Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #208

[Tricia]

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.

Richard Allen has been arrested and charged with the murders of Abby and Libby

ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

PICTURES OF ABBY AND LIBBY
Link to post with all threads 1 - 98 (Courtesy of margarita25)
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Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video
Hidden True Crime
Lawyer Lee
Grayhuze youtube channel
Murder sheet YouTube

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

NOTE - per Tricia and Sillybilly’s 5.28.2021 post here, JBC as a poi is now open for discussion in the Delphi thread.

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Tricia]

A consolidation of ADMIN & MOD notes (edited November 24, 2022):

- Members are allowed to discuss Richard Allen's voice as heard on the Gray Hughes podcast. Members may NOT link directly to RA's wife’s social media accounts.

- Speculation about RA’s possible involvement in other cases belongs in the OTHER CASES thread.

- Speculation that is not based on known fact is not allowed.

- Please use initials only for anyone other than victims or perps.

- If you have questions about rules or moderation, please do not ask them on the thread. Just jump off any post to use the Report feature to ask and a Mod or Admin will respond as soon as possible.

- Rumors are not allowed. If you can't link information to Websleuths approved sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

- Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. A thread specific exception may be made by Tricia or an Admin depending on geographical location in relation a crime.

- Photo alterations or side-by-side comparisons of unrelated pictures are not allowed.

 

[Tricia]

ADMIN NOTE:

Sorry folks, but statement analysis, body language analysis, amateur handwriting analysis is not allowed unless sourced to a credentialed, forensic specialist involved in the case under discussion.

This discussion is dedicated to Abby and Libby. Posts that do not relate directly to their case are off topic and such posts get removed. If you wish to discuss personal matters, please do so with your WS friends through PM or in the basement.

Also, the presumption of innocence is part and parcel of the judicial process. It does not apply to the general public who are entitled to express their opinion. Members are not here to be lectured or chastised by others for expressing their personal opinions. If you have an issue, use the Report feature and let Mods or Admins determine what is or is not okay to post.

Thanks.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator

Click here for The Rules

 

[Niner]

Wednesday, October 30th:
*Trial continues (Day 11) (@ 9am ET) – IN – Abigail Joyce Williams (13) & Liberty Rose Lynn German (14) (Missing Feb. 13, 2017, found killed Feb. 14, 2017, after walking on a local hiking trail & were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the Monon High Bridge Trail, Delphi) – *Richard “Ricky/Rick” Matthew Allen (44 @ time of crime/50/now 52) arrested & booked (10/26/22) into the Carroll County Jail & charged & arraigned (10/28/22) with 2 counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims. Plead not guilty. Held without bond.
Amended charges (1/18/24/granted 3/18/24): 2 counts of felony murder (knowingly & intentionally), 2 counts of murder (while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims). Transferred to White County jail from Carroll County for security reasons. And was transferred (11/2/22) to IN. DOC at Westville Correctional Facility at a more secure facility. Was awaiting transfer to Westville Correctional Facility but Judge Gull denied move (6/15/23). She plans to take the arguments under advisement & will make a ruling on whether or not he will be moved out of Westville at a later date. Judge Gull denied move (7/5/23). On 12/6/23 Allen was transferred from Westville to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility (long term segregation). Allen was booked (5/6/24) into the Allen County Jail [for hearing on 5/7/24]. Allen back (5/7/24) to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility. Judge Gull granted transfer of custody to the Carroll County Sheriff [instead of IDOC] but will be held in Cass County jail until trial [8/1/24]. Carroll County
Trial began with jury selection on 10/14/24 & ended 10/15/24.
Trial began on 10/18/24. Mondays thru Fridays from 9am to 6pm. Saturdays from 9am to noon.
*12 jurors (7 women & 5 men) & 4 alternates [3 women & 1 man]. One alternate was dismissed for a family emergency. 3 Alternates left (3 women). Jury is sequestered.
Allen County Judge Frances C. Gull presiding. Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland & Special Prosecutor James David Luttrull, Jr.
Andrew Baldwin & Bradley Rozzi are Allen’s public appointed attorneys & added Jennifer Auger [addressing the circumstances surrounding digital forensics].
Charges, case & court info from 4/19/21 thru 10/11/24 & Jury Selection Day 1-2 (10/14-10/15/24) & thru 10/16/24 & Trial Day 1-9 (10/18-10/28/24) reference post #4 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...hi-murders-richard-allen-arrested-207.727485/
10/29/24 Docket update: Motion For Transport Order. Motion for Transport of IDOC Inmate [Inmate Jesse L. James] filed by Allen. See post #466, page 24, thread 206 to link.
10/29/24 Tuesday, Trial Day 10: The State enters into evidence two video interviews with Allen, from October 13 & 26, 2022. Judge Gull tells the jury that parts are redacted, as they do not pertain to the investigation. The judge allows both videos, one with Prosecutor’s Office investigator Steve Mullins & Sheriff Tony Liggett [Oct. 13] & the other with ISP Lt. Jerry Holeman [Oct. 26]. The State plays the October 13 video first. Mullin & Liggett explain in the video why they are talking to Allen, they read him his rights & tell him he can leave at any time. Allen says he understands. After a recess the jury is shown a video of an interview from Oct. 26, 2022. In the video, Holeman is interviewing Allen. He tells Allen what they took from the house & what is being tested. He tells Allen they took swabs from a lot of the items.
State witnesses: Former Westville prison warden John Galipeau. The state’s next witnesses were Westville officers who observed Allen while he was on suicide watch. Ethan Drang [Suicide watch companion]. Officer Michael Clemons. Officer Smith. Officer Michael Roberts. Officer Brandon Fisher.
For more info see post #225 (Day 10 blog) here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ers-richard-allen-arrested-206.727375/page-12
Trial continues on Wednesday, 10/30/24 @ 9am.

