Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #205

[BUF]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1850946689923997896

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Looks like they got a new courtroom sketch artist…good

 

[susane7]

So the old statement of (paraphrased) of "we have DNA, it's just not what you think" must have referred to the hair that was family DNA.

Probably. Honestly, I think sometimes in this case the investigators tried to "play games" with the killer. They wanted the killer would think they had his DNA.

I thought it was no usable DNA because if it was the case, the crime would be solved earlier. But the "NO DNA connecting RA to the crime scene" that people who think RA is innocent was saying is really "NO DNA that connecting the killer to the crime scene", so means nothing in terms of his guilt or innocence. Abby and Libby were still murdered and the killer didn't leave usable DNA I am sure the state would prefer to have DNA but as pointed in those threads by another members, the P went to the court with the evidence that they have, not the evidence that they want.

 

[MassGuy]

That’s shocking to me. They don’t have RA dna or anyone’s dna. Killers everywhere will study this to figure out how the killer did this. Moo.

It’s an outdoor crime scene. Unless he cut himself or committed a sex act, he was probably in the clear. He didn’t do anything special.

 

[photographer4]

JMO, the LE mistakes will be outweighed by the dishonesty and trickery of the DT.

I think so if it was honest mistakes. But some are just plain ridiculous. Leaving the sticks the killer placed over the kids is not a small error imo. Moo.

 

[BUF]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1850947720153825603

I read last week that RA’s stepfather was heard snoring in court….but it was the DM so you have to take with a grain of salt.

 

[KalmazooSleuth]

Looks like they got a new courtroom sketch artist…good

Better Artist now photos don't look like a 5th grader drew them.

 

[tlcya]

That’s shocking to me. They don’t have RA dna or anyone’s dna. Killers everywhere will study this to figure out how the killer did this. Moo.

I found this interesting. It is from 2005 but highlights that less than 10% of attackers in violent crimes leaves DNA. - DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OVERSIGHT: FUNDING FORENSIC SCIENCES--DNA AND BEYOND

 

[girlhasnoname]

Think about how brazen that is

Not more brazen than murdering 2 teenage bffs on a random out of school Monday. I actually think for RA it is probably common for him dispose of 'things' in the CVS dumpster.

JMO

 

[Amber29]

I haven’t really seen it mentioned but I’m curious if the phone got wet when they were crossing the creek and that’s what caused it to start kind of losing signal/powering down features. IMO it’s plausible that it was “drying out” the rest of the day and slowing gaining functions like reconnecting to the tower at 4:33am, it was likely never off.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Rez125 said:

“I'm saying the entire video has been played with. The BG is much further away from where the girls were when AW was seen running at the end of the bridge. Seconds later is when the audio that's been described as "down the hill" was "heard".

How did he get across the bridge so quickly to catch up to them?

Did he sprint across it? All I've heard is it's a trecherous bridge and you've gotta look down when moving across it.”

I’m just wondering how you know this?
The video has never been played for the public.

Edit: bolded quote

 

[AugustWest]

Looks like they got a new courtroom sketch artist…good

What do you have against Charles Schultz?

 

[steeltowngirl]

I think so if it was honest mistakes. But some are just plain ridiculous. Leaving the sticks the killer placed over the kids is not a small error imo. Moo.

LE made mistakes. They have been open about it. But leaving the sticks was not a mistake. It was a choice.

Datzman denied it was a mistake not to take the sticks into evidence but conceded that he returned on March 3 — over two weeks later — to collect the same items at the crime scene on the orders of a higher-up at ISP. He used photos taken the day of Feb. 14 to ensure he collected the same sticks.

"We had looked the sticks over and we saw no blood or anything on them," Datzman said, noting also that the sticks were rough and crumbly. "So in all of our experience, we've never gotten any DNA off of such a surface as this. We didn't believe they were of evidentiary value."

