Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #199

[m00c0w]

Are the jurors allowed to ask questions? If so, how does that work? Do they get asked immediately at the end of a witness's testimony? Are they saved until the end of the day? Do they have to wait until one or both sides have rested? Or, ???

What I have seen happen before is that jurors are able to write down questions that get vetted by the judge during the witness's testimony. At the end of their testimony, the jurors' clarifying questions are posed to the witness. I'm not sure what the procedure is here, but I would imagine it would be something similar.

JMO

 

[Bbgiraffe]

Is this true -- no RA DNA? Who did the DNA belong to? I recall from long ago that investigators claimed they had DNA!

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/state-defense-deliver-opening-statements-in-delphi-murders-trial/

10/18/24

Baldwin walked the jury through the defense team’s version: that Bridge Guy and perhaps others accosted the girls at the south end of the bridge, loaded them into a vehicle and drove away, only to return twelve hours later to kill the victims near Deer Creek.

The attorney said fruitless searches of the area the night before, activity on Libby’s cell phone twelve hours after investigators believe the girls were dead and the complexity of the crime showed the murders would be beyond the ability of one man of modest stature to carry out with two different knives.

He said there was no DNA, social media or forensic evidence linking Allen to the girls’ deaths.

The search warrants continued the following day on Oct. 14, 2022, when ISP troopers searched a Ford Focus at ISP District 14’s post in West Lafayette. The search, which docs show occurred around 2 p.m., yielded three items:

• A cutting of carpeted area under a spare tire in the Ford Focus
• Swabbing from the driver’s lap belt and the driver’s shoulder belt in the Ford Focus
• Swabbing from the passenger side carpeted floorboards

Boots, knives and car carpeting: What police seized from Delphi murder suspect’s home

DELPHI, Ind. — Among the over 110 documents unsealed Wednesday in the Delphi murders was a search warrant for suspect Richard Allen’s home and a list of what Indiana State Police seized. Alle…

fox59.com

I have just been curious about the carpet removed from the trunk of his car. Seems pretty specific. Do they just randomly remove carpet to test or would that have been due to a luminol or blue star reaction in his trunk? I feel like RA's attorneys are good at making statements that create doubt, but may not have anything tangible to back these statements up. I mean, the hair from Abby's hands was creatively framed in the media and i have a feeling the claim that video will show RA didn't say "guys, down the hill" is creative framing as well, since i am pretty sure investigators never said that was the statement made by the perpetrator. That it was edited. So i am going to reserve judgement on anything the defense and prosecution say unless it is backed up by hard evidence.

 

[Jade]

In that hour did Baldwin make any peep about an all-important alibi for RA?

Or did he indicate they plan to just glom unattractively onto the hapless witnesses instead of themselves simply providing RA an alibi for their chosen timeline?



imo

 

[m00c0w]

In that hour did Baldwin make any peep about an all-important alibi for RA?

Or did he indicate they plan to just glom unattractively onto the hapless witnesses instead of themselves simply providing RA an alibi for their chosen timeline?



imo

His alibi is "I wasn't there".

JMO

 

[joe jones]

I don't think defence is saying someone from LG family is involved, the hair is one example of what they say is LE not doing a very good job, that it took years before they tested it when it obviously should have been tested first week, and when tested it was not related to the crime but LE didn't know that until it was tested

Makes it easier to understand how they filed the self reported statement of RA and the man who took report probably thought it had been followed up on so it sat in a file somewhere for years,
I am interested in the problems that the defence alluded to in openings between some LE and FBI
And am interested in testimony about where his daughter and wife were and did they see him that day

 

[Tealgrove]

Wow!

So the DT is sticking to their alternate theory that the girls were whisked away and then brought back at approx 4:30 am?

Thats all they’ve got? They really want to go that route?

Oh boy!!!

