Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #202

[mrjitty]

The first morning update is on WISHTV

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 5 live blog

Wednesday is day 5 of testimonies in the Delphi Murders trial begins at the Carroll County courthouse. Follow our live blog for updates.

www.wishtv.com

The state’s first witness Wednesday morning was 35-year-old Sarah Carbaugh, a lifelong Delphi resident who lived near the trail. She told the jury she visited the trail every day with her dogs.

So the defence lied about SC's description in the Franks then. No wonder the Judge binned it without a hearing.

I said at the time I was sure they misrepresented her testimony and hid that fact in footnotes so the public would only get the conspiracy.

IMO

 

[JAY CLUCK]

I apologize if this has been mentioned multiple times…just thinking through. When BG pursued them down the hill, if he did start his physical attack somewhere below the bridge (possibly the holding of one at gun point to have the other remove clothing) and then was interrupted to which he made them move further and across the creek… does anyone know if the bridge was visible from the crime scene area? Just wondered if it was visible if there was a first location but moved to a place that wasn’t visible. Honestly just curious how far away they were from any potential witness or even LGs dad when he came looking.

JMO

I have not been there but I recall Defense Diaries saying he went and you could see the area they were found from platform 1. And I assume the rest of the bridge. Being midwestern, no leaves is a huge deal. It’s the difference between seeing 20 feet in July and an huge area feeling naked and exposed in winter, it’s all open.

 

[Argonaut]

Here are a few photos of one of my box cutters. This is a pro box cutter and I have several as I spent slightly more than a decade cutting boxes open when working as a retail clerk in my youth. It was not unusual for me to cut open more than 200 boxes per shift stocking shelves, and it can become rather handy with such experience. The stains are from rust. It sits by our woodstove for cutting up and burning boxes. We heat 100% with wood.

The Garvey box cutter is a pro tool and is more robust than the less expensive consumer like cutters. I would imagine CVS supplies similar box cutters to store stockers, etc.

I'm a lefty so the big knob is set up for me although the cutter is designed for right handed people as can be seen in the one photo where the blade exits the tool. The indention is for the thumb as it glides across the box top.

 

[Boxer]

I apologize if this has been mentioned multiple times…just thinking through. When BG pursued them down the hill, if he did start his physical attack somewhere below the bridge (possibly the holding of one at gun point to have the other remove clothing) and then was interrupted to which he made them move further and across the creek… does anyone know if the bridge was visible from the crime scene area? Just wondered if it was visible if there was a first location but moved to a place that wasn’t visible. Honestly just curious how far away they were from any potential witness or even LGs dad when he came looking.

JMO

The were around the bend on the east side of the bridge. Platform 1 area of bridge almost has a view of the CS area. GH has a drone flight video that clearly shows the line of sight from the bridge.

 

[twall]

Ironically, the defense seems to be the one perpetuating a WM3-type witch hunt here. Literally claiming there was a murder ritual in the woods with very little proof.

JMO
I knew someone would bring this up. I am only stating what has been presented to the jury so far. It's still up in the air as to whether they will hear about the subject of your post. I am trying to look at it from a jury's perspective as best as I can with the limited information that has been reported. Havent got to coroner yet. I hope he isn't shoddy. JMO

 

[mrjitty]

I think what the Prosecution are really doing at this point of the trial is recreating how they came to that timeline.

When you have multiple sightings that people reported, along with video footage of vehicles, that creates the timeline, and it is the timeline that is important.

That's why Allen jumped out to them as a suspect. Not what he looked like, but his own admitted timeline.

IMO, it is forest vs trees. If you just look at each tree and think - that's not an impressive tree, I'm not impressed, you are missing the point, which, the Prosecution hopes, is an impressive forest.

JMO

Agreed - they are ratcheting up the timeline and RA will be boxed in unless he can show he did not arrive at the trails at 1.30 pm - if he enters the trails and is the man the 3 juveniles saw, then he must be lying as there is no way he would not have seen the victims and SC - it's just not possible

 

[Web_Sleuth]

I have not been there but I recall Defense Diaries saying he went and you could see the area they were found from platform 1. And I assume the rest of the bridge. Being midwestern, no leaves is a huge deal. It’s the difference between seeing 20 feet in July and an huge area feeling naked and exposed in winter, it’s all open.

