CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #7

[musicaljoke]

Really well written article surprisingly from the daily mail. Felt it was extremely carefully worded

Even so far as to state the neighbours talking after they had given their statements. Unless my understanding of it is wrong .

Shocked to see the rcmp are not planning another search until spring 2026 .

I wonder why it states the organisation was contacted by " associates " of Maleyha and it is written in the inverted commas exactly as I have written. Sure that could be Daniel as with the ending of the relationship that's all he is now an associate jmho .

What do others make of the article

Spring is a good time to search in the forest, right after the snow melts and before the leaves come out. It's difficult to see the forest floor in the fall when the leaves are covering the ground and the cedars are flagging. There is just way too much forest litter. There will still be leaves on the low growing brush type of vegetation until the snow comes. So spring gives the best opportunity. It's also the same time of year that the children disappeared, so it might be the easiest time to see the same potential hiding places that they may have found.

 

[Bigditch]

The picture of them in their snowsuits. Beautiful little faces.

 

[AnnieOakley123]

Spring is a good time to search in the forest, right after the snow melts and before the leaves come out. It's difficult to see the forest floor in the fall when the leaves are covering the ground and the cedars are flagging. There is just way too much forest litter. There will still be leaves on the low growing brush type of vegetation until the snow comes. So spring gives the best opportunity. It's also the same time of year that the children disappeared, so it might be the easiest time to see the same potential hiding places that they may have found.

The RCMP sent in highly trained cadaver and search & rescue dogs and handlers. The children are not in the woods.

 

[musicaljoke]

The RCMP sent in highly trained cadaver and search & rescue dogs and handlers. The children are not in the woods.

Do I understand that you are saying there is no need to search the woods?

The cadaver dogs searched a couple of places where there was a higher chance of finding the children. The dogs did not find the children. According to the RCMP, this suggests the dogs were not in the presence of human remains odor, but it doesn't rule out their presence.

Most of the forest has not been searched by cadaver dogs. They didn't do a grid search.

Where are Jack and Lily? Cadaver dogs fail to detect traces of missing N.S. children

RCMP teams trained in detecting human remains searched at the home where the children went missing and in the surrounding area

ca.news.yahoo.com

 

[abanddb123]

So I'm confused maybe? So their remains were there temporarily? Moo

 

[su5ie]

We know dogs are not infallible but how good are helicopters using thermal imaging at picking up life in dense forests . Seems they have a high success rate . I'm extremely surprised this method of searching picked up nothing . And I seem to recall they captured over 20,000 images of the area using these thermal drones

Unless the kids died quickly say by drowning they would have no heat to pick up


Edited to add some links

Thermal Drones for Public Safety: Revolutionizing Nighttime Search and Rescue Operations | Drone Nerds Enterprise

With their ability to detect heat signatures, thermal drones for public safety transform nighttime search and rescue missions by offering enhanced visibility.

enterprise.dronenerds.com

https://www.aaas.org/news/rescue-drone-sees-through-thick-forest-track-people

Search and Rescue Drones | SAR Drones | DSLRPros

Search and rescue drones help you survey large areas quickly and efficiently in response to a disaster earthquake, a missing hiker, a boater in distress, and more!

www.dslrpros.com

How Thermal Drones Support Night Operations in Law Enforcement

How Thermal Drones Support Night Operations in Law Enforcement.

candrone.com

 

[musicaljoke]

We know dogs are not infallible but how good are helicopters using thermal imaging at picking up life in dense forests . Seems they have a high success rate . I'm extremely surprised this method of searching picked up nothing . And I seem to recall they captured over 20,000 images of the area using these thermal drones

Unless the kids died quickly say by drowning they would have no heat to pick up


Edited to add some links

Thermal Drones for Public Safety: Revolutionizing Nighttime Search and Rescue Operations | Drone Nerds Enterprise

With their ability to detect heat signatures, thermal drones for public safety transform nighttime search and rescue missions by offering enhanced visibility.

enterprise.dronenerds.com

https://www.aaas.org/news/rescue-drone-sees-through-thick-forest-track-people

Search and Rescue Drones | SAR Drones | DSLRPros

Search and rescue drones help you survey large areas quickly and efficiently in response to a disaster earthquake, a missing hiker, a boater in distress, and more!

www.dslrpros.com

How Thermal Drones Support Night Operations in Law Enforcement

How Thermal Drones Support Night Operations in Law Enforcement.

candrone.com

What are the chances that the drone won't pick up any heat or won't find the person if they are there in the woods?

"So the two primary sensors that are used is an optical camera, and the second is an infrared sensor. Both sensors have to be able to see the ground. In other words the [tree] canopy will stop them. Easy to understand how canopy would stop a visual sensor, but it turns out infrared heat is also stopped by leaf cover.

