VERDICT WATCH Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #213

[Bosie]

I personally believe that the clothing "discarded" in the creek was actually dropped in the rush to get across, and that Abby was able/allowed to quickly put on some pants before crossing the creek.

JMO

Ah, interesting. But if I am not mistaken, didn't Abby have Libby's pants and underwear on as well? You mean that Libby was undressed somewhere else and marched naked to the crime scene?

 

[Jw192]

And some use it as a moisturizer. Lol! And yet he said, "I won't do that again."

They say solitary will cause you do do strange things...well so does murder/guilt.

Yup!

I've read so many comments in here regarding the psychosis aspect and assuming that it was a direct and primary result of the "solitary confinement"/one man cell and the allegations of prisoner neglect when in factual reality psychotic episodes as a whole can be brought about by a multitude of triggers. Taking away the mental illnesses that we all know include psychosis (as RA was diagnosed with none of them before during or after) you also have alcohol withdrawal, that can cause a psychotic episode and we know by RA's own word and history that he loved a bev. You also have stress, when your brain becomes overloaded with stress or anxiety it can cause a level of psychosis... I don't think the level of stress in RA's situation needs to be explained. Then we have depression. RA is noted to have had struggles with depression "most of his life" and severe depression can cause a psychotic episode. There's many other triggers too.
So to buy into the defenses claim that him being kept in a cell on his own for his own safety is the direct cause of psychosis is absurd.
Whilst guilt as a singular isn't known to cause psychosis, extreme guilt can and does cause anxiety, stress and depression which can result in a psychotic episode. Brief reactive psychosis is commonly triggered by a stressful and disturbing event and is very reactive to medication as seen with RA.

Anyways I'm babbling, but yah you get the picture. IMO the brief psychotic episodes mentioned in trial are NOT the result of a man kept in a one man cell for a year for his own safety, but they're a result of a guilty man who's consequences to his actions have caused a whirlwind of triggers in his brain - stress, anxiety, depression. The confessions happened and even IF they were given whilst an episode of psychosis was present, though it's been testified to that some confessions occured episode free, even IF they were it doesn't mean they are not true and IMO they explain why the psychosis occured in the first place... He killed those little girls, he got caught, locked up and was exposed to the two most important people to him (wife and mother) and his head couldn't handle it all which resulted in a brief psychotic episode. His actions that he repeatedly confessed to caused it, not the DOC.

IMO

 

[Tortoise]

At 10:24 a.m. court is back in session and defense attorney Brad Rozzi begins his closing argument.

Rozzi tells the jury they’ve been there for almost a month and have seen 17 days of evidence. “The defense trusts that what you’ve heard over the last several weeks.”

Rozzi says there are four main themes:

1. Broken timeline.
2. Bumbled ballistics.
3. False confessions.
4. Digital forensics.

Rozzi tells the jury that the state has presented a theme of “what they don’t want you to hear, it’s what we had to tell you.” He says, “we had to do their job.”

Rozzi expands on that by saying that the state refused to have height analysis done on Bridge Guy. He says hours of video interviews from 2017 were lost. Rozzi tells the jury the state had to look at a detail about the Ford Focus after doing a BMV search in the middle of the trial after a juror asked about it. He said the juror asked if it was the only 2016 black Ford Focus registered in 2017.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 18 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with closing arguments from both prosecution and defense. Jury will decide the fate of suspect Richard Allen.

wishtv.com

 

[justtrish]

McLeland says they found the Sig Sauer .40 caliber handgun and cartridges that were the same brand and caliber as the cartridge found at the crime scene. McLeland calls it a “Bridge Guy starter kit.”

He says they found a memories box and that box contained a .40 caliber cartridge. He says investigators found many electronic devices, but not the phone Allen used in 2017.

McLeland tells the jury that Allen searched “should I die now,” after looking at Delphi news in April 2022.

He tells the jury that Melissa Oberg found the cartridge at the scene cycled through Allen’s handgun and her work was verified.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 18 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with closing arguments from both prosecution and defense. Jury will decide the fate of suspect Richard Allen.

wishtv.com

Interesting how he noted the timing of specific google searches. Sometimes things aren't in what is searched, but when and I was curious about these searches. They had a reason for wanting those in.

 

[gremlin444]

I, along with a lot of other people, wish that the prosecution had brought in another phone expert for rebuttal to give more evidence to the moisture/dirt causing the headphone jack to register falsely.

I think there's a simple reason why they didn't--the defense settled yesterday morning with no warning. Even Judge Gull was surprised. The court had to take a several hour recess while the prosecution tried to get their rebuttal witnesses to court that they could with short order.

Given that the defense's phone expert was Tuesday afternoon, that doesn't give the prosecution much time to get back to their offices after court and start trying to find one. If they did find one, I would suspect they were anticipating that they wouldn't need them for rebuttal until today or tomorrow. After all, the defense had hinted KA would be taking the stand, along with some other experts. I think they thought the defense would be resting at the end of yesterday or mid day today.