Wow. I guess with the bright pink shirt and tie dye shirt being somewhat concealed, there wasn’t anything “bright” that would have drawn the eye when searching.

 

[Boxer]

Runes thenselves look like random sticks.

 

[ClearAhead]

I agree, however it seems to me motive plays a big role in most trials. Eg, the Dan Markel/Pike County murder trials, it was critical to introduce evidence showing child custody issues. The Vallow/Daybell trial introduced tons of evidence showing the secret love affair, although that is not a crime. In Murdaughs case, testimony about his impending exposure for fraud served no apparent purpose in proving he committed the crime of murder. Yet it is introduced because, IMO, humans (unlike maybe AI) do not think completely abstractly, they need a story to make sense of the facts.

This is not a flaw, where the ideal human should become a pure fact fanatic. It's how humans have evolved to process information and therefore survive. BrandStorytelling BrandVoice: Human Beings Are Wired For Story: Here’s Why

ETA: Adults understand perfectly why kidnappers would force girls to undress, we don't need facts to know that.

JMO

I agree it’s definitely preferred that the prosecution offers a motive in theory but it would be impossible for the prosecution to prove motive BARD as it would often call for speculation.

https://www.cataldolawoffices.com/blog/2024/05/does-the-state-have-to-prove-motive-in-a-murder-trial/

Have you ever heard the phrase, “no motive, no crime?” It’s a popular phrase that sums up the idea that a prosecutor can’t prove a homicide case when they can’t establish a motive for the defendant to act.

It’s also untrue. While motive is very important in crime drama shows and movies, establishing motive is not required for a conviction.

 

[Boxer]

So, there definitely isn't a time of death?!?

The girls were found under 24 hours and yet no time of death could be confirmed or even estimated.

Im not sure what to think.

JMO MOO JMT

Think Baldwin celebrating to have something besides crime scene photos to exploit.

 

[Seattle1]

I get what you are saying but in my mind may is a long way from WAS. But I certainly see how multiple weapons works better for a defense trying to sell multiple perps.

Oh, I agree about stopping the defense nonsense in its tracks! Perhaps I'm left behind in believing in probable cause for the SW for defendant RA's residence to seize 8+ knives from his home, versus what I'm hearing from what sounds to me like an uncertain, forensic pathologist capable of revising his report from descriptions to include serrated blade or box cutter, without what I'd characterize as confidence or even clinical certainty in either choice! At this time, we have no idea how the final autopsy reads. Maybe I'm just looking for one professional here who is truly working only for the victims, whatever the results. JMO

11:45 a.m.: The doctor who performed girls’ autopsies testifies​

Dr. Roland Kohr, a forensic pathologist based out of Terre Haute, was the state’s 20th witness in the trial. Kohr is semi-retired, and served as the Vigo County coroner for many years. He performed autopsies on Libby German and Abby Williams.

Kohr explained to the jury the steps of an autopsy, which begins with being contacted by investigators and learning about the case, then later performing examinations of the bodies.

The first autopsy was performed on Abby. Kohr noted Abby’s clothing, any physical injuries, and performed a rape kit. He said that Abby had a 1-inch deep, 3-inch long incision wound on her neck. She also had a faint mark under her mouth, which Kohr said could be from duct tape or cloth. Abby showed no signs of blunt force trauma or restraint wounds. He said that though the rape kit showed no “overt injury patterns,” it does not mean that sexual contact didn’t occur.

Libby German’s autopsy was performed second. Kohr also noted her clothing, physical injuries, and performed a rape kit. The autopsy report said Libby had anywhere from three to five incision wounds on the right side of her neck, the largest being around 3.5 inches long. She also showed no signs of overt sexual trauma or defensive wounds.

Kohr estimated that the girls died approximately 41 hours before the autopsy.

Defense attorney Brad Rozzi began his cross examination and discussed Kohr’s deposition from February 2024. <modsnip: copyright>
MORE AT LINK…

WISHTV TRIAL BLOG

 

[Arkay]

Here are a few photos of one of my box cutters. This is a pro box cutter and I have several as I spent slightly more than a decade cutting boxes open when working as a retail clerk in my youth. It was not unusual for me to cut open more than 200 boxes per shift stocking shelves, and it can become rather handy with such experience. The stains are from rust. It sits by our woodstove for cutting up and burning boxes. We heat 100% with wood.

