VERDICT WATCH Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #214

[MiniMoo]

Just throwing this out there as it’s interesting how different people see things differently.

Hubby is a wildlife artist and carver for reference.

He took one look at the drawing of the girls and the branches and exclaimed that the killer was making “frames” for each girl.

A branch across the neck to hide, or try to hide the wounds, then the others to build a frame.

ETA: Hubby said his eye was directed inside the frame. He saw that first. He recognized framing.

Whoa! Never occurred to me but didn’t LE say st one point they thought the killer may have taken pictures?

And placed more or less the same around both girls - that frame.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[Warwick7]

Leaves blow away, sticks do not.

MOO

The area could have been filed with leaves. The sticks would prevent the leaves from blowing away. M00

And as said earlier the branches on their bodies that were toward the creek were put there to keep others from spotting them. M00

 

[Megnut]

A question - walk home still muddy & bloody?

Don't know about walking home.
But if he fell in the creek, he'd probably need an ambulance to get there!!!

IIRC he didn't live all that far away and perhaps could do so by staying close to wooded areas and away from homes and roads (having been seen once already). It would explain why the State doesn't seem to have footage of his vehicle leaving (though, again iirc, RA said he was aware of a back route, having accidentally done it one time).

If it's true that he was asleep at 6pm, then 1. He was probably exhausted by the events between 2 and 4. 2. May have been sleeping off his hangover. 3. Asleep, he wouldn't have to answer questions.

Wish we could know if RA did laundry that day. And if it was the first and only time he did.

Perhaps at the time, KA could have been aware he fell in the creek (not from the height of the bridge -- from the shoreline -- a bit of truth in every lie); she might have laundered those clothes herself, unaware. Convenient explanation for needing a new phone, too. All speculation on my part, but it seems plausible.

JMO

 

[Warwick7]

A couple pics I found in my phone.
I'm sorry RA is BG to me.
View attachment 544032

He sure wore baggy pants alot.

 

[Tortoise]

IIRC he didn't live all that far away and perhaps could do so by stating close to wooded areas and away from homes and roads (having been seen once already). It would explain why the State doesn't seem to have footage of his vehicle leaving (though, again iirc, RA said he was aware of a back route, having accidentally done it one time).

If it's true that he was asleep at 6pm, then 1. He was probably exhausted by the events between 2 and 4. 2. May hade been sleeping off his hangover. 3. Asleep, he wouldn't have to answer questions.

Wish we could know if RA did laundry that day. And if it was the first and only time he did.

Perhaps at the time, KA was aware he fell in the creek (not from the height of the bridge -- from the shoreline -- a bit if truth in every lie -- she might have laundered those clothes herself, unaware. Convenient explanation for needing a new phone, too. All speculation on my part, but it seems plausible.

JMO

Although he had that phone with him when he met LE.

 

[M. Kay]

One thing RA didn't say, but I wonder about -- if he was spooked twice that day.

Once, by the van.

And a possible second time, perhaps by searchers -- voices calling out.

Maybe the branches don't make total sense because he wasn't done. Perhaps he was, in fact, building a frame work of sorts. No time, no shovel to bury what he'd done so he could have been building up. In order ultimately to bury them up in a grave of branches, sticks and leaves, leaving them completely obscured from view.

Ran out of time. Something he couldn't have known (if a random crime with random victims) -- how quickly searchers would mobilize. He wouldn't have known they'd be missed/noticed at 3:01.

Left them mostly uncovered because of it, then shifted to the challenge of getting back to

Despite the delay and the noise -- it's a pretty simple story -- crime of opportunity, man with a mental health history, day drinking, SA driven, murder to cover it up. All within an hour of abduction.

The horror is complicated. The case isn't.

JMO

This summary is clear, concise and serves those suddenly joining the "case"/crime at this stage of prosecution. I've been following it since volunteers were called out to search for "two girls who went missing" reported on Public Radio.
After all these years I still cannot hold back my tears.

 

[NoeticSoul]

IIRC he didn't live all that far away and perhaps could do so by stating close to wooded areas and away from homes and roads (having been seen once already). It would explain why the State doesn't seem to have footage of his vehicle leaving (though, again iirc, RA said he was aware of a back route, having accidentally done it one time).

