Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #210

[Momofthreeboys]

If I were his lawyer, knowing how shoddy the original investigation was, I would not advise him to seek a plea deal. Even if I thought he was guilty, I would advise him that his best chance would be to go to trial. If convicted, he can appeal if he does not take a deal - can he get an appeal if he takes a plea deal? I'm not sure he can but I'm not a lawyer so I am actually asking.

Even the original investigation errors aside, their investigation of, and treatment of him since 2022 has been horrific imo. Add to that the issues with Wala being his prison psychologist and the issues she introduced to the case? I'd be doing exactly what his team are doing - pursuing trial and appeals on conviction. I wouldn't even have hired another psychologist to assess him - why bother when Wala makes their job so easy? MOO.

Its not defense counsel's job to care about the victims or their loved ones. That is not to say they do not / cannot care about them, however, their job, their sole responsibility is RA and what is in HIS best interest, even if that causes upset or hurt to the loved ones left behind and the community at large. Imo a plea deal would not have been in HIS best interest. MOO.

Agree totally.

 

[otto]

According to his own Defense Team RA wasn't crazy or acting crazy until Discovery. RA was 'affable, had a sense of humor, was polite and engaged in helping them in his defense'. They weren't concerned about RA's mental health enough to order and independent Psych Eval from Nov until April and even after April with his "psychotic" episodes. Wonder why?

Then come the phone confessions to Wife and Mom and he's suddenly a paper and pooh eating, drooling, head banging, self pleasuring, among other things, histrionic lunatic. RA presented this way from April to June, and then mysteriously calmed down again, with an occasional ragey outburst or confession. Like this recent one where he threatened to kill the guard at Cass County jail where he's being held during trial.

After Discovery RA KNEW what the State knew at that point, as would the general public shortly. His wife and mom wouldn't talk to him about it so there's a perfect storm for his explosive behavior and his psychosis. He MUST have their approval and CONTROL of them regardless of what he'd done, which he begged for each time he confessed.

Why do people insist on forgetting that prior to his arrest Defendant Allen was a functioning member of society, holding down a steady job which included decision making skills, had a home paid for, had a long term marriage, traveled, participated in pool tournaments and socialized down at the local pub? Just a regular ole' Rick, except we know he wasn't.

RA went to the MHB on Feb 13, 2017 to kill, and unfortunately Abby & Libby fit his desired victimology. It's really as simple as that, even though to us it makes absolutely no sense and never will.

All IMO

I read one comment yesterday that one or two jurors had tears in their eyes while watching video of Richard Allen act out in prison. I'm curious ... were they feeling sorry for the man who is angry about his prison conditions, or did they see a man who had no boundaries acting out sexually and did they then imagine that some of what he did in prison might be similar to what he did with the girls? One thing is certain - they saw an ugly side of RA that emerges when he doesn't get what he wants.

We know he was interrupted during the sexual assault - by his own admission. Did he force the girls to run from the first crime scene across the creek and up the ravine while undressed and missing one shoe? When he finally had them in a second location in the ravine, was he angry? Was he acting out like he did in prison? What was he doing for an hour with them in the ravine?

Were his prison antics a preview of his anger towards the girls prior to their murders - blaming them because he was interrupted?

 

[Deleted member 296739]

You know, I don't think I've ever seen anyone ask this question...

Hey, @INfisherman --how active would you expect fish to be in those temps in that body of water in mid February?

While we’re on it- what types of fish would he be watching? Sometimes fish watching is actually a thing when certain species are spawning or moving from place to place so I’m not de facto dismissing the concept of watching fish - but I have no clue what would be in the waters below the bridge in that area… TIA

 

[Deleted member 296739]

The psych scares me...she seems like a "fan" of her client and I could go down some inappropriate and unethical roads...I'm just hoping that my brain is speculating...psychology is subjective, it was her job to make it less subjective and more quantifiable if that is possible. She did not do that IMO and I feel she left people with more questions

I got the same feeling about her - hope I’m wrong too- moo

 

[photographer4]

But they did - in their response to the State’s motion in limine and at the hearing. Todd Click and another LEO gave some good testimony about the third party suspects. But it’s impossible to say exactly what happened at the hearing because it wasn’t streamed/recorded, and there weren’t a lot of reporters keeping eyes on the case at that point.