"The second part is what is the visibility of the subject … for a normal camera, if there's high contrast, pretty good chance of seeing it. If there's low contrast, even with no canopy, can be very difficult to spot. And for infrared that starts to get into heat patterns, you know if they're severely hypothermic and at the same temperature as the environment, then there's little chance to be spotted. Certainly if they're under canopy, they're not going to be spotted either."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/missing-person-expert-lansdowne-station-search-1.7531338

 

[MistyWaters]

Do I understand that you are saying there is no need to search the woods?

The cadaver dogs searched a couple of places where there was a higher chance of finding the children. The dogs did not find the children. According to the RCMP, this suggests the dogs were not in the presence of human remains odor, but it doesn't rule out their presence.

Most of the forest has not been searched by cadaver dogs. They didn't do a grid search.

Where are Jack and Lily? Cadaver dogs fail to detect traces of missing N.S. children

RCMP teams trained in detecting human remains searched at the home where the children went missing and in the surrounding area

ca.news.yahoo.com

I agree, it’s possible the bodies of the children are in the woods but not found. Cadaver dogs don’t race off to where they detect the smell of human remains, they have to be led in to search areas. The RCMP had stated the dogs would be taken to areas identified as the “highest probability” of finding the children. It wasn’t a full out grid search so there’s a possibility they just weren’t found.

 

[musicaljoke]

We know dogs are not infallible but how good are helicopters using thermal imaging at picking up life in dense forests . Seems they have a high success rate . I'm extremely surprised this method of searching picked up nothing . And I seem to recall they captured over 20,000 images of the area using these thermal drones

Unless the kids died quickly say by drowning they would have no heat to pick up

From the timeline in the link below, the children went missing on Friday morning. Four thermal imaging drones were brought in on Monday, by which time the children's small bodies might not have had any heat to image even if the drones could see through the dense vegetation.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/missing-children-lilly-jack-sullivan-timeline-1.7535707

 

[su5ie]

From the timeline in the link below, the children went missing on Friday morning. Four thermal imaging drones were brought in on Monday, by which time the children's small bodies might not have had any heat to image even if the drones could see through the dense vegetation.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/missing-children-lilly-jack-sullivan-timeline-1.7535707

Bit late to the search then if they only pick up heat from living people. I thought they were brought in sooner ,seems like a missed opportunity unfortunately

 

[musicaljoke]

Bit late to the search then if they only pick up heat from living people. I thought they were brought in sooner ,seems like a missed opportunity unfortunately

If I recall correctly, there were heavy rains on Saturday or Sunday or both days. The rain defracts the light so thermal imagining doesn't work well.

 

[Dreamcherry]

Electronic records from companies in Montreal, Toronto and Halifax. Only Canadian companies, that’s unusual in itself. Doesn’t say which one as both DB and MBM were investigated right from the onset.

So I’ll take a wild guess at what I think is regulated by Canadian law such as online payday loans or online gambling.
JMO

My first thought was banks, but those are also good guesses imo!

 

[Dreamcherry]

Re: not filing taxes and leaving money on the table, it could be as simple as no one in the household being functional enough to accomplish that task during that time period. I literally went through that with my ex when he stopped working due to disability. He couldn't even function at a basic level, and didn't file his taxes for years, and I was too burnt out from being his caregiver to have the energy to even care. So we left a lot of money on the table that we desperately needed because dealing with it was just too much. Even the simplest things can seem insurmountable when you're in a bad enough place, and it kinda looks like they were also in a bad place, imo.

 

[Slebby]

Re: not filing taxes and leaving money on the table, it could be as simple as no one in the household being functional enough to accomplish that task during that time period. I literally went through that with my ex when he stopped working due to disability. He couldn't even function at a basic level, and didn't file his taxes for years, and I was too burnt out from being his caregiver to have the energy to even care. So we left a lot of money on the table that we desperately needed because dealing with it was just too much. Even the simplest things can seem insurmountable when you're in a bad enough place, and it kinda looks like they were also in a bad place, imo.

Good point. In my household, one of hubby’s professional designations is accounting. He has handled all our filing needs for decades. If I had to start filing on my own, I’d need some time to get up to speed. Worse, if I was dealing with other stresses in my life.
Perhaps DM’s former partner had handled those administrative tasks for him when they were together.
IMO

 

[su5ie]

If I recall correctly, there were heavy rains on Saturday or Sunday or both days. The rain defracts the light so thermal imagining doesn't work well.

Imo seen as searchers were dealing with two very young very vulnerable children, the choppers and drones should have been up Friday. Latest early hours of Saturday. There was a window of sunshine as mbm stated in her only interview that she suspected the kids were wet and cold but the sun would now warm them .

Hindsight is obviously where I'm coming from but seen as the memo was sent to higher ups almost immediately imo the rcmp didn't act fast enough in regards to equipment and technology that could have located living lost children if indeed that's what they were looking at. They knew the difficulties facing them given the terrain, so eye in the sky would have been a better option sooner .

