Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #211

[FrostedGlass]

I think Libby's phone movements are critical as to establishing the crime scene and approx time of death.

1. We know they didn't go anywhere else. The phone was found at the murder scene, within range of it's step and location data, so there is a strong inference the girls walked from A to B with a pause.

2. Given the phone was always on, any second location is ruled out, as there would be no way for the phone to get to the crime scene later without movement being recorded.

The elevation can't be regarded as being super perfect to the meter/floor IMO. Anyone regular user of garmin or apple health knows this. I can walk up the hill to my front door and get a floor. But other times it doesn't register in real time at all.

MOO

Thanks for your reply.

The inconsistencies bother me. If I'm to believe the down the hill part (which sounds right) then I'm left to believe they began their steps on the trail at 1:30.

I don't use a Garmin or Apple Health so I didn't know that they are inaccurate. Thanks for informing me. I think the 20' elevation is reasonable but the lack of elevation drop (~60') is problematic. OTOH, if the app never shows drop in elevation, then I'm OK with it. Does your app measure loss when you go down the hill?

 

[INfisherman]

BBM, You mean the very phone that went /missing recycled... but for the other 20+ phones they found that he had saved? Strange isn't it?! smh

I think I’ve got it - the returns on the stock investments were so good that it caused a reaction where the phone slipped out of the hands, fell down into the creek & a largemouth bass came shooting out of a nearby log jam in a deep hole & ate the phone.

ETA fell into the creek

JMO

 

[Salah11]

Yes. Im missing common sense in the defence, like timeline, phone records. Proof that RA is not BG. Unless there is no defence, because RA was there and he was BG and killed the girls in a gruesome way.

Jmo

Well, that’s it in a nutshell. He snookered his own defence by admitting he was out on the bridge and dressed as the killer. He has no alibi as he is guilty and so it’s just the defence trying to throw something at the wall in the hopes it sticks.



I don't believe the Prosecution have done a spectacular job, but it's enough to get a conviction. I think a better defence team would have got him off with all the errors made, but the prosecution is lucky that RA's team have been dire and completely unprofessional to boot.



IMO

 

[sunshineray]

It appears to have become fair sport to ridicule someone who suffers from mental illness. I guess that’s easy if one has never experienced it either personally or in a loved one. You don’t love them less, you tend to love them more. I hope no one here ever experiences what happened to RA in Westville or to have a loved one suffer through 13 months of solitary, sleep deprivation, tasing and finally full on psychosis. What has happened to RA, could happen to anyone of us, and THAT should scare the begeebies out of us. There’s a great video on Youtube by an attorney on why one should never talk to LE without an attorney present. This case has certainly impressed that upon me! All MOO.

It becomes clear that RA has also abused himself, history of drinking and being on anti-depression meds, assuming at the same time.

I'd love to hear from his co-workers throughout the years, what their experiences with RA were. That would certainly help in painting a better picture of the "fragile egg" of a man being falsely accused.

I wonder if the P can even put on such witnesses now in rebuttal or is that considered too prejudicial than asking only his wife, sister and daughter what he was like? That's bias or prejudicial testimony, IMO, and the only side we've heard.

Maybe the door has been opened with the doctor and family's informative information on who RA is, his background? AJMO

 

[m00c0w]

It appears to have become fair sport to ridicule someone who suffers from mental illness. I guess that’s easy if one has never experienced it either personally or in a loved one. You don’t love them less, you tend to love them more. I hope no one here ever experiences what happened to RA in Westville or to have a loved one suffer through 13 months of solitary, sleep deprivation, tasing and finally full on psychosis. What has happened to RA, could happen to anyone of us, and THAT should scare the begeebies out of us. There’s a great video on Youtube by an attorney on why one should never talk to LE without an attorney present. This case has certainly impressed that upon me! All MOO.

BBM

I hope RA never has to suffer through this, either.

 

[mrjitty]

Thanks for your reply.

The inconsistencies bother me. If I'm to believe the down the hill part (which sounds right) then I'm left to believe they began their steps on the trail at 1:30.

I don't get this part - why at 1.30?

I don't use a Garmin or Apple Health so I didn't know that they are inaccurate. Thanks for informing me. I think the 20' elevation is reasonable but the lack of elevation drop (~60') is problematic. OTOH, if the app never shows drop in elevation, then I'm OK with it. Does your app measure loss when you go down the hill?

It depends on whether I am doing an activity. If I am doing a run, i get way more updates - whereas if i am just walking around i might see an aggregate

I don't really see the issue as the data simply corroborates best it can. We know the phone was on the bridge, and we know it was at the crime scene. Therefore it must have travelled by foot between the two locations, unless someone threw it. But as there are steps - we know it went by foot.