 

[Melted]

Apparently I was too subtle before so I will be more specific.

The fact that there weren't obvious signs of SA on either victim's body doesn't mean that they weren't sexually assaulted.

There are forms of sexual assault that will leave no signs afterward.

Therefore I think it is entirely possible that Abby and Libby were sexually assaulted in some way.

There are also many documented cases where sexually motivated killers are brought to ejaculation purely through the act of stabbing or cutting the victims and watching their suffering.

 

[photographer4]

This crime scene drawing tells the bloody story that Libby "fought like hell".

Numbering is speculation.
Yellow = Abby
Red = Libby

View attachment 541931

This is not from being dragged post mortem? Not moo. I have missed more than I thought so asking.

 

[Han]

This is the view from the top of the bridge looking down the hill. That road you see is the road N625W that leads to the Weber property.

View attachment 541904

If you go straight across that road, it leads through more woods and to the creek. Articles of the girls' clothing were found in the creek. Some were closer to the Down the Hill side of the creek and some were closer to the discovery side of the creek.

I placed a small x where "BG" forced the girls' down the hill. The arrow shows their approximate direction of travel after RA says he got interrupted by Weber returning home.

The big X is the approximate area where the girls' were discovered.

View attachment 541920

Amazing, startling really!

 

[otto]

We came up with very similar end results.

Map is my opinion of what happened, at what location, at what time, based on my understanding of the facts up to this point in time.

View attachment 541933

Thank you! We can see the elevation just before they stopped moving on the North side of the creek, maybe 5 minutes after the white van arrived home.

 

[Teche]

@MaxLewisTV

Delphi Murders Trial Day 11 Afternoon Highlights:

We picked back up with Defense Attorney Brad Rozzi's cross examination of Dr. Monica Wala who was the psychologist at Westville Correctional Facility where Allen was held in solitary confinement for more than a year


-Rozzi asked Dr. Wala about the clothing Allen was forced to wear while on suicide watch which was similar to a Kimono and apparently referred to as a "flintstone gown"
-Dr. Wala testified that the area where she and Allen had their sessions was not a therapeutic setting


-It was revealed that Mr. Allen was institutionalized sometime in 2019

What type of institution was RA sent to? Mental Health facility? Did he have a diagnosis and a treatment plan?

 

[sunshineray]

It would have to be shown where he was located to have seen it as that terrain isn't what it seems - did he see the colour, the driver, model, size, distance.