Again I say, isn't it interesting that Gull allowed cameras in the courtroom only once - for a hearing last October when she dismissed B & R from the courtroom. For link, see my posts from late last night. It was provided upthread.

 

[Crazyjster]

Doesn't matter. He's going down. Ignore the circus aspects of the trial, and look forward to justice being served. Hopefully to the full extent the law allows.

justice is people doing their job correctly and following the law. If RA is "going down...to the full extent the law allows," the State better offer up some clear and convincing evidence BARD because right now I don't see it IMO

 

[Salah11]

I am here for Libby and Abby and Justice for these sweet precious girls.

RA is the man responsible for their deaths and I hope he never goes a day without feeling guilty for what he stole that afternoon.

IMO

 

[Crazyjster]

No one has been convicted of a crime...so people are not "responsible".....they might be in your opinion so please remember to state that

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Do we have the official time of the geofence? Did that finally get presented? Sorry if I messed it - I’m seriously behind on this thread - TIA

Defense Third Franks references geofencing data from 12:39pm to 5:49 pm.
Note section 16 that states that geofencing evidence negates the phone of RA at the scene.

https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:VA6C2:060ba81d-e61e-4b24-bfdd-9f0733fbdf70

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Defense Third Franks references geofencing data from 12:39pm to 5:49 pm.
Note section 16 that states that geofencing evidence negates the phone of RA at the scene.

Adobe Acrobat

Thank you!

 

[photographer4]

Was the white van the info "only the killer would know"? I need to find Wala's previous testimony at the 3-day hearing.

Something doesn't sit right with how the P have used the white van as their bombshell. I'm not seeing it imo.

It really makes no sense.
"At 2:31 p.m., Cecil said cell phone records note a change in longitude, altitude and elevation which means the phone was moving.
By 2:32 p.m., Cecil testified the phone stopped and never moved again. He told the court it didn't ping anywhere outside the trails, Deer Creek and the site where the girls' bodies were found the next day."

Libby German's phone data analyzed at Delphi double-murder trial: 'You need to call me now!'

The analysis comes as defense attorneys are trying to introduce the Odinism theory into Richard Allen's double-murder trial.

abc7chicago.com

Imo if the phone stopped moving at 2:32, they were already where the phone would later be found - about 50ft from the creek up the cemetery side. Nowhere near BW's place or that road. I also question whether any such vehicle could have been seen by RA or the kids from the lower elevation on the north side of the creek. They went "down the hill" - it looks fairly steep imo - I doubt any car could have been seen from "down the hill". MOO.

Police confirm bodies found near Delphi are missing teens, searching for suspect

50ft from the creek - no way they're getting from the side where BW was to where that phone was found - going through the cold water no less, in time for anyone to notice BW if he was arriving in the area at that time. MOOO. Not realistic to get from DTH to the other side, AND 50ft up what the state calls: "difficult terrain" (search my prior posts to see NM's response to a motion by the D to have the jury visit the scene for this quote) in such a short period of time just because the abductor was spooked. Sorry, not buying that for a hot minute!

 

[WildHuncher]

justice is people doing their job correctly and following the law. If RA is "going down...to the full extent the law allows," the State better offer up some clear and convincing evidence BARD because right now I don't see it IMO

That’s the “Justice is what the justice system does” definition. A rose is a rose. A tautology is a tautology.

I can’t find a definition that covers everything the word means to me but this is better:

justice

1. fairness in the way people are dealt with: 2. the system of laws in a…

dictionary.cambridge.org

 

[Momofthreeboys]

I read one comment yesterday that one or two jurors had tears in their eyes while watching video of Richard Allen act out in prison. I'm curious ... were they feeling sorry for the man who is angry about his prison conditions, or did they see a man who had no boundaries acting out sexually and did they then imagine that some of what he did in prison might be similar to what he did with the girls? One thing is certain - they saw an ugly side of RA that emerges when he doesn't get what he wants.