If it's true that he was asleep at 6pm, then 1. He was probably exhausted by the events between 2 and 4. 2. May hade been sleeping off his hangover. 3. Asleep, he wouldn't have to answer questions.

Wish we could know if RA did laundry that day. And if it was the first and only time he did.

Perhaps at the time, KA was aware he fell in the creek (not from the height of the bridge -- from the shoreline -- a bit if truth in every lie -- she might have laundered those clothes herself, unaware. Convenient explanation for needing a new phone, too. All speculation on my part, but it seems plausible.

JMO

Very plausible seeing as how he'd have needed an explanation for the disappearance of his phone at the time. Especially considering how she supposedly 'recycled it'. I wonder if she was ever asked if she did in fact recycle that phone and keep all the rest of the old phones and if so why?

moo

 

[justtrish]

He sure wore baggy pants alot.

This happens more I think when a man is shorter and more round in the middle. They need pants to fit the belly and with shorter legs it makes them baggier even if that isn't how that style would look on a taller man.

 

[Heaven Leigh]

He sure wore baggy pants alot.

Sure does. Prob hard to find pants for his height.

 

[Warwick7]

This happens more I think when a man is shorter and more round in the middle. They need pants to fit the belly and with shorter legs it makes them baggier even if that isn't how that style would look on a taller man.

One more proof to me that he is BG.
:0)

 

[Deleted member 229974]

It doesn't bother me the D wasn't allowed. Because Gull ruled, repeatedly, that the attorneys have failed to produce admissible evidence related to Odinism.

If he is found guilty and there is an appeal, would the fact that Gull prevented the DA from presenting their evidence regarding the “O” word, be allowed? Especially if Gull isn’t the judge in an appeal. IMO

 

[KentuckyMama]

I have plenty of maternity pants that would have fit him great. Same height, slim short legs, big belly.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I wonder how different this trial might be right now if ex-Prosecutor Robert Ives would have been put on the stand. He could have told us what the signatures were, what the crime scene looked like. what else?

 

[girlhasnoname]

The D weren't allowed to bring certain things in that they wanted to though, in this current trial.

I think they did a great job under the circumstances imo.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. R&B brought in hypothetical Satanic Panic garbage that had no nexus or physical proof tying any of the other POI's they wanted to parade around to being in Delphi that day. They wrote the most laughable, if not for the tragedy of the situation, 138 page Franks Memo that was all insinuations, maybe, I thinks and what ifs. The footnotes alone should be their own novel on how NOT to Lawyer 101.

They allowed the most sacred of documents and CS photos to be taken from their office and cast out into the internet by AB's good friend and former worker MW. Coincidental again? How would they react if it were photos of their children or grandchildren? Even worse, a man took his own life because of his connection with MW. He left behind a young family for a FB True Crime Story?

The email leaks from the Due Process Gang (most attorneys themselves) were shocking and appalling showing the disregard and professionalism of all of those included who are associated with the DT. Water seeking its own level IMO.

They started a gimmie money fund playing on the hashtag of the VICTIMS, who does that? They think they're cool and cutting edge, using SM and Internet cranks to push out their unbelievable narrative around the gag order.

Everything about them as a Defense just reeks of sleaze and underhandedness and misconduct IMO. RA fought to get them back as counsel, the SCOIN agreed. I would be content to seem them all go down in a crushing defeat.

Simply for the reason RA=BG=Killer no matter how hard they spin that he's not. RA tells us so himself many times.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

All MOO

 

[katydid23]

Does anyone doubt that RA visited (his mother in) Peru that morning, bought a 6 pack of beer, which he drank in two installments, went home for a jacket before going to the MHB?

Seems very linear, coherent. Rings true.

But we're not going to believe him when he says he saw the girls, didn't particularly care about their ages, followed them, ordered them down the hill, did something to his gun which result in a spilled cartridge, was spooked by a van and moved them across the creek where he 'cut their throats' before trying to conceal their bodies with branches?

Seems very linear, coherent. Rings true.

I believe him.

JMO

One thing RA didn't say, but I wonder about -- if he was spooked twice that day.

Once, by the van.

And a possible second time, perhaps by searchers -- voices calling out.

I've always wondered that because of the timeline.