The Garvey box cutter is a pro tool and is more robust than the less expensive consumer like cutters. I would imagine CVS supplies similar box cutters to store stockers, etc.

I'm a lefty so the big knob is set up for me although the cutter is designed for right handed people as can be seen in the one photo where the blade exits the tool. The indention is for the thumb as it glides across the box top.

View attachment 540031

Thanks for sharing….no argument from me about whether a box cutter can do the job.

On 9/11 the hijackers used box cutters to slash the throats of the pilots, which allowed the terrorists to then fly the planes into the WTC. Of course prior to 9/11, box cutters were permitted in passengers’ belongings.

My opinion.

 

[Justice101]

I apologize if this has been mentioned multiple times…just thinking through. When BG pursued them down the hill, if he did start his physical attack somewhere below the bridge (possibly the holding of one at gun point to have the other remove clothing) and then was interrupted to which he made them move further and across the creek… does anyone know if the bridge was visible from the crime scene area? Just wondered if it was visible if there was a first location but moved to a place that wasn’t visible. Honestly just curious how far away they were from any potential witness or even LGs dad when he came looking.

JMO

The bridge would be very hard to see from the crime scene due to the fact that it is around the bend in the river and there is terrain in between that is high. JMO although I have never been there just have seen some photos.

 

[Bergmann]

I think this is a very engaged jury and they seem more than willing to ask questions. I don't think their heads are spinning at all.

I think they are listening, paying close attention and asking for clarification of things they have questions on. Perfect jury behavior.

JMO

That’s good to hear. We need to be able to accept the jury’s decision even if it goes against our preconceptions.

I don’t like post rationalised weaseling and excuses that assume the jury are ‘fooled’ or ‘tricked’.

 

[photographer4]

By most reports, she saw muddy bloody walking alone.

Then who was the girl in pink, "visibly stressed"? I don't believe the family aside DG had arrived by 4pm based on the quotes I posted which I took from the Susan Hendricks Down the Hill book (which I did in another post upthread).

 

[MiniMoo]

Think Baldwin celebrating to have something besides crime scene photos to exploit.

For me, it is an important part of this case whether or not it is in favour of the State or the Defense.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[ClearAhead]

I apologize if this has been mentioned multiple times…just thinking through. When BG pursued them down the hill, if he did start his physical attack somewhere below the bridge (possibly the holding of one at gun point to have the other remove clothing) and then was interrupted to which he made them move further and across the creek… does anyone know if the bridge was visible from the crime scene area? Just wondered if it was visible if there was a first location but moved to a place that wasn’t visible. Honestly just curious how far away they were from any potential witness or even LGs dad when he came looking.

JMO

Just my recollect, anyone feel free to correct me. Several times it’s been stated the crime scene was not visible from the bridge but it’s not clear if that was due to the distance, the trees, or the rugged terrain. The story goes that LG’s dad didn’t cross the bridge, he mostly walked the other way toward the Freedom bridge and waited where his car was parked for their return. But it’s certainly possibly BG heard him or others calling out. I haven’t heard of anyone claiming to be anywhere close to the crime scene area at the time of the murders although at one time it was mentioned there was a couple of ppl beneath the bridge. JMO

 

[WildHuncher]

Then who was the girl in pink, "visibly stressed"? I don't believe the family aside DG had arrived by 4pm based on the quotes I posted which I took from the Susan Hendricks Down the Hill book (which I did in another post upthread).

A bad penny that keeps coming back.

 

[photographer4]

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 5 live blog

Wednesday is day 5 of testimonies in the Delphi Murders trial begins at the Carroll County courthouse. Follow our live blog for updates.

www.wishtv.com

Does anyone happen to have any idea what type of CLOTH could possibly leave a mark like duct tape would leave? Genuinely asking.

 

[Melted]

@Niner

Tobin denied (at present)
Motion to intervene denied

https://x.com/Wienekelo/status/1849163080174809091

Wow