We know he was interrupted during the sexual assault - by his own admission. Did he force the girls to run from the first crime scene across the creek and up the ravine while undressed and missing one shoe? When he finally had them in a second location in the ravine, was he angry? Was he acting out like he did in prison? What was he doing for an hour with them in the ravine?

Were his prison antics a preview of his anger towards the girls prior to their murders - blaming them because he was interrupted?

I think they couldn’t believe what they were seeing of a man they fully understand was presumed innocent. Who knew this was happening in our justice system. Call me shocked also. I always thought people who could not afford bail were held in their local jails close to their family and lawyers and transported in police vehicles to and from court appearances not in prison treated like the worst of convicted felons. I have no idea what the jury saw but they will weigh it with regard to the alleged confessions and the early interviews where he proclaimed his innocence and pushed back on the interrogation technique I think.

 

[detectivewannab]

The psych scares me...she seems like a "fan" of her client and I could go down some inappropriate and unethical roads...I'm just hoping that my brain is speculating...psychology is subjective, it was her job to make it less subjective and more quantifiable if that is possible. She did not do that IMO and I feel she left people with more questions

All of us on here follow True Crime. I am guilty of googling "Delphi Murder" more then she has. I want justice for these girl. I have had a family member murdered and feel for this family. What they have been through is unimaginable. In my case we knew who did it and he was behind bars right away. The torture of not knowing would be horrible.

 

[sunshineray]

The probable cause affidavit for RA’s arrest and the search of his home. The State has corrected some of the times listed in the affidavit as well as some of the substance.

Were those time errors typographical in nature? Anything of actual substance to the case corrected/changed? Your statements are worrying. Do you have a link please to the new and corrected document? TIA

 

[DoctorRose]

The same psych is also the one who gave the "chronological and organized story" confession without any corroboration other than her own word. Her credibility was proven to be not great. This is what makes the case complicated. Everything is subjective. Only the jury has first hand information about the proceedings and will be the best judge. MOO

I think the one who explained how they determine if someone is faking psychosis was the higher up Dr. Wenger iirc.

 

[DoctorRose]

Or he did it and the reality and lack of booze in jail meant he suddenly couldn’t cope with the reality’s of the situation as he had always used booze to self medicate.

IMO

Yeah, for sure. I’m just saying that the psychosis and his mental health changes over all don’t necessarily point me in either direction because either one could make sense.

 

[shonyakay]

Yes he did. He saw the car by the child welfare building

Link please?
Not in the report I read.

 

[sunshineray]

All of us on here follow True Crime. I am guilty of googling "Delphi Murder" more then she has. I want justice for these girl. I have had a family member murdered and feel for this family. What they have been through is unimaginable. In my case we knew who did it and he was behind bars right away. The torture of not knowing would be horrible.

I'm so sorry for your loss, God bless you

 

[detectivewannab]

I would not find him guilty given what I know about the investigation at this point. I do not believe the investigation was handled well, or even in any sort of organized fashion.
- outright failed to collect the sticks until weeks post crime - how do you re-secure a crime scene after its been visited by an untold number of people? Why did they leave them there at all?
- Dan Dulin did not record the interview with RA - why not? He said in an article I linked last night - he had not started to use his voice recorded yet at that point - really? Why not? That article further noted that he found his notes on his computer and THEN submitted them. This made me wonder, did he NOT submit them originally in 2017?? If not, why not?
- Interview recordings have been lost / recorded over from the beginning of the investigation.
- Police seem to have ongoing tech issues because they STILL can't get the recordings to work for the interview of RA in 2022?? Really??
- They threw him into Westville and did who knows what to his medications.
- Wala is a disaster as we all know, and her statements can't really be granted trust imo....
- the 'confessions' were lacking imo - flimsy and devoid of details that only the killer would know (imo).

Even if we remove theories of SODDI - I can't find RA guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in the presence of such lousy police work and given Wala's involvement and his treatment in prison where imo he was clearlly quite unwell. I'm sorry. I just can't. But when we add SODDI back in? Yeah... I see it. It is POSSIBLE that someone snatched the kids off the south side of the bridge and RA was gone or didn't see it happen. Its not been proven BARD to me that he did this.

MOOOOO.

Strongly disagree. When he is found guilty I hope he prison is he'll for him.