Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #201

[Melted]

I can’t imagine how tough today must of been for the families seeing those photos of their baby girls like that.

 

[Justice101]

I would certainly hope they would cover private body parts in the photos. For basic respect to the victims.

It serves absolutely no useful purpose in this case to show that.

 

[Kudzuu]

I wonder if there was much more to his plan…was he walking them toward….a place, a shed/barn…somewhere and the spot they ended up was not the intention. The girls maybe made a huge attempt to fight back and it ended badly. Just thinking through possibilities. Just seems like his intentions would/could have been more but wasn’t able to “follow thought” due to an interruption of his plan - possibly that fighting back when he thought he had complete control.

JMO

There was much discussion about a red building at the back of RL’s property early on. Maybe he was headed there and got spooked.

 

[mrjitty]

it seems rather a big problem that a man resembling bridge guy was seen on the road covered in blood not far from the crime scene

 

[ClearAhead]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848406833460896057

I always wondered if RL, showing the media the crime scene afew days later, was mistaken about the location. He described the area as ‘pristine’, there was a light leaf litter, nothing out of the ordinary.

 

[Melted]

I would certainly hope they would cover private body parts in the photos. For basic respect to the victims.

It serves absolutely no useful purpose in this case to show that.

I agree, unless there are wounds to those specific areas there is no point in not covering them.

 

[Justice101]

Anybody observe Kathy Allen's reaction or was she not in the courtroom at the time?

Also, did any of the jurors look over at RA to gauge his reaction err... non-reaction?

Someone posted on here that RA did not react... just took notes at the time.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I have followed this case and am horrified by what happened to these girls- and if I’m going to take a hypothetical innocent until proven guilty narrative, is there another plausible explanation for the evidence that we have to date - regardless of defense motions and prosecution mistakes- is there a narrative that explains the evidence and yet doesn’t assume that the current accused individual on trial is obviously guilty?

In the quest for justice for the girls, I have to wonder if the “masses” would be willing to have the wrong person held accountable vs no one held accountable

Does our desire for closure and accountability on occasion obscure our quest for justice- would we rather a man be falsely convicted? Or the case remain unsolved? Just thinking out loud, towards no one in particular- but thinking about some recent dinner table conversations… moo

 

[00stevenm]

I have followed this case and am horrified by what happened to these girls- and if I’m going to take a hypothetical innocent until proven guilty narrative, is there another plausible explanation for the evidence that we have to date - regardless of defense motions and prosecution mistakes- is there a narrative that explains the evidence and yet doesn’t assume that the current accused individual on trial is obviously guilty?

In the quest for justice for the girls, I have to wonder if the “masses” would be willing to have the wrong person held accountable vs no one held accountable

Does our desire for closure and accountability on occasion obscure our quest for justice- would we rather a man be falsely convicted? Or the case remain unsolved? Just thinking out loud, towards no one in particular- but thinking about some recent dinner table conversations… moo

The court hasn’t done themselves any favors with some of her rulings for this imo.

I hope for the families sake truth will prevail somehow ultimately.

 

[arielilane]

Posting for those that do not have access to X.

@KylaBRussell

#UPDATE: Updates from session 1 of day 3 in the #Delphi double murder trial.

- The first witness called by the state was Deputy Darren Giancola. He was the first deputy to arrive on scene after the girls’ bodies were found.
- Then came at least 42 graphic photos of the crime scene. They were taken by ISP CSI Josh Page. Below are my observations.
- Libby was naked and Abby’s clothes looked damp.
- There were at least four blood stains on the ground or nearby trees.
- Libby had significant blood on her hands and neck.
- Abby also had blood stains, not as many as Libby.
- Branches were placed on top of the girls, more so on Libby.
- Libby’s mom and sister were visibly emotional.
- Richard Allen’s mom and step dad were holding hands as photos were shown.
- Richard Allen did not have much reaction to the photos.



11:58 AM · Oct 21, 2024

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848393463491899722

 

[EllaMinnowP]

Before this becomes some other thing that can be twisted by the Defense somehow, during her live update on CourtTV, Barbara McDonald said that black bars had been placed over parts of Libby's body in the photographs shown to the jury to protect her modesty since she was nude. I'm almost certain that is what is meant. Not that that will matter to some.

