposed himself to us but we didn’t have cell phones then. I was sexually assaulted on the subway twice when in my early 20s, but again no cell phone then.

Certainly there are crimes here but I just haven’t witnessed them, so though I believe I would call in a situation like SC was in, in reality I don’t know.

And obviously I’m not in a tiny town like SC, where I’d be terrified the suspect could find me.

I’m relieved that in the end she did show up to testify, and I don’t want to judge her for stalling at the time. She showed up when it counted, at trial.

JMO and JME