I think the state either couldn't find someone who could testify with such short notice, or decided not to ask the judge to wait until today for them to have an expert come in if one was available--maybe they knew she would say no or they suspected having one come in separated by an extra day from the defense's testimony would be weak. Not to mention, you can't just wave a hand and bring in an expert without procedure--the judge and defense have to examine their credentials and accept them first. I'm pretty sure that holds even for rebuttal witnesses.

 

[katydid23]

Just tuning in on this case again, I have a a question I wonder if a kind would care to answer:
- If the suspect brought and used a gun (bullet found), why kill the girls with a different weapon (knife)? A perpetrator usually have a preference of weapon, and a Gun or a Knife are vastly different in its proximity to a victim and MO.

IMO, he used the gun to control the girls. But he wouldn't want to shoot the gun in broad daylight in a public park. He didn't want to bring attention to himself and the hostages.

The knife was his choice of killing weapon, and was quieter and more exciting.

If the accused R.A was "spooked" the most rational thing would be to end their lives with the weapon he already had in hand to coerce them (since it had worked prior),

When he was spooked by the car he quickly moved the girls across the creek and up the hill. He could not have ended their lives right there because the car was coming towards them down a long gravel road.

"not to challenge the situation" and switch to something that takes 1). more time 2). more mess 3). harder to control the other person waiting to be attacked.

He switched to a new, more hidden location. So now he had more time to continue the sick fantasy. The car had already passed and did not see them.

And then, having time to discard of clothing and redressing one of victim. It is not consistent with a person that is "spooked", not having the time to SA, but time to murder . yet staying a prolonged time at the scene?

-

The girls may have dropped that clothing in the creek themselves as he forced them across. I've wondered if Libby did it to leave clues about where they were headed? She knew her father would be there any minute to look for them.

I don't think he redressed anyone ---he likely just ordered Abby to put those cloths on.

Many perps stay at the crime scene for awhile. That is the payoff for them. They want it to last as long as possible.

 

[Bosie]

It is horrible to imagine but that is a plausible theory that he did slash Libby first. Hence the blood found on Abby's shoe. RA slashed Libby once or twice. He then went to Abby, straddled her by pinning her arms to her chest in a boxing position, which is why she didn't have blood on her hands or sleeves. Libby in the mean time has made it to the tree. RA gets off of Abby and comes after Libby slashing her again.

I think it all happened very quickly.

Why didn't Abby try to run away when Libby was attacked in that case? I understand she may have frozen in fear, not wanting to leave her friend, etc. But I do imagine it quite hard to control two teenage girls when the gun has been put away, and they know what is coming? I guess it is just how it happens. But can you think of any other possibility?
Very sad, I feel so much for these girls.

 

[Davemac1]

@Davemac1 I believe that in the interview RA stated he was wearing black boots.

That works.

 

[Tortoise]

Rozzi begins to describe witness testimony, saying that Brad Heath said he saw an unusual man that day. He said the Betsy Blair testimony didn’t tell the whole story.

Rozzi says “I have to take a breath before I talk about here,” when referring to Sarah Carbaugh.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 18 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with closing arguments from both prosecution and defense. Jury will decide the fate of suspect Richard Allen.

wishtv.com

 

[WildHuncher]

At 10:24 a.m. court is back in session and defense attorney Brad Rozzi begins his closing argument.

Rozzi tells the jury they’ve been there for almost a month and have seen 17 days of evidence. “The defense trusts that what you’ve heard over the last several weeks.”

Rozzi says there are four main themes:

1. Broken timeline.
2. Bumbled ballistics.
3. False confessions.
4. Digital forensics.

Rozzi tells the jury that the state has presented a theme of “what they don’t want you to hear, it’s what we had to tell you.” He says, “we had to do their job.”

Rozzi expands on that by saying that the state refused to have height analysis done on Bridge Guy. He says hours of video interviews from 2017 were lost. Rozzi tells the jury the state had to look at a detail about the Ford Focus after doing a BMV search in the middle of the trial after a juror asked about it. He said the juror asked if it was the only 2016 black Ford Focus registered in 2017.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 18 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with closing arguments from both prosecution and defense. Jury will decide the fate of suspect Richard Allen.

wishtv.com

Weak sauce.

 

[Tortoise]

He says Carbaugh conflated “muddy” with “bloody.” He tells the jury they may discount a witness, calling it “credible dubiosity.” He says the jury that they can discredit Carbaugh.

Rozzi says the prosecution did not tell them about David McCain, Shelby Hicks or Cheyenne Mill because it “doesn’t fit their narrative.”

Rozzi tells the jury the prosecution didn’t include Allen’s timeline regarding how he got to the bridge.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 18 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with closing arguments from both prosecution and defense. Jury will decide the fate of suspect Richard Allen.

wishtv.com

 

[Bosie]

IMO, he used the gun to control the girls. But he wouldn't want to shoot the gun in broad daylight in a public park. He didn't want to bring attention to himself and the hostages.

