Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #210

[EllaMinnowP]

Thanks. So for clarity, EF did not confess to murder, correct?
EF told his sister crime scene info. The sister told Murphy what she says EF told her. Murphy testified to what he heard from the sister, who heard it from EF.

I offered a link to an approved source which references a topic that (AFAIK) has been declared taboo for discussion here at WS, but I felt may have been what @minor4th was referring to.

Since Judge Gull has shut down everything related to this line of investigation, I am not letting my awareness of it affect my opinion of the evidence currently being presented in the trial of RA.

Personally, though, I felt EF’s query about whether he’d be in trouble if his spit was found on the girls was much more interesting than what his sister(s) reported, but especially in light of it; whether or not he claims to have personally committed the murder.

My main goal in providing the link was to find out if it’s what one of our verified attorneys was referring to, and I was actually hoping for some clarification about how/why previous admissions/confessions should be fair game for the defense, if the lead was investigated, and cleared.
MOO

I will say that in fairness, RA was apparently “cleared” at one time, too, so I understand why anyone might have questions about why his cleared file was fair game, but cleared files pertaining to other lines of investigation are perceived as a done deal.
IMO

 

[Crazyjster]

Didn't the defense decide not to get RA evaluated???

I must have missed something can you please elaborate...

What do you mean get RA "evaluated?"? He was placed on a unit for SW..from basically the time of arrest. To get that placement he would have had to be EVALUATED, they do not just put people on SW.

 

[Vern]

The cemetery is not too far above the crime scene on the North side, like 5 minutes going down, and it is steep.

Am sure vehicles would be heard either side as where the ravine starts at the top of the cemetery you can drive by it and possibly even park quite close to it if parking is allowed.

As for a van being on the South side on February 13th, 2017, when the girls were taken and unalived - my first time hearing about it as well.

JMO MOO JMT

One cannot see up to the cemetary from the crime scene nor from the South side of the bridge or under it. Surely he didn't get spooked by a vehicle on the north side and force the girls across the creek towards that interuption. He potentially could have heard a vehicle driving by up there by the cemetary, but certainly could not have identified it as a "white van" had he not seen it; which he could not as the phone shows the girls, and their killer, were still down in the valley by the creek. IMO.

And ref your bold: exactly. That's a deet that was new to all.

 

[MassGuy]

Probably everyone in Delphi made searches about the Delphi murders updates.

Exactly. Which is precisely why he shouldn’t have been ignorant about where that photo of BG came from.

…”if that photo is taken with the girls’ phone, that is not me.”

 

[minor4th]

Can you provide an approved source to reference a third party who made a confession or incriminating statements? TIA

Kevin Murphy, a former Indiana State Police detective who looked into the Odinism angle, testified that the early consensus among investigators was that two to six people were involved in the killings. Murphy, who was involved in the case from 2017 to 2019, focused his investigation mainly on another alleged Odinist whose sister told investigators that he'd confessed to the crime.

Elvis Fields' sister, Murphy testified, provided "very specific" information that only someone who was at the crime scene would've known. Murphy also recalled a recorded phone call between Fields and his sister, during which she blurted out, "Elvis, why did you kill those girls?"

Fields denied killing the girls when interviewed by detectives. But Murphy recounted an interaction that caught him off guard: After Fields consented to a swab test, he asked Murphy if he would get in trouble if his spit was found on the girls.

Delphi killings are 'textbook' examples of ritualistic murder, defense expert testifies

Prosecutor pushes back on new testimony during the third day of hearings on pretrial motions in Richard Allen's murder case

eu.indystar.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

I offered a link to an approved source which references a topic that (AFAIK) has been declared taboo for discussion here at WS, but I felt may have been what @minor4th was referring to.

Since Judge Gull has shut down everything related to this line of investigation, I am not letting my awareness of it affect my opinion of the evidence currently being presented in the trial of RA.

Personally, though, I felt EF’s query about whether he’d be in trouble if his spit was found on the girls was much more interesting than what his sister(s) reported, but especially in light of it; whether or not he claims to have personally committed the murder.

My main goal in providing the link was to find out if it’s what one of our verified attorneys was referring to, and I was actually hoping for some clarification about how/why previous admissions/confessions should be fair game for the defense, if the lead was investigated, and cleared.
MOO

I will say that in fairness, RA was apparently “cleared” at one time, too, so I understand why anyone might have questions about why his cleared file was fair game, but cleared files pertaining to other lines of investigation are perceived as a done deal.
IMO

Thank you, I appreciate you for locating the reference. I hope we hear back from the OP attorney.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I must have missed something can you please elaborate...

What do you mean get RA "evaluated?"? He was placed on a unit for SW..from basically the time of arrest. To get that placement he would have had to be EVALUATED, they do not just put people on SW.

They made a quick trip to Reception Diagnostic in Hendricks Co.
Moo

 

[Inthedetails]

We don't, but I'm certain Delphi was a hotbed of rumour for five years. How could he be sure he was picking a rumour with substance, if he picked the van story? He couldn't.