Also, this would have been an opportunity for either girl to scream, yell out or escape - surely they would have heard it too.

Is this something he guessed, was spoon fed to him or is it his own memory?

For me, it all depends on the context.

It's pretty simple, you may be overthinking it?

Libby's video starts at around 2:13pm (if someone has the seconds TIA) 43 seconds later the girls were ordered, "Guys, down the hill" at GUNPOINT. They all went down the hill into the woods there.

BW drives down his driveway in a WHITE VAN at around 2:30, taking him right by the DTH area where RA brought the girls a few minutes before.

RA says he was interrupted in his endeavor to assault the girls by a WHITE VAN driving down that same driveway.

Simple, MO

 

[shonyakay]

Helicopter footage from February 14, 2017 also shows the approximate location of where the girls' were found. Around the 18 minute time mark. The police helicopter is flying over that particular area.

 

[AugustWest]

Post in thread 'Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #207'

Oct 31, 2024

This information is deceiving because it illustrates the inverse of what it should, which was pointed out today. RA could own the only 2016 Black Ford Focus SE in Carroll County, but the important identification is the car in the HH video. The witness could not state that the car in the HH video was a 2016 Black Ford Focus SE. I don't remember the exact number but there was around 50 or 60 (maybe 68?) Ford Focus with the same body style in the "surrounding counties."

….but did any admit to being at MHB that day other than 1 of those owners? Where do you stop expanding the search...

• INfisherman

• 
• 

@INfisherman I appreciate the kind words! I pulled a copy of your post over as I couldn't reply before the thread flip.

Normally, when I answer around here, it is about a very specific point. I'm not making any other conclusions about what I pointed out, just attempting show the fallacy in the way the data was interpreted. That very well could be RA's car in the video. I'm simply saying the information was misleading.

I also don't disagree with cumulative information leading to an inference of truth. Our legal system, however, requires guilt beyond all reasonable doubt. This is a very high standard. Reasonable alternatives should not, in my opinion, be dismissed lightly.

 

[sunshineray]

What type of institution was RA sent to? Mental Health facility? Did he have a diagnosis and a treatment plan?

His lawyers never had him evaluated, so just treating outbursts of self harm.

 

[Teche]

His lawyers never had him evaluated, so just treating outbursts of self harm.

I thought RA went to an institution in 2019 which was prior to his arrest. Maybe it was a misprint.

 

[INfisherman]

Post in thread 'Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #207'

Oct 31, 2024

This information is deceiving because it illustrates the inverse of what it should, which was pointed out today. RA could own the only 2016 Black Ford Focus SE in Carroll County, but the important identification is the car in the HH video. The witness could not state that the car in the HH video was a 2016 Black Ford Focus SE. I don't remember the exact number but there was around 50 or 60 (maybe 68?) Ford Focus with the same body style in the "surrounding counties."

….but did any admit to being at MHB that day other than 1 of those owners? Where do you stop expanding the search...

• INfisherman

• 
• 

@INfisherman I appreciate the kind words! I pulled a copy of your post over as I couldn't reply before the thread flip.

Normally, when I answer around here, it is about a very specific point. I'm not making any other conclusions about what I pointed out, just attempting show the fallacy in the way the data was interpreted. That very well could be RA's car in the video. I'm simply saying the information was misleading.

I also don't disagree with cumulative information leading to an inference of truth. Our legal system, however, requires guilt beyond all reasonable doubt. This is a very high standard. Reasonable alternatives should not, in my opinion, be dismissed lightly.

I understood. I was simply taking it to an extreme as an example to which it could be taken. I would imagine things like that could be what makes a case like this difficult. The number of coincidences that could be just that, coincidences. At some point though, little pieces start to crumble & usually the light shines through.

P seemed very shaky at first but have brought a pretty good case given with what they had to work IMO, but I’m not a legal expert by any means & the trial is far from over.

JMO

 

[AugustWest]

I understood. I was simply taking it to an extreme as an example to which it could be taken. I would imagine things like that could be what makes a case like this difficult. The number of coincidences that could be just that, coincidences. At some point though, little pieces start to crumble & usually the light shines through.