The knife was his choice of killing weapon, and was quieter and more exciting.

When he was spooked by the car he quick ly moved the girls across the creek and up the hill. He could not have ended their lives right there because the car was coming towards them down a long gravel road.

He switched to a new, more hidden location. So now he had more time to continue the sick fantasy. The car had already passed and did not see them.

The girls may have dropped that clothing in the creel themselves as he forced them across. I've wondered if Libby did it to leave clues about where they were headed? She knew her father would be there any minute to look for them.

I don't think he redressed anyone ---he likely just ordered Abby to put those cloths on.

Many perps stay at the crime scene for awhile. That is the payoff for them. They want it to last as long as possible.

Good observations.
What bothers me is, if this is the case. R.A has no prior criminal record, he was in his 40-50's at the time, and no one has come forward with accusations of prior sexual abuse or odd sexual behavior. He chooses two people, not just one and they are both High risk for the offender.
Then he goes back to a normal life and does not draw much attention to himself for several years. If he had strong urges and fantasies, what kept him from committing such a crime prior and to repeat it (when he must have thought he had gotten away)?

 

[Seattle1]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1854548408528244901

 

[Seattle1]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1854388295448306048

 

[BUF]

The defense's closing arguments are finished. There is a lunch break until 1 p.m. Prosecuting attorney Nick McLeland will have the prosecution's rebuttal before Special Judge Frances Gull gives the jury its final instructions.
The prosecution's closing arguments lasted 58 minutes, while the defense's lasted 1 hour, 17 minutes.

Prosecution, defense make closing arguments | Day 18 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

 

[arielilane]

@KylaBRussell

#NEW: Both the prosecution and the defense have wrapped up their closing arguments. After lunch, we will hear the prosecution’s rebuttal and the jury will receive their final instructions before deliberation begins.



12:41 PM · Nov 7, 2024

 

[Tortoise]

Good observations.
What bothers me is, if this is the case. R.A has no prior criminal record, he was in his 40-50's at the time, and no one has come forward with accusations of prior sexual abuse or odd sexual behavior. He chooses two people, not just one and they are both High risk for the offender.
Then he goes back to a normal life and does not draw much attention to himself for several years. If he had strong urges and fantasies, what kept him from committing such a crime prior and to repeat it (when he must have thought he had gotten away)?

I think it would be unusual to find a young teen out by herself on the bridge. I believe he knew their rough ages but won't admit to it. He didn't need to worry about two with a gun in his hand. JMO

 

[BexLuth0r]

Bit rich Rozzi telling the jury to exercise common sense on one hand but then on the other expecting people to believe someone managed to return the girls and kill them in the dead of night whilst a search party was in the woods. Not to forget the headphones or aux cord that were plugged in whilst the phone did not move...

 

[m00c0w]

He says Carbaugh conflated “muddy” with “bloody.” He tells the jury they may discount a witness, calling it “credible dubiosity.” He says the jury that they can discredit Carbaugh.

Rozzi says the prosecution did not tell them about David McCain, Shelby Hicks or Cheyenne Mill because it “doesn’t fit their narrative.”

Rozzi tells the jury the prosecution didn’t include Allen’s timeline regarding how he got to the bridge.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 18 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with closing arguments from both prosecution and defense. Jury will decide the fate of suspect Richard Allen.

wishtv.com

BBM

What an odd thing to say. They added nothing to the prosecution's case, and certainly didn't take away from it. I'm not sure how it didn't fit the prosecution's narrative. Nothing they said, as far as I'm aware, contradicts the prosecution's theory of events. They were just ultimately irrelevant to the case because they didn't see anything.

JMO

 

[Tortoise]

Rozzi tells the jury the prosecution didn’t include Allen’s timeline regarding how he got to the bridge. Allen nods his head in agreement in the court room.

Rozzi suggests to the jury that they should use two pieces of evidence to exercise common sense; the two interviews from Oct. 13 and 26, 2022.

Rozzi says that Brad Weber’s gun could not be excluded as the one that cycled the cartridge found at the scene.

Rozzi says Weber had sticks in his garage and the state did not mention that. He brings up Weber’s account changed from Feb. 13.

Rozzi talks about phone calls on April 3, 2023 that the state didn’t bring up at all.

Rozzi says the state did not offer up information on the FBI leaving the investigation. He says the sticks laid on the girls’ bodies were not collected.

Rozzi brings up the Westville videos of Allen. He says Allen was in solitary and without human interaction. He says the state only wants you to hear a few words.

Rozzi says the ‘magic bullet’ is the majority of the state’s case.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 18 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with closing arguments from both prosecution and defense. Jury will decide the fate of suspect Richard Allen.

wishtv.com