It's at around 2:45 in the video below:

Witnesses Detail Delphi Murders Crime Scene in Richard Allen's Trial

Crime scene investigator Jason Page walked the jury through more than 40 images in the trial of Richard Allen.

www.courttv.com

(Note, this is not directed at you Ella, just frustrated with the twisting of facts that keeps happening despite sworn testimony otherwise).

Thanks for the link! I didn’t even think of the privacy blocking black bars when reading “black marks” but as soon as Ravenmoon suggested it, I thought that could be a reasonable explanation, and now it makes sense. I appreciate Barbara’s reporting on the case.
I really do feel for all of these reporters, too. So much info to absorb & make notes of, and so little time to convert all of it into a concise update.

Thanks to everyone who is keeping the thread updated with the various sources!

MOO

 

[shonyakay]

So, according to the defense motion filed today concerning the video on Libby’s phone:

1) the defense is concerned about something the girls say at some point or how LE interpreted what they said. I really wonder what that could be. It’s not just girl talk apparently. My guess is it’s because their discussion makes it clear that only one person is coming at them, which would shoot down their multikiller/kidnapper scenario.
2) the defense claims it has little probative value. So if that’s the case, why do they care about it?
3) the defense claims it is speculative about what is said, and the jury should be be required to figure it out themselves. I would argue it might be speculative for regular folks but not for experts in audio technology or forensics. That’s their job. The defense I guess would have all expert testimony thrown out in all subjects and let the jurors figure it out. That doesn’t fly.

My opinion is the prosecution be required to identify any parts that are enhanced and let the jurors decide whether that’s important.
The defense has cross examination to counter anything.

Just my opinion

My best guess is the Defense team doesn't want the state to delineate that a gun being cocked can be heard because of the unspent bullet found between the girls' bodies.

Letting the experts testify how they enhanced the audio is no problem.

 

[BUF]

After lunch…

Defense attorney Brad Rozzi resumed questioning of Indiana State Police Sgt. Jason Page.

Page said it was not his job to determine the girls’ times of deaths when asked an opinion about when they may have happened.

“Do you know if a rape test kit was given?” Rozzi said.

“I would assume. I wasn’t there,” Page said.
I
Rozzi next asked about the sticks placed over the bodies. Page said he’s seen other death investigations where bodies had sticks placed over them. Page said, in Delphi, a human appeared to have placed the sticks over the girls’ bodies.

Rozzi also asked about the depth of Deer Creek, the size of the footprints, the blood around the area where the bodies were found, and about information on the hair found in Abby’s hand. Page responded, “You’re asking questions out of my knowledge.”

Page later explained his job — he was the 14th law enforcement officer to arrive at the crime scene — was to preserve the area through photography.

Prosecutors next called Indiana State Police Sgt. Duane Datzman, a crime scene technician, to the stand. He’s now retired, but was the CSI at the Delphi Murders crime scene. He has at least 20 years as a CSI, visiting hundreds of crime scenes.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 3 blog

Follow the trial of Richard Allen, accused of the Delphi Murders, as he faces charges for the deaths of Abby Williams and Libby German.

wishtv.com

 

[m00c0w]

My best guess is the Defense team doesn't want the state to delineate that a gun being cocked can be heard because of the unspent bullet found between the girls' bodies.

Letting the experts testify how they enhanced the audio is no problem.

I think it’s actually going to be one of the girls saying “he’s got a gun” or something similar. The defense doesn’t want it in for the same reason, though… if BG has a gun and the girls only refer to one person, the defense’s narrative starts to look pretty… unfactual.

JMO

 

[Kudzuu]

I have followed this case and am horrified by what happened to these girls- and if I’m going to take a hypothetical innocent until proven guilty narrative, is there another plausible explanation for the evidence that we have to date - regardless of defense motions and prosecution mistakes- is there a narrative that explains the evidence and yet doesn’t assume that the current accused individual on trial is obviously guilty?

