Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #201

[sunshineray]

I see it as a game. A high stakes chess match within the confines of the law.

I'd have to respectfully disagree with that. Justice is not a game. Not convicting a guilty man for the brutal slaughter of two children or letting one walk free in error. Nor is convicting an innocent man of something he didn't do, in error. There has to be reverence for those scenarios or what has society turned into? That's just my opinion and the way I'm wired...wired, not weird <3

 

[Melted]

I don’t know…. I don’t like the idea of any defense team trying to mislead and confuse things in hopes of freeing a guilty person.
Sure, the quality of the investigation is up for grabs and it’s fine to have your expert contradict their expert. Things like that.
But, in my opinion, what this defense team is doing is dishonest. It is beyond the pale.
I do not want LE lying about things and I don’t want the defense lying about things. A trial is supposed to be a search for truth. How can you have that if one side is lying and saying misleading things.

What did the defense lie about?

 

[sunshineray]

As we all know, the hair in Abby’s hand was determined by DNA to be that of a female relative of Libby’s.

There have been opinions that so far, no one has been excluded by that hair, other than that the hair does not belong to RA.

Is it possible that Kelsi German or Becky Patty or a cousin is the murderer?

Of course there have been cases where the murderer is a very unexpected relative.

Is there any evidence in this case, direct or circumstantial, that points to one of Libby’s female relatives being the murderer?

Kelsi dropped them off and they were alive. We have proof with the photos on the bridge. She did not return to get them because Libby’s dad was supposed to pick them up. He’s a a male, hence excluded.

Are any female relatives captured on video telling the girls to go down the hill? Did any eyewitness claim to have seen any of those relatives on the bridge? No and no.

Has the behavior of Becky Patty and/or Kelsi German over the past seven years shown any signs of suspicion? Or have they instead devoted the last seven years to pursuing every avenue of Justice, and to keeping the memory of Abby and Libby alive? Have they cooperated with LE in every way they’ve been asked, including providing DNA samples? Yes and yes.

IMO this is not only ludicrous but also impugns two of the people who adored the girls with all their hearts and souls. People who would give anything to have Abby and Libby alive and well, now in their early 20s.

Just my opinion but I assume the insinuations are extraordinarily painful to the families.

Very well put Arkay and I agree. To mention the hair the way it was and in doing so knowing full well it was a female family members hair, most likely Libby's sister Kelsei or her grandma Becky was offensive and hurtful. That's not good lawyering in my view, it's just downright awful behavior. Throwing spaghetti at the wall is one thing in your quest to be as zealous as you can but this was throwing something else, right at the prosecution while seeing the victim's family was standing right there in front of you to get hit...knowing it was for nothing tangible.
Bad behavior AJMO.

 

[mrjitty]

That's what I find interesting. If you have a strong argument that can refute the tool mark evidence, then there's no reason to basically say "by the way, that round wasn't left by the killer."

So I think that probably bodes well for the prosecution in that regard.

Right.

This is my beef with the defence case. It's based on a number of highly unlikely things happening. What I like to call "Wild Speculation by Counsel" which is not actually evidence. They are speculative inferences.

For instance, there is no evidence the girls were taken to a second secret location.

The D and it's surrogates have pushed for months the idea that because the phone received messages in the dead of night this means BOTH that it was turned on at that time AND it was somewhere else until that time.

Of course it does not prove those things at all. What would prove the phone was turned on would be it's logs. What would prove the phone was somewhere else would be location data.

These are speculative stories based on assumptions piled one on top of the other!

MOO

 

[shonyakay]

RA is entitled to a serious, sober, critical examination of the case against him. He does not deserve a 50 / 50 or better chance to walk free regardless of the likelihood he murdered those two girls.

This ^^^

 

[Niner]

Monday, October 21st:
*Trial continues (Day 3) (@ 9am ET) – IN – Abigail Joyce Williams (13) & Liberty Rose Lynn German (14) (Missing Feb. 13, 2017, found killed Feb. 14, 2017, after walking on a local hiking trail & were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the Monon High Bridge Trail, Delphi) – *Richard “Ricky/Rick” Matthew Allen (44 @ time of crime/50/now 52) arrested & booked (10/26/22) into the Carroll County Jail & charged & arraigned (10/28/22) with 2 counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims. Plead not guilty. Held without bond.
Amended charges (1/18/24/granted 3/18/24): 2 counts of felony murder (knowingly & intentionally), 2 counts of murder (while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims). Transferred to White County jail from Carroll County for security reasons. And was transferred (11/2/22) to IN. DOC at Westville Correctional Facility at a more secure facility. Was awaiting transfer to Westville Correctional Facility but Judge Gull denied move (6/15/23). She plans to take the arguments under advisement & will make a ruling on whether or not he will be moved out of Westville at a later date. Judge Gull denied move (7/5/23). On 12/6/23 Allen was transferred from Westville to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility (long term segregation). Allen was booked (5/6/24) into the Allen County Jail [for hearing on 5/7/24]. Allen back (5/7/24) to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility. Judge Gull granted transfer of custody to the Carroll County Sheriff [instead of IDOC] but will be held in Cass County jail until trial [8/1/24]. Carroll County
Trial began with jury selection on 10/14/24 & ended 10/15/24.
Trