VERDICT WATCH Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #214

[lonetraveler]

I think I agree - I just don’t know how hard it’s been for them during deliberations- moo

Yeah, for all we know, the deliberation maybe got very heated and they needed a timeout.

 

[lonetraveler]

So, who thought this was going to be a slam dunk quick deliberation and verdict regardless of the outcome?

Not me, I predicted a hung jury very early on.

 

[TTF14]

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

Thank you. I was hoping for the actual law, but she didn't cite it in her ruling.

 

[fred&edna]

MOO the extractor and ejector (metal) marks on a brass (metal) bullet is exactly metallurgy.

Doesn't a forensic firearms expert use more than metallurgy for their results?

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Yeah, for all we know, the deliberation maybe got very heated and they needed a timeout.

I definitely need a time out now and again- I can imagine things being intense!

 

[Boxer]

That’s Libby’s height. Suspect is listed between 5’6” to 5’10”.

I deleted the poster above.
You are right.
I remember the discussions on height snd is he 5'6" in shoes etc. got wires crossed.

 

[Salah11]

What happens with a hung jury?

 

[cherrybier]

I really hope at least a few jurors took copious notes of every single timeframe/timestamp/timeline testified to. I hope they are cross referencing it all. Especially Cecil's findings, Eldredge's findings, and that health app data.

JMO

Same. The timeline doesn't work IMO.

 

[fred&edna]

“Dr. William Tobin is an expert in the field of metallurgy and has been recognized as an expert in that field by several courts of various jurisdictions,” Judge Gull wrote. “Dr. Tobin is not firearms expert, has had no training in firearms identification, and has never conducted firearms examination.”

Gull – a special judge assigned to the Carroll County case out of Allen County – specifically concluded that Tobin could not testify because he never examined the evidence in this specific case. She wrote that, because of this, his testimony “lacks relevance.”

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-judge-rules-defense-teams-metallurgist-cannot-testify/

 

[Marie A]

Having never been on a jury, can someone elaborate how the deliberation process works?
Do they all have an idea to start? Then methodically go through the evidence? Or is it going through the evidence and then coming to individual conclusions afterwards?

I recently served on a jury for a federal criminal case.
When we were together the elected foreman asked us all to write “guilty” “innocent” or “undecided” anonymously on a slip of paper. He then read the slips out loud and tallied them. There were quite a few “undecided” votes and then we started talking through why they were undecided, what specific questions there were, going back and looking at evidence.
We had a question that was handed by the bailiff to the judge and we received an answer not long after.
There was a copious amount of evidence that was damning and we did find the defendant guilty. It was within an hour or two max.

I sat through an entire murder trial (as part of the audience) where there was DNA evidence from a well-preserved rape kit as well as other strong evidence against the defendant and that jury returned a guilty verdict within a few hours.

This would be a much much harder case to deliberate than the case I served on or the case I sat through.

I’m a little nervous because historically (as we all know) when a jury returns a verdict quickly it is likely a guilty verdict.
I think this may take a while.
They are likely battling through some big questions.
Richard Allen is undoubtedly a liar but this is a case without much solid evidence.
The Scott Peterson trial took 9 days before a guilty verdict. Another liar.

The fact that there were 10 old phones at his house but not his 2017 phone is a definite red flag. I wonder if the navy Carhartt jacket was a replacement for the one he was wearing that fateful day. I tend to think he disposed of the one he wore and replaced it with a new one.
I don’t think he knew he dropped the bullet or he would have gotten rid of the gun.

I think he’s definitely guilty but unsure if all twelve jurors will feel that he’s guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I really hope they do.
All IMHO

 

[TTF14]

Same. The timeline doesn't work IMO.

Do we know if there were any published exhibits that detail the various timelines and data? Something they can look at in the jury room? Did any of these witnesses come with PowerPoints, etc. that were entered as exhibits?

 

[al66pine]

Jurors' Phones & Communications

No phones or contact with family now that they are in deliberations.

@Tortoise Yes, before jury deliberations start, bailiff collects jurors' phones, computers, & devices, per below.
Judge may authorize some limited communications (e.g., transportation, child care) which is monitored, per below.

"RULE 26. FINAL INSTRUCTIONS"
"(b) The court shall instruct the bailiff to collect and store all computers, cell phones or other electronic communication devices from jurors upon commencing deliberations. The court may authorize appropriate communications (i.e. arranging for transportation, childcare, etc.) that are not related to the case and may require such communications to be monitored by the bailiff. Such devices shall be returned upon completion of deliberations or when the court permits separation during deliberations. Courts that prohibit such devices in the courthouse are not required to provide this instruction. All courts shall still admonish jurors regarding the limitations associated with the use of such devices if jurors are permitted to separate during deliberations."

ETA: Indiana Jury Rules
in.gov/courts/rules/jury

 

[Deleted member 296739]

What happens with a hung jury?

P decides if they are going to retry the case, if not, he goes free, if yes they start over with new trial- that’s my understanding- but IANAL -

 

[Boxer]

Doesn't a forensic firearms expert used more than metallurgy for their results?

For a fired round yes, where there are explosion and barrel signatures, but the metal strike marks on the round from an extractor hook pulling the round into the chamber, then an ejector hook forcing the round out of the chamber are at a microscopic level exactly a metallurgist's expertise.

 

[Salah11]

P decides if they are going to retry the case, if not, he goes free, if yes they start over with new trial- that’s my understanding- but IANAL -

So he would stay locked up if they go for another trial?

I can not envision him being welcome very many places with this hanging over his head. IMO

 

[rogue ant]

What happens with a hung jury?

IANAL but I believe RA could be tried again.

 

[Warwick7]

What happens with a hung jury?

The defendant is tried again.

 

[fred&edna]

I'm likely wrong because I don't know beans about US law. But Rule 403 reminds me of the reasons Judge Gull decided not to allow some defense "evidence". Actually, maybe I just like Rule 403 and I think it applies... especially the bbm part. lol

Indiana Rule 403 states that relevant evidence can be excluded if its probative value is outweighed by the risk of unfair prejudice, confusion, or other factors: Misleading the jury, Undue delay, Wasting time, and Presenting cumulative evidence needlessly

 

[wtiger]

not proven
not shown to be guilty beyond doubt
not even physically placed at the crime scene
not identified as bridge guy by several witnesses who actually saw bridge guy
only proven to be present at the crime scene by his own report
5 years to even be classed as a person of interest

"you want to know what we know...and one day you will"????

yeah - we know next to nothing and you are gonna get blamed!

sorry for all the believers but i've seen nothing to make me think that this guy is guilty

 

[somequestions]

This should be a simple case. The defendant confessed over 60 times with at least one detail it seems like only the killer should know. I still wonder about this case because the height of bridge guy in Liberty German's phone video looks taller than Richard Allen. The irony is that it is Liberty German's phone video that still gives me doubts about this case. I wonder if it is giving the jury doubts too?