Crime scene investigators challenged over sticks, unspent round evidence

Lead attorney Andrew Baldwin flatly asserted it was a mistake not to immediately take into evidence the sticks that were strewn across the girls' bodies.

www.indystar.com

 

[WildHuncher]

I found this intesting. It is rom 2005 but highlights that less than 10% of attackers in violent crimes leaves DNA. - DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OVERSIGHT: FUNDING FORENSIC SCIENCES--DNA AND BEYOND

I would guess awareness of DNA as a way to get caught has only increased between 2005 and 2017. All those CSI / NCIS dramas.

 

[arielilane]

@MaxLewisTV

Delphi Murders Trial Day 9 Lunch Update
-Up on the stand today is Stacy Bozinovski
-She is an forensic scientist and DNA analyst at the Indiana State Police Lab
-She went through all the swabs and things tested for DNA in the case

https://twitter.com/x/status/1850947709676470502

-Swabs from the girls indicated possible semen but no semen detected
-Male DNA found on some swabs
-However, the analyst testifed that finding male DNA on some of the areas swabbed was "not necessarily an unusual result"


-We learned that a mysterious hair found in Abby's hand turned out to be from Libby's sister Kelsi
-The cartridge found between the girls' bodies was pulled out in court for the first time
-Analyst said it appeared slightly dirty


-She testified that cartridges are hard to get DNA from because they're so small
-DNA on cartridge was "insufficient for further analysis"
-They went through all the clothing items of the girls and blood spots at the crime scene


-Some partial profiles found, but not enough to compare
-During a re-test, lab thought they found a DNA profile of an unknown male
-Entered it in to CODIS
-Turned out be a lab employee
-Analyst testified reminder was sent out after that about wearing protective equipment


-Some hairs from the scene were sent to FBI
-FBI concluded 3 hairs were not consistent with Abby and Libby
-There are some new technologies that could test hairs without a root
-However, lab didn't do that because success rates are low and testing would destroy the sample


-James Luttrell asked if they found Richard Allen's DNA in any of the items.
The answer was no
-They didn't find a male DNA profile suitable for comparison
-That was end of direct examination which took the entire morning


-At the end, Judge Gull scolded people for sleeping in the courtroom
-She said "I don't conduct court in your bedroom. I would appreciate you not sleeping in my courtroom."
-Court recessed for lunch-Cross-examination begins this afternoon.

Also, we have a new sketch artist this week. Here's a very good drawing of Richard Allen as he sits at the defense table next to his defense attorney Andrew Baldwin. Glasses perched on his head as they have been the whole trial.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Glad to see the testimony from the DNA expert and put that hair to rest (hopefully..). As many of us suspected, there isn't usable DNA in this case. The killer managed to commit the crime without leaving usable DNA.

It happens despite our (me included) desperate need to have it. I can name 3 cases right off the top of my head where no physical DNA was found: Morphew, Murdaugh, Redwine none had DNA linking them to the victims, but 2 of those were found guilty, just waiting on a retrial for the other.

It seems easier to accomplish when it's a killing done outside of the home, which makes sense.

JMO

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1850950495419986061

 

[BUF]

Also, we have a new sketch artist this week. Here's a very good drawing of Richard Allen as he sits at the defense table next to his defense attorney Andrew Baldwin. Glasses perched on his head as they have been the whole trial.

Don’t we usually see defendants showing up with glasses at trial?
I guess RA’a glasses are just a prop as they are always described as perched on his head.

 

[Salah11]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1850946689923997896

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Why does it look like he is wearing a Hawaii shirt on a deckchair with sunglassss?

 

[Bergmann]

Not just the crime scene though. To have not found DNA of any kind linking the girl to a suspect's car/ home/ belongings is equally worrying, unless that is yet to be covered.

JMO

 

[justtrish]

IIRC Instructions to the Jury the first day was they’re allowed to take notes but not discuss the trial amongst themselves until deliberation, after the trial has ended.

This would be the hardest part for me. They are hearing all this stuff that has to be so hard to digest. We have all heard about this case for years and discussed ever detail over and over and then we still need to discuss more when the reports start coming in from each day. I can't imagine not being able to get out all the things that have to be stirring in their minds. I would want/need to talk about it.