 

[MassGuy]

Boots, knives and car carpeting: What police seized from Delphi murder suspect’s home

DELPHI, Ind. — Among the over 110 documents unsealed Wednesday in the Delphi murders was a search warrant for suspect Richard Allen’s home and a list of what Indiana State Police seized. Alle…

fox59.com

I have just been curious about the carpet removed from the trunk of his car. Seems pretty specific. Do they just randomly remove carpet to test or would that have been due to a luminol or blue star reaction in his trunk? I feel like RA's attorneys are good at making statements that create doubt, but may not have anything tangible to back these statements up. I mean, the hair from Abby's hands was creatively framed in the media and i have a feeling the claim that video will show RA didn't say "guys, down the hill" is creative framing as well, since i am pretty sure investigators never said that was the statement made by the perpetrator. That it was edited. So i am going to reserve judgement on anything the defense and prosecution say unless it is backed up by hard evidence.

Allen kept his gun with one in the chamber. That’s not unusual, but it explains why he would have ejected one when he racked his gun.

• A .40 caliber S&W cartridge found in the Sig Sauer

 

[photographer4]

The defense will damn themselves in court to the jury’s eyes if they are trying to implicate the family’s involvement.

jmo

I didn't get this from that hair issue - I got that they believe the investigation itself was lacking if the hair wasn't tested at the beginning when it was first found. That's a glaring issue imo - why did they NOT test it? At what point DID it get tested and by whom? EG: did the Defense finally have it tested in preparation for trial or did the State realize this glaring omission and test it themselves at some point? Pretty big deal here imo.

 

[iamshadow21]

Wow!

So the DT is sticking to their alternate theory that the girls were whisked away and then brought back at approx 4:30 am?

Thats all they’ve got? They really want to go that route?

Oh boy!!!

Yep, that's what they're going with, it seems.

I assume it's because they can't argue that RA wasn't there at the bridge, but later in the evening, there are alibi witnesses who can swear he wasn't holding two girls hostage.

So, if they can convince the jury that the girls died later or were taken from the location for hours and returned later, then it couldn't be the defendant.

MOO

 

[Tealgrove]

My understanding from the available paraphrases from Baldwin’s opener is that the hair WAS tested and identified as familial to Libby. Nobody from Libby’s family was tested for the precise match.

Do you have a link for that or is that your own opinion. Where is it said no one from Libby’s family was tested.

TIA

 

[twall]

11:45 p.m. The search was called off just before midnight. Family members continued to scour the area searching for Libby & Abby. At this point in time, Sheriff Laezenby told WRTV they had no reason to believe that the girls were in imminent danger and crews would resume their search in the morning.

DELPHI TIMELINE: The search for Libby & Abby's killer

On February 13, 2017, Liberty "Libby" German and Abigail "Abby" Williams went for a hike near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi. Here's a look at what has happened since that day.

www.wrtv.com

BP testified they went home between the 2/13 evening search and 2/14 morning search.

Becky said the family members eventually went home and joined the search parties on the morning on Feb. 14, 2017.

Libby German's dad, sister take the stand | Day 1 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial is starting for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

 

[WildHuncher]

I don't think defence is saying someone from LG family is involved, the hair is one example of what they say is LE not doing a very good job, that it took years before they tested it when it obviously should have been tested first week, and when tested it was not related to the crime but LE didn't know that until it was tested

Makes it easier to understand how they filed the self reported statement of RA and the man who took report probably thought it had been followed up on so it sat in a file somewhere for years,
I am interested in the problems that the defence alluded to in openings between some LE and FBI
And am interested in testimony about where his daughter and wife were and did they see him that day

Alternate and perhaps more likely interpretation of so far available data: LE never in all those years tested female relatives of Libby for an exact match. But that doesn’t testify nearly as strongly to Keystone Cops levels of incompetence.

 

[MassGuy]

Do you have a link for that or is that your own opinion. Where is it said no one from Libby’s family was tested.

TIA

It’s logical that Libby’s family was not tested if they’re calling it a familial match, but I don’t think we know that for a fact.