I do seem to recall DM stating helicopters were his reason for not hearing the direction of the alleged scream that he thought may have been lilly ,I also recall him saying he was able to outrun the chopper . So there had to have been some helicopter activity on Friday morning as he also stated the rcmp asked him not to go back into the woods when he returned from searching initially.

All jmho and from memory recall of statements and events, all previously linked throughout the threads

Edited for grammatical errors

 

[MistyWaters]

Imo seen as searchers were dealing with two very young very vulnerable children, the choppers and drones should have been up Friday. Latest early hours of Saturday. There was a window of sunshine as mbm stated in her only interview that she suspected the kids were wet and cold but the sun would now warm them .

Hindsight is obviously where I'm coming from but seen as the memo was sent to higher ups almost immediately imo the rcmp didn't act fast enough in regards to equipment and technology that could have located living lost children if indeed that's what they were looking at. They knew the difficulties facing them given the terrain, so eye in the sky would have been a better option sooner .

I do seem to recall DM stating helicopters were his reason for not hearing the direction of the alleged scream that he thought may have been lilly ,I also recall him saying he was able to outrun the chopper . So there had to have been some helicopter activity on Friday morning as he also stated the rcmp asked him not to go back into the woods when he returned from searching initially.

All jmho and from memory recall of statements and events, all previously linked throughout the threads

Edited for grammatical errors

This video is from Day 3 and it mentioned heat detecting technology being used with two DNR helicopters and four drones to provide more flexibility in search areas although it doesn’t say what day that began. In the video it’s also evident how much rain had fallen.

 

[musicaljoke]

Imo seen as searchers were dealing with two very young very vulnerable children, the choppers and drones should have been up Friday. Latest early hours of Saturday. There was a window of sunshine as mbm stated in her only interview that she suspected the kids were wet and cold but the sun would now warm them .

Hindsight is obviously where I'm coming from but seen as the memo was sent to higher ups almost immediately imo the rcmp didn't act fast enough in regards to equipment and technology that could have located living lost children if indeed that's what they were looking at. They knew the difficulties facing them given the terrain, so eye in the sky would have been a better option sooner .

I do seem to recall DM stating helicopters were his reason for not hearing the direction of the alleged scream that he thought may have been lilly ,I also recall him saying he was able to outrun the chopper . So there had to have been some helicopter activity on Friday morning as he also stated the rcmp asked him not to go back into the woods when he returned from searching initially.

All jmho and from memory recall of statements and events, all previously linked throughout the threads

Edited for grammatical errors

There were helicopters and a drone up on Friday, but the drones with heat sensing technology show up on the timeline on Monday. I don't accuse the RCMP of failing to put up the correct equipment. I believe that they put everything they could into finding the children. Sometimes equipment that would be needed might be in use somewhere else across the country, or the conditions are not conducive to its use. It would be just as frustrating for the RCMP as for anyone.

 

[musicaljoke]

I suspect I am not alone in hoping and believing that the children will be found together. There seems to be some comfort in that thought.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I was racking my brain trying to think of a reason for LE to seek out the electronic records. It occurred to me that DM had told friends he was getting into investing (Aug 8 Globe and Mail, paywalled)

Months after Nova Scotia children vanished, a clearer picture emerges of their lives before their disappearance

There are still few answers about missing siblings Jack and Lilly Sullivan, but trauma and stigma have left their families and community farther apart

www.theglobeandmail.com

Archived version:

https://archive.ph/ktf5s

“Daniel, however, denied having money problems, and had claimed to friends that he was getting into investing and turning his life around after a divorce”

Is it possible DM had started day trading or engaging in other home based investment ventures? And perhaps this activity is the reason LE sought electronic records from Halifax, Montreal and Toronto?

IMHO

Perhaps not day trading, my guess is investing in crypto.

 

[su5ie]

There were helicopters and a drone up on Friday, but the drones with heat sensing technology show up on the timeline on Monday. I don't accuse the RCMP of failing to put up the correct equipment. I believe that they put everything they could into finding the children. Sometimes equipment that would be needed might be in use somewhere else across the country, or the conditions are not conducive to its use. It would be just as frustrating for the RCMP as for anyone.

I agree and I did say hindsight which I'm sure the rcmp officers also would use to reflect on those intial days and what could have been done quicker . But that's the thing with hindsight, it gives us lessons for the future but no control over the past .

The investigation into finding lilly and jack was quoted in msm as being the biggest search effort seen in years with all manner of resources thrown at the case and no expense spared .

One thing I will say is that a search effort is only as good as the clarity in which the searchers can see through that which they are searching . In the terrain they faced there is nothing they could see into that would allow a good open view , and unfortunately the only thing that could plausibly see through all that entangled flora was a heat sensing device ,so I do think this should have been the priority within the golden or twilight period when the children medically could have been alive . On day 3 the chances were extremely slim and while noting I feel no expense should be spared when searching in particular for young children the probability had decreased to the point it was nearly a fruitless exercise or disheartening to only have the availability of the tech when the law of averages would tell you heat would have well left their tiny bodies . Jmho