MOO

True! Why not throw in the Flora house fire or pedophile ring or catfishing or RL property? He just happened to pick a rumor that matched the crime to the exact moments?

jmo

 

[minor4th]

So you did get to read the transcripts. That's good, I was confused by your stating there were no transcripts or records. These things can really get confusing.

I did not say there were no transcripts. I said there was not a full transcript.

 

[Boxer]

And his slouching shoulders match with RG.

To me it has always been not just body type, height and weight but the the under brow glare.
I profiled for myself either a shift work machinist printer type or a retail supervisor.
I was focussed on the idea BG was a retail supervisor of an offroad tires or autoparts type store in an adjacent town.

The idea that all the deputies and sheriff have been picking up their meds and chewing gum from this guy and all the girls from tweens to high school girls up have been getting their make up from the store he worked in is apalling.

And Sheriff Leazneby saying publicly he "knew that voice" from somewhere, thereby alerting RA to to never be the one to check Leazenby out or let his his voice be heard by him in any way is just another police error.

 

[minor4th]

Thank you, I appreciate you for locating the reference. I hope we hear back from the OP attorney.

See above.

 

[Crazyjster]

I still don't understand why a defendant can't defend themselves with their theory of what happened.

Far fetched or not the jury will be the ones to decide that, that's what they're there for.

What am I missing?

You need to have evidence that your theory is correct...if you are going to blame someone else you need to have proof.

 

[Boxer]

I must have missed something can you please elaborate...

What do you mean get RA "evaluated?"? He was placed on a unit for SW..from basically the time of arrest. To get that placement he would have had to be EVALUATED, they do not just put people on SW.

What is SW?
Westville has a segregation unit used for many reasons. One being the gen pop wants to kill you.

 

[Crazyjster]

What is SW?
Westville has a segregation unit used for many reasons. One being the gen pop wants to kill you.

suicide watch...which I believe he was on...

 

[Warwick7]

Hard to imagine the reasoning of an accused perverted child killer. Nothing about what happened to Abby & Libby makes sense to me except they had the unfortunate mistake of running into RA.

Abby died by her fatal wound where she lay, Libby dragged to close by. Maybe RA wanted them to be closer and able to see each other or maybe he simply thought he could cover them up and camouflage them easier with branches that way?? IDK
IMO

Dragging Libby back...
Cicero testified to the area as a "bowl depression if you will, where the bodies found. (Great place to hide).
Cicero also testified he believes if Libby's body had not been moved, it would have been easier to see their bodies from the creek.

 

[Bbgiraffe]

suicide watch...which I believe he was on...

But that type of evaluation is different than a competency evaluation. That would be much more extensive and if he could be ruled incompetent at the time he made the confessions it would discredit the confessions. His attorneys never got a competency evaluation so we don't know whether he was incompetent or insane at the time of his confessions.

 

[ClearAhead]

"Devoted fan base" is a very wrong assumption and it borders on insult.

Let me clear I am not his "fan". I have no feelings about him one way or another.
I am adamantly opposed to the treatment he has received and I'm appalled that it's been allowed.

I did not state anyone in particular is a devoted fan of RA and most certainly not you.

We’ve all been waiting a long time for this trial to occur, and now it suddenly seems everything and anything is being blamed for RA becoming the defendant of this trial. The decision rests with the jury and it’s possible the reason he was charged is because he’s guilty. If they don’t think he’s guilty, that’s okay too, he’s free to walk. JMO

 

[jepop]

Discovery? Interviews before trials?

The exchange Baldwin & he had regarding when he worked on the ATM & BW correcting him, saying it was in the morning & he’d dropped off a trailer after work. Don’t recall specifically when BW shouted the NO but I read the exchange as Baldwin didn’t believe the testimony & slapped down the subpoena (accounts vary on how the subpoena was given to BW).

Why would he have a subpoena in his hand all ready to go & wait until after cross to give it to him? If there were issues serving him one might think to give it to him first thing if they didn’t want to take chances.

Whole point of the post was concerning dramatic acting by attorneys not the circumstances that caused the subpoena to be given to BW.

Hope that makes sense.

ETA JMO

That makes sense . Jmo

 

[Boxer]

I still don't understand why a defendant can't defend themselves with their theory of what happened.

Far fetched or not the jury will be the ones to decide that, that's what they're there for.

What am I missing?

That someone can't name you as the killer in their defense without a shred of proof.

 

[Crazyjster]

But that type of evaluation is different than a competency evaluation. That would be much more extensive and if he could be ruled incompetent at the time he made the confessions it would discredit the confessions. His attorneys never got a competency evaluation so we don't know whether he was incompetent or insane at the time of his confessions.

I agree 100%...but it depends what he was being evaluated for..either way IMO the D failed....if he was just given a suicide risk eval then he should not have been in solitary 13 mo...the effects are detrimental to people without a MH Dx...and to those with acute MH issues it can exacerbate symptoms after a few days. Once a client is stable on meds it is best to move out of SC. A full competency eval is typically 30-90 days for the courts and they were typically ordered by the judge or state agency or the defense privately. They are different then SW or SP (suicide precaution). There are other evals as well that can be court ordered or privately ordered by the D that were not done (i.e. offender evals).