Libby's Dad called PG around 3:30 to say he couldn't find her. A little earlier than that he was reportedly on the trail looking for them and asked a few hikers if they'd seen the girls.

So it makes logical sense to me that around 3 to 3:30 he, and maybe others, would be calling out the girl's names, loudly, hoping for a reply. He was seen leaving the trails around 4 pm. So it would fit that he was still at the cs, heard people calling ABBBYYY, LIIIBBBYYYYY....and decided to scurry like a rat. IMO

If I was looking for my kids, I'd probably go up on the bridge and yell their names, then listen for them to respond.

Dad really didn't know exactly what way to go at that point so calling out to them makes sense to me. He probably thought they met up w/friends and were under the bridge or just off the trail somewhere, 'chillin', as kids do.

My heart goes out to him because I'm sure he went from slightly annoyed and frustrated because the girls weren't at the drop off point or answering the phone, to slowly becoming more and more worried. It's a nightmare he has never awakened from.

Maybe the branches don't make total sense because he wasn't done. Perhaps he was, in fact, building a frame work of sorts. No time, no shovel to bury what he'd done so he could have been building up. In order ultimately to bury them up in a grave of branches, sticks and leaves, leaving them completely obscured from view.

Ran out of time. Something he couldn't have known (if a random crime with random victims) -- how quickly searchers would mobilize. He wouldn't have known they'd be missed/noticed at 3:01.

Left them mostly uncovered because of it, then shifted to the challenge of getting back to car unseen. So close too.

Had he been arrested in 2017, all these conspiracies would have had very short legs.

Despite the delay and the noise -- it's a pretty simple story -- crime of opportunity, man with a mental health history, day drinking, SA driven, murder to cover it up. All within an hour of abduction.

The horror is complicated. The case isn't.

JMO

 

[joe jones]

I’m not sure a hung jury will work out in RA’s favor. There is probably a higher chance of conviction if he’s tried a second time because the prosecution will be able to prepare for the very narrow defenses the defense has brought up. The prosecution went with the same facts they’ve had the entire time, so I’m not sure getting another swing at it will benefit the defense at all. Many people that believe RA is innocent have said it time and time again - they were waiting for more than what was in the PCA or public knowledge. If this goes to a second trial, the prosecution only has ground to gain and the defense ground to lose.

One ought to hope for not guilty so he’s released, or conviction so appeals can start right away.

JMO

A second trial means defence can investigate the things they may not have had the money for this time, such as how many groups Dr Walla was in, what posts she made, was she in any groups that were discussing the white van, they could also check BW invoices, bank accounts, or any document that may show he was doing his ATM work to show he was not driving home at time he said he was, plus look at his phone as he mentioned during his testimony he used his phone to work out what time he went home in 2017, they could hire there own blood spatter expert, they could get the expert to test the gun and cartridge, they were severely hampered by lack of funds, second time around they ,ay be able to get more funding to investigate ,more things

 

[MiniMoo]

I doubt that since a Carhart style jacket and jeans is a lot of men’s non working day attire and sometimes work clothes for laborers. Shirt and footwear and out the door. If it’s cold, a sweatshirt under said Carhart jacket. It’s ubiquitous all across the northern states coast to coast.

Outside the Delphi courthouse the other day with everyone wearing clothes for cooler or cold weather. Lots of dark clothes including a few blue coats or jackets.

Note: Faces cannot really be seen and it will blur if you try to enlarge it.

Spoiler: Delphi Court House - Cold Weather Clothes.

 

[Poedelini]

I've never been so nervous about a verdict.

 

[MassGuy]

I wonder how different this trial might be right now if ex-Prosecutor Robert Ives would have been put on the stand. He could have told us what the signatures were, what the crime scene looked like. what else?

We know that the crime scene looked like from the testimony at trial. He was looking at the same thing.

Two signatures right off the bat were the sticks (especially the ones across their necks), and the fact that Abby was dressed in Libby’s clothes.

Eta: Another signature is the removal of items of clothing from the scene.

Both of those things were not necessary to commit the crime, but they were necessary to the killer.

 

[ClearAhead]

There were coworkers who thought him unpleasant, creepy - but MOO that isnt unusual enough to spark suspicion.

Thanks to the FBI setting up billboards across the country the heat was off anyone local. JMO