They were desperate for any DNA evidence, and I can’t imagine it wasn’t immediately tested. The results would have told them that it wasn’t from the killer.

 

[tlcya]

Do you have a link for that or is that your own opinion. Where is it said no one from Libby’s family was tested.

TIA

it was tweeted as per the defense in their opening statements.

you know, the same ones that said they would offer EVIDENCE that the girls were taken from the park murdered elsewhere and their bodies returned to the park in the wee early morning hours.

 

[MiniMoo]

Does anyone here understand bullets at all?

If an unspent bullet is compared to several spent bullets is it really scientifically possible to identify them being one and the same or even from the same batch or gun.

I am aware there are different opinions about bullets and forensic science in crime cases.

For me, however, I would think an unspent bullet would be a bit different to a fired bullet.

Does anyone know anything about bullets because I really don't.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[Vern]

11:45 p.m. The search was called off just before midnight. Family members continued to scour the area searching for Libby & Abby. At this point in time, Sheriff Laezenby told WRTV they had no reason to believe that the girls were in imminent danger and crews would resume their search in the morning.

DELPHI TIMELINE: The search for Libby & Abby's killer

On February 13, 2017, Liberty "Libby" German and Abigail "Abby" Williams went for a hike near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi. Here's a look at what has happened since that day.

www.wrtv.com

Yes, indeed. The search was scaled back due to terrain safety concerns after it became dark on 13 Feb 2017.

BUT, LE did continue to man the surroundings of the MHB and it's trails throughout the night with a full search resuming in the morning. Thread 1.

Links and photos:

MISSING: Two 13-year-old Carroll Co. girls

Two 13-year-old Carroll County girls are missing after they were dropped off to go hiking Monday afternoon.

www.wrtv.com

2 bodies found during search for teen girls

An hour after Delphi AssistantFire Chief Curtis Borden toldRTV6two missing teen girls from Carroll County were found, calling it "not good," authorities said at a press conference two bodies had been found in the area they went missing.

www.wrtv.com

DELPHI TIMELINE: Disappearance and murders of Liberty German and Abigail Williams

The mystery surrounding a double murder continues over a month after the bodies of Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, were found. </p><p><strong>MORE </strong>| <a…

www.wrtv.com

 

[WildHuncher]

Do you have a link for that or is that your own opinion. Where is it said no one from Libby’s family was tested.

TIA

"In seven years, they never turned over the mother or sister's hair to be tested for DNA," Baldwin said.

Libby German's dad, sister take the stand | Day 1 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial is starting for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

 

[TwinkieDefense]

Oct 18, 2024 article

https://www.ozarksfirst.com/news/national-news/ap-murder-trial-to-begin-in-small-indiana-town-in-2017-killings-of-two-teenage-girls/

 

[gremlin444]

ETA: From MSM dated 2/23/2017

Carroll County sheriff discusses Delphi murder investigation, says DNA evidence ‘fast-tracked’

DELPHI, Ind. – The investigation into the murders of two Delphi teenagers is a complicated one, and Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said investigators are doing everything they can to solve th…

fox59.com

Leazenby did say investigators have asked for DNA evidence to be “fast-tracked.”

“I can’t go into the specifics because of the ongoing (investigation), that’s being expedited as best as it can be done,” he said.

Good find, @Seattle1.

So, DNA testing was being done in the first week(s) after the murders. Presumably on the hair?

 

[Justice101]

I didn't get this from that hair issue - I got that they believe the investigation itself was lacking if the hair wasn't tested at the beginning when it was first found. That's a glaring issue imo - why did they NOT test it? At what point DID it get tested and by whom? EG: did the Defense finally have it tested in preparation for trial or did the State realize this glaring omission and test it themselves at some point? Pretty big deal here imo.

They did test it and found it came from a female member of the family.

No need to test any further. Or was BG really a woman???

Oh.. please.... defense is spit balling.