In the quest for justice for the girls, I have to wonder if the “masses” would be willing to have the wrong person held accountable vs no one held accountable

Does our desire for closure and accountability on occasion obscure our quest for justice- would we rather a man be falsely convicted? Or the case remain unsolved? Just thinking out loud, towards no one in particular- but thinking about some recent dinner table conversations… moo

I agree with you . The thing that bugs me is DNA. We don't have a definitive answer yet. One would think their would be the killers blood on the victims or at the crime scene. Bullet maybe? If so it doesn't matter about the bullet matching his gun . That bugs me.

The other thing is mis filing the report of his interview. I would have thought the first thing they would have pulled all interviews of people on the bridge that day and not wait years to find something mis filed. That really bugs me. Put all that information in a spreadsheet for heaven's sake! That really bugs me.

Maybe I've watched too many movies where the detective studies the interviews and photos over and over into the wee hours of sleepless nights.

Superintendent Carter has retired? He's eerily quiet.

MOO MOO

In no way I intend to disrespect LE. Multiple agencies at work ... different chains of command in a horrible crime investigation.

 

[Cedars]

Does our desire for closure and accountability on occasion obscure our quest for justice- would we rather a man be falsely convicted? Or the case remain unsolved?

I am confused. The justice system is not a democracy. We don't leave it up to the public to investigate crimes, catch criminals, give them a fair trial, find them guilty or not guilty, or sentence them.

The justice system is a highly evolved system which is literally hundreds of years old, and based on profund principles that, IMO, most members of the public don't know anything about. Issues of the right to a fair trial, legal statutes, rules of evidence, are built in. It is not perfect, people are not perfect, but the idea that we should just dismiss it in favour of opinions from random people doesn't seem to me like a good idea.

People are entitled to their opinions. But IMO, they should not spread false information to try to persuade others to agree with them.

JMO

 

[shonyakay]

So, according to the defense motion filed today concerning the video on Libby’s phone:

1) the defense is concerned about something the girls say at some point or how LE interpreted what they said. I really wonder what that could be. It’s not just girl talk apparently. My guess is it’s because their discussion makes it clear that only one person is coming at them, which would shoot down their multikiller/kidnapper scenario.
2) the defense claims it has little probative value. So if that’s the case, why do they care about it?
3) the defense claims it is speculative about what is said, and the jury should be be required to figure it out themselves. I would argue it might be speculative for regular folks but not for experts in audio technology or forensics. That’s their job. The defense I guess would have all expert testimony thrown out in all subjects and let the jurors figure it out. That doesn’t fly.

My opinion is the prosecution be required to identify any parts that are enhanced and let the jurors decide whether that’s important.
The defense has cross examination to counter anything.

Just my opinion

You make a great point about one person coming at them. I totally missed it on my first read through.

When Gray Hughes described Libby's cellphone video he said one of the girls' (thought to be Abby) asks, "Is that a gun? He's got a gun!"

Not "They."

 

[vls12345]

Glitter?

Datzman talked about more than a dozen photos of the crime scene. He talked about where blood was found on and near the girls’ bodies. He also noted glitter was found on leaves on the ground. He also talked about photos of the cartridge found near one of the girls’ bodies.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 3 blog

Follow the trial of Richard Allen, accused of the Delphi Murders, as he faces charges for the deaths of Abby Williams and Libby German.

wishtv.com

Eta: Others have suggested this might instead be spatter (glitter being a typo from hurried notes, perhaps).

 

[Mirabel091]

In the quest for justice for the girls, I have to wonder if the “masses” would be willing to have the wrong person held accountable vs no one held accountable

Does our desire for closure and accountability on occasion obscure our quest for justice- would we rather a man be falsely convicted? Or the case remain unsolved? Just thinking out loud, towards no one in particular- but thinking about some recent dinner table conversations… moo

Snipped and bolded.

No. If the accused person is not the killer but gets falsely convicted we might (not realising it at the time) feel a sense of closure but in reality there is no closure, the crime remains unsolved, just as it would if they walked free. IMO & MOO.

 

[Trebor5591]

He’s the only person to confess 60 times to everyone BUT the cops, however you guess the odds.

We still haven't seen a transcript of a single one of those 60 "confessions" have we?