I don't think you can use the data to try to disprove the plotted journey where there is no other possible route.

 

[sunflowermomma]

Were the blue coat and a cap ever recovered from Richard Allen's house?

 

[FromGermany1]

Did the jurors ask any questions about the phone data, cell tower stuff? You'd think they'd be wondering about that, was RA's phone on the cell tower data? If so, like you said, it could then say where he went after he supposedly left the trails at 1:30pm that day, where he was at the time of the murders, his alibi. It's just been crickets about his whereabouts after he said he left or for that matter when he said he got to the trails, watching his stock ticker as he walked by the group of teen girls. Crickets. AJMO

If he was in an unusual mental state at the time of the crime, does it make sense, to ask him years later, what he did at a certain time? He can't know it or his mental state was completely okay in February 2017. IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Agreed - but I just wonder what was the strategy?

Was the Odinist prison guard thing just for public consumption to head off the confessions? Clearly it wasn't for the Judge.

And did they feel it was too risky to run with psychosis as showing too much of their hand pre-trial? The net result was not without downsides given RA confessed as recently as Feb '24

MOO

You nailed it, they were too afraid to run with a mental capacity defense. IMO

 

[susane7]

I am wondering if after Wescott testimony that Allen is a fragile egg, a passive person, subdue etc opened the doors to the video of him in Cass Country screaming and threatening the guards?

 

[m00c0w]

I am wondering if after Wescott testimony that Allen is a fragile egg, a passive person, subdue etc opened the doors to the video of him in Cass Country screaming and threatening the guards?

I have a feeling there are a couple of things that will be a part of the prosecution’s rebuttal, with that being one of them.

 

[sunshineray]

If he was in an unusual mental state at the time of the crime, does it make sense, to ask him years later, what he did at a certain time? He can't know it or his mental state was completely okay in February 2017. IMO

He set up an interview almost immediately after the murders. Sounds like he was cognitive. According to RA he drank a six pack that day, right before the murders, maybe he was falling down drunk? 5'4" inch frame downing a sixpack from close to 12 to 12:30? Was he driving drunk on the way to the trails? Maybe that's why he has no alibi for the time right after 1:30pm, he passed out?

It's seems from the testimony of the expert Dr and filled in by RA's wife, that it wasn't so unusual for RA to be in all sorts of stressful conditions throughout his whole life.

Yet, he functioned, had a steady job, a nice home, went out with his wife socializing regularly, had vacations, raised a daughter, had a good life...until he got caught. Guilt is a terrible stress on a person, capture may be a relief to some.
AJMO

 

[Vaderman]

I am wondering if after Wescott testimony that Allen is a fragile egg, a passive person, subdue etc opened the doors to the video of him in Cass Country screaming and threatening the guards?

I wondered that as well.

 

[sunshineray]

Agreed - but I just wonder what was the strategy?

Was the Odinist prison guard thing just for public consumption to head off the confessions? Clearly it wasn't for the Judge.

And did they feel it was too risky to run with psychosis as showing too much of their hand pre-trial? The net result was not without downsides given RA confessed as recently as Feb '24

MOO

It was all for social media, MO. The Due Process Gang spread it around, day after day so that was the Oooo fantastical tale of what really happened, until it came time to put up and they couldn't. Just ridiculous and like JG called them, negligent and incompetent. AJMO

 

[rhino]

Thanks for your reply.

The inconsistencies bother me. If I'm to believe the down the hill part (which sounds right) then I'm left to believe they began their steps on the trail at 1:30.

I don't use a Garmin or Apple Health so I didn't know that they are inaccurate. Thanks for informing me. I think the 20' elevation is reasonable but the lack of elevation drop (~60') is problematic. OTOH, if the app never shows drop in elevation, then I'm OK with it. Does your app measure loss when you go down the hill?

No, it shows elevation gain only. It’s also slightly inconsistent, as others have pointed out. More accurate when you’re walking longer distances at a steady rate or climb.

Mine massively underestimates daily steps, e.g at home or work when I’m only moving a very short distance at a time.

 

[m00c0w]

No, it shows elevation gain only. It’s also slightly inconsistent, as others have pointed out. More accurate when you’re walking longer distances at a steady rate or climb.

Mine massively underestimates daily steps, e.g at home or work when I’m only moving a very short distance at a time.

Yes, it only measures “floors climbed”, not how many you went down as that doesn’t generally count for much, fitness-wise.

JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

RA told Wala that he bought a six-pack of beer on his way back to Delphi from Peru near lunchtime on Monday 2/13/17. I wish Wala would have asked him where he stopped to make the purchase - bar or grocery store. He would have likely taken the Hoosier Highway route. Do convenience stores sell beer in Indiana?