P seemed very shaky at first but have brought a pretty good case given with what they had to work IMO, but I’m not a legal expert by any means & the trial is far from over.

JMO

In my opinion, all the attorneys on both sides have done an excellent job thus far. There is a lot of good lawyering going on in the trial that gets missed by most. Even more so when we have to rely on second-hand accounts for our understanding. This trial would have been an interesting one to watch rather than read about.

 

[Arkay]

I say this with all sincerity and I hope it is received that way.

There seem to be a number of our fellow posters who have long maintained that RA was innocent, but after the new revelations have come to believe he is indeed the murderer. Tricia’s poll supports this and several posters have explained their change in reasoning as the newest evidence (RA’s confessions, his seeing a white van, his car being the match for the car that was at the bridge) have come to light.

None of us, I’m sure, are here because we want to be “right.”

We ALL, I believe, are here because we desperately want Abby’s and Libby’s killer to be found guilty, which would be the only speck of justice they can have anymore.

We ALL, I believe, want the German and Williams families to have whatever relief a guilty verdict will afford them.

It is a challenge when any of us are presented with facts, not rumor or innuendo, but solid evidence that forces us to change our way of thinking.

None of us know how the jury will decide on its verdict, a verdict I must accept, especially as the jurors seem to be very engaged in the process.

We will all find out together when the time comes for the jury’s finding, but I just wanted to express my admiration for the open minds that are apparent here.

I believe I long ago had an open mind, unsure about BG’s identity, until the day that RA was brought into the light.

It is the evidence that tells the true narrative and the jury’s burden to come to a unanimous verdict.

Time will tell.

JMO and appreciation for my fellow WSers.

 

[technicallymissing]

Post in thread 'Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #207'

Oct 31, 2024

Baldwin then suggested that BW didn't drive straight home and that he worked on some ATMs. BW said he worked on the ATMs in the morning and was vehement about driving directly there. Baldwin ended his cross and gave him a subpoena.

Just finished watching my Yankees lose the World Series in ghastly fashion, so I am way behind and need to catch up.

Therefore I’m sure this has been commented on quite a bit, but I cannot refrain—-Baldwin slapped BW with a subpoena right there in court????

It seems to me that if Baldwin has no answer for BW’s testimony, he devolves straight into...

• Arkay

• 
• 
• 

Theatrical is a very diplomatic way of putting it imo. As an older sister to a younger sister myself I was particularly aghast at the defense essentially suggesting Kelsi German had something to do with her little sister's murder when they made a huge deal about her hair being found in Abby's hand... despite the fact that Abby had just come from Kelsi's car, had spent the night at the German/Patty house, was literally wearing Libby's sweatshirt (stored/laundered/etc with Kelsi's clothes) when she died. That was a really dirty move against a grieving young woman who has remained incredibly strong while suffering a horrific loss, all for a little shock factor that they KNEW would have absolutely no payoff. My personal opinion of course. (Also.. Go Dodgers! Sorry Volpe was amazing these past two nights though even with tonight's error)

 

[JAY CLUCK]

So today clears up where RA got the info. Discovery plus a nosy doc. White van goes all the way back to when BW was investigated. Why did he change his timeline last minute and that rhymes with the ME changing his findings last minute with a “”sudden revelation”” Super interested in what’s behind the subpoena AB slapped on BW. Last minute of states case and defense has shown it has a lot of cards up its sleeves. Going to be a very exciting case in chief for the defense. Right now I’d say it’s a quarter resting on its edge and defense has yet to blow.what do they have in their lungs? Seems like a lot but we also thought the P had something, anything, more than the timeline drain we’ve been circling for two years. What a wild case.

 

[sunshineray]

I thought RA went to an institution in 2019 which was prior to his arrest. Maybe it was a misprint.

Yes he had depression, anxiety plus a dependency problem prior to arrest.

His wife KA told investigators, RA wouldn't let her go help with the search for the girls and after the murders his depression got worse.

JG ruled after being informed by both sides of the particulars that RA's anxiety and depression were not severe enough to affect him being able to freely confess. She read the incarceration facility's mental health personel's reports. There were no independent of that facility doctors that evaluated RA. I guess his attorneys didn't think it necessary?