Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #202

[twall]

I apologize if this has been mentioned multiple times…just thinking through. When BG pursued them down the hill, if he did start his physical attack somewhere below the bridge (possibly the holding of one at gun point to have the other remove clothing) and then was interrupted to which he made them move further and across the creek… does anyone know if the bridge was visible from the crime scene area? Just wondered if it was visible if there was a first location but moved to a place that wasn’t visible. Honestly just curious how far away they were from any potential witness or even LGs dad when he came looking.

JMO

I've been there many times and it depends on the season. Also you can see fish in the creek from the bridge as long as the water is clear. JMO

 

[twall]

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 5 live blog

Wednesday is day 5 of testimonies in the Delphi Murders trial begins at the Carroll County courthouse. Follow our live blog for updates.

www.wishtv.com

View attachment 540039

Does anyone happen to have any idea what type of CLOTH could possibly leave a mark like duct tape would leave? Genuinely asking.

The one found in the creek?

 

[Vern]

But that has not been introduced into the trial.

Everybody is talking about tons of stuff that hasn't yet been introduced at the trial.

But both of which show up in the PCA for RA's arrest, so official documentation of such (and that which led to his identification as a suspect, grounds for the search warrant and then on to his arrest).

Ergo, not just rumours or insinuations.

PCA:
Dulin's Tip Narrative Details:

Allen's October 2022 Interview:

_Probable Cause Affidavit.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[Melted]

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 5 live blog

Wednesday is day 5 of testimonies in the Delphi Murders trial begins at the Carroll County courthouse. Follow our live blog for updates.

www.wishtv.com

View attachment 540039

Does anyone happen to have any idea what type of CLOTH could possibly leave a mark like duct tape would leave? Genuinely asking.

A type of cloth that could leave a faint mark similar to duct tape would be gaffer tape or fabric tape. Gaffer tape, often used in theater and film production, has a cloth-like texture and adhesive properties similar to duct tape but is designed to leave less residue. If applied and then removed, it could leave a faint mark or impression on surfaces, much like duct tape does.

JMO

Duct tape makes a lot more sense

 

[detectivewannab]

Think Baldwin celebrating to have something besides crime scene photos to exploit.

Give him enough rope he will hang himself. When convicted we don't want an appeal.

 

[photographer4]

The one found in the creek?

I did a word search on the article in my post using CTRL F - I didn't find the word creek so I'm not sure I understand what you mean here?

 

[MassGuy]

I am having deja vu of the West Memphis 3 trials. Sticks not being taken as evidence until after the scene was opened, portions and complete interviews missing, conflicting eyewitness statements, making the crime fit the evidence instead of the opposite. Next is false confessions. JMO

Should they have taken the sticks right away? Yes. Would it have helped catch the killer? Almost certainly not.

Some small town police department accidentally recording over a couple interviews that were also hand recorded? Not a big deal.

Witnesses not agreeing? Standard.

Every case I’ve followed has had some massive mistakes. Whether it be law enforcement not discovering a body right under their nose, missing obvious blood evidence and allowing residents to remain in a property for days after a murder (seen this multiple times), failure to follow up major leads right away, etc.

The major mistake here was not only the misfiling of that interview with Allen, but the failure to discover it until years had passed. That sent them on a wild goose chase, and likely allowed evidence to be lost to time.

That mistake, large as it was, does not mean that everything should be looked through that lens. This task force looked at countless suspects, and did their due diligence.

They encountered a crime that by its very nature, is the hardest to solve. It was committed by a stranger, occurred outdoors, no one actually saw it happen, and the killer left no DNA.

They were reliant upon witnesses who recognized the man they saw as BG, but could not aid in his identification.

They could develop a timeline, but not a name.

Until they saw something they should have seen all along, followed up, and were gifted the probable cause via Allen, they needed to finally help unmask BG.

I look at this and I of course see issues. I’ve seen them before, and I’ll see them again. Nothing raises this to the level of “Keystone Cops” though.

“Omg, they didn’t do a rape kit.”