I suppose it’s far too long ago for LE to pull store receipts for that day. It could have been another nugget of confirmation of his narrative, if located.

jmo

 

[sunshineray]

Well it sounds like he did at least drop off a trailer after work. Otherwise he wouldn’t have been driving his van?

There’s some missing info IMO

Baldwin stated in that exchange:

Baldwin: "That was earlier in the day. You went and worked on your ATM machines.

He dropped it off "earlier in the day", not after work.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I am wondering if after Wescott testimony that Allen is a fragile egg, a passive person, subdue etc opened the doors to the video of him in Cass Country screaming and threatening the guards?

Thirteen months in Westville in solitary confinement might cause a person to develop some deep-seated anger. I wonder what happened to trigger it.
MOO
We've found that putting inmates in solitary for extended periods of time was very beneficial to their mental problems said No One Ever.

 

[arielilane]

13 Things To Know From The #Delphi Murders Trial Today - Nov 4


1. Important day for the defense. Their star witness was a neuropsychologist who presented compelling evidence that Richard Allen was mentally ill at the time he confessed to killing Abby & Libby.


2. Dr. Polly Westcott told jurors that she met with Allen in prison to conduct a series of psychological exams on him. She also reviewed prison videos, phone calls Allen made in prison, medical records & staff notes to write a 127-page report with a detailed set of conclusions.




3. Among her conclusions: Richard Allen suffered from Major Depressive Disorder and Psychosis, had significant mental and physical decline, and was not faking or exaggering his mental health problems during the time period that he confessed to killing Abby & Libby.


4. Dr. Westcott’s testimony undercuts statements by the State & its witnesses that Allen was not mentally ill at the time of his confessions & was faking mental illness. It’s a boost for the defense after jurors heard damning phone call confessions last week in Allen’s own voice.


5. To support that testimony, jurors saw 2 videos that show Allen inside his prison cell. Only jurors could see those videos – those of us in the gallery could not. But we were told the videos showed Allen eating his own feces and banging his head against the wall of his cell.


6. Jurors were visibly upset as they watched the videos. Some of them winced and repeatedly looked away. The videos were an effort by the defense to try to convince jurors that Allen’s mental health was so deteriorated in prison that it drove him to make false confessions.


7. Prosecutor Nick McLeland got into a heated exchange with the defense team. He accused them of showing only the worst images of RA in prison to get sympathy from the jury & to turn Allen into the victim. The defense countered by saying the videos simply showed jurors the truth.


8. Allen’s sister & daughter testified next — asked by def atty Andrew Baldwin if they had ever been sexually assaulted by Richard Allen. They both said no.
That supports Dr. Westcott’s testimony that RA falsely confessed to things in prison he did not do due to mental illness.


8a. I want to acknowledge an error on my part this afternoon. As one of 2 pool reporters today, it was my job to report accurate notes to other media who could not attend. While Allen‘s daughter, Brittany, was testifying, she was asked a series of questions…

8b. Among them:
Do you love your father?
Would you lie for him?
While quickly writing her replies, I wrote a series of NOs . That was a mistake. She very clearly responded she DOES love her dad. We quickly identified the error & corrected it for the pool, but it was a huge error.


8c. When journalists make mistakes, it is important that we take responsibility for them. I sincerely regret the error and hope to be able to apologize to Brittany in person. All of the families involved in this case have been through so much.

9. Steve Mullin, former Delphi police chief and current investigator for the prosecutors office, was back on the stand again today. The defense tried to hammer away at his credibility by highlighting inconsistencies & incomplete info offered in his prior testimony.

10. Then, a much-anticipated second appearance by Brad Weber. He lives right next to the murder scene & last week he shouted at Andrew Baldwin while being questioned about his story & exact location on the day of the murders. Today Weber was somewhat calmer but still feisty.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1853639067088326710

11. Weber acknowledged he gave different stories to investigators during two separate interviews in Feb 2017. In one, he said he drove his white van right home from work on the day of the murders. In the other, he said he left work and went to service some ATM machines.

12. The difference is important because the State claims one of Allen’s confessions references the van driven by Weber. If Weber did not go straight home from work, the State’s timeline for RA seeing the van right before the murders doesn’t work out the way it was told to jurors.

13. With so much happening in the courtroom today, it’s no wonder our #Delphi Debrief is about 50 minutes this evening. Great to have @SamJohnsonNews join me tonight while Emily is on Election Eve coverage. Here’s a link to the Debrief:

Thread by @BobSegallWTHR on Thread Reader App

@BobSegallWTHR: 13 Things To Know From The #Delphi Murders Trial Today - Nov 4🧵 1. Important day for the defense. Their star witness was a neuropsychologist who presented compelling evidence that Richard Allen was m...…

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