“They lied about the video.”

“They didn’t take more photographs so now chain of custody is in doubt.”

“They didn’t see the bodies that night, so they must have been moved”.

“They needed someone to pin this on so they chose Allen.”

Naw.

 

[Melted]

Oh, I agree about stopping the defense nonsense in its tracks! Perhaps I'm left behind in believing in probable cause for the SW for defendant RA's residence to seize 8+ knives from his home, versus what I'm hearing from what sounds to me like an uncertain, forensic pathologist capable of revising his report from descriptions to include serrated blade or box cutter, without what I'd characterize as confidence or even clinical certainty in either choice! At this time, we have no idea how the final autopsy reads. Maybe I'm just looking for one professional here who is truly working only for the victims, whatever the results. JMO

11:45 a.m.: The doctor who performed girls’ autopsies testifies​

Dr. Roland Kohr, a forensic pathologist based out of Terre Haute, was the state’s 20th witness in the trial. Kohr is semi-retired, and served as the Vigo County coroner for many years. He performed autopsies on Libby German and Abby Williams.

Kohr explained to the jury the steps of an autopsy, which begins with being contacted by investigators and learning about the case, then later performing examinations of the bodies.

The first autopsy was performed on Abby. Kohr noted Abby’s clothing, any physical injuries, and performed a rape kit. He said that Abby had a 1-inch deep, 3-inch long incision wound on her neck. She also had a faint mark under her mouth, which Kohr said could be from duct tape or cloth. Abby showed no signs of blunt force trauma or restraint wounds. He said that though the rape kit showed no “overt injury patterns,” it does not mean that sexual contact didn’t occur.

Libby German’s autopsy was performed second. Kohr also noted her clothing, physical injuries, and performed a rape kit. The autopsy report said Libby had anywhere from three to five incision wounds on the right side of her neck, the largest being around 3.5 inches long. She also showed no signs of overt sexual trauma or defensive wounds.

Kohr estimated that the girls died approximately 41 hours before the autopsy.

Defense attorney Brad Rozzi began his cross examination and discussed Kohr’s deposition from February 2024. Kohr’s deposition included information about the attack and speculations on the girls’ reactions after being attacked. He said in the February deposition that he couldn’t determine if the killer was left or right handed and that a serrated knife may have been used.

Kohr then said after his deposition that a box cutter may have been used instead of a serrated knife, but did not inform the defense. News 8’s Kyla Russell said Rozzi showed upset in the courtroom after Kohr admitted his uncertainty about the weapon used and did not file a new report.

WISHTV TRIAL BLOG

The lack of defensive wounds added now with the faint mark of possible duct tape on the mouth as well as the fibers pulled off of the bodies leads me to believe they were tied up.

JMO

 

[photographer4]

A type of cloth that could leave a faint mark similar to duct tape would be gaffer tape or fabric tape. Gaffer tape, often used in theater and film production, has a cloth-like texture and adhesive properties similar to duct tape but is designed to leave less residue. If applied and then removed, it could leave a faint mark or impression on surfaces, much like duct tape does.

JMO

Duct tape makes a lot more sense

Wow! I had no idea this was a thing! Ty for helping me to see a possibility I would otherwise never have considered!

 

[Melted]

Then who was the girl in pink, "visibly stressed"? I don't believe the family aside DG had arrived by 4pm based on the quotes I posted which I took from the Susan Hendricks Down the Hill book (which I did in another post upthread).

Tara German was with Derrick before 4

 

[MassGuy]

The lack of defensive wounds added now with the faint mark of possible duct tape on the mouth as well as the fibers pulled off of the bodies leads me to believe they were tied up.

JMO

If they were tied up their bodies would almost certainly show obvious signs of that.

A faint mark on her mouth but nothing else, makes that incredibly unlikely.

 

[Cedars]

Ironically, the defense seems to be the one perpetuating a WM3-type witch hunt here. Literally claiming there was a murder ritual in the woods with very little proof.

JMO

Exactly - trying to sow satanic panic!

 

[Jade]

There’s been plenty of discussion around here about false confessions due to improper imprisonment conditions of RA. I, alone, regardless of anyone’s opinion on the why or otherwise, have concerns about the conditions and treatment he experienced in IDOC. While his attorneys are not putting forth his competency, nor his sanity, as a defense strategy, I believe they will be speaking on a time during his lengthy imprisonment when his mental health began failing. I do have questions and concerns, and my genuine hope is that as this trial continues, they will be answered and resolved. As stated before, I understand that this reporter’s rendering is only one of the many confessions that the jury will be presented with for consideration. My sincere hope is that they are more convincing than this one. IMO

Whether an item or idea is “fair” for discussion on this case seems to be subjective to the reader. I’m looking at items directly from MSM, and commenting on what stands out to me, and what I feel comfortable discussing. For example, I scroll & roll on any post that looks like it’s guessing about & lingering on possibilities of SA. That’s just me. I already have my mind made up about what it means when someone is forced to undress, and murdered directly after. I don’t need to read ppl’s analysis of that, nor anyone’s imaginings that are worse than what is already known.

FWIW, I am able to imagine RA as the BG and the murderer. When I do that, his actions after the murders- beginning with tipping himself in- paint a picture of either a sick cat & mouse game, or a guilty conscience where he’s actively hoping LE can put the puzzle pieces together. As for proving his guilt BARD with admissable evidence, I am uncomfortable with the way things are looking so far. I do not want anyone responsible for the deaths of Abby & Libby skating on technicalities.

Jmo

BBM


Competency is not a strategy.

That would violate RA’s Constitutional protections.

Under the Sixth Amendment of the Constitution everyone that is charged with a crime has the right to a fair trial.

For a trial to be considered “fair” the defendant must be competent.

https://constitution.congress.gov/b...is whether the,of the proceedings against him.

Indeed it pained me to slightly defend his confession note but really it’s kind of silly, imo, to be picking it apart for sentence structure and style when the content of what he is expressing in the note is his, Richard Allen’s, words set down in a desire to be heard.


all imo

 

[Iphi]

What if BG forced Abby to put on libby‘s jeans and sweatshirt under the bridge and carry the rest of libby’s clothes across the creek, using it as a control mechanism. One won’t run because she is naked, the other won’t run off with her friends clothes, leaving her friend behind naked. It’s a diabolically clever way to control both girls.
Also leaves BG hands free to handle a knife AND a gun.
IMO

 

[dalsglen]

I've been there many times and it depends on the season. Also you can see fish in the creek from the bridge as long as the water is clear. JMO

Aye alright Kathy I AM absolutely joking here, just a wee bit of levity after some awful testimony.

do we know what time the son checked the parents property? Was his car the interruption?

 

[MassGuy]

What if BG forced Abby to put on libby‘s jeans and sweatshirt under the bridge and carry the rest of libby’s clothes across the creek, using it as a control mechanism. One won’t run because she is naked, the other won’t run off with her friends clothes, leaving her friend behind naked. It’s a diabolically clever way to control both girls.
IMO

I think the gun alone accomplishes the same.

 

[twall]

I did a word search on the article in my post using CTRL F - I didn't find the word creek so I'm not sure I understand what you mean here?

There was a cloth found in the creek with Libbys shirt. Has never been mentioned before trial and many thought it was an undergarment.

 

[photographer4]

Tara German was with Derrick before 4

I"m only quoting the book - that is what the book says. But if she was with DG before 4pm... did she happen to be wearing pink that day?

 

[SouthEnd]

If they were tied up their bodies would almost certainly show obvious signs of that.

A faint mark on her mouth but nothing else, makes that incredibly unlikely.

100%. If they were tied, especially using some kind of tape, there would have been plenty of residue left behind and marks on the bodies. MOO

 

[Melted]

I"m only quoting the book - that is what the book says. But if she was with DG before 4pm... did she happen to be wearing pink that day?

I’m not sure what she was wearing but I know her and DG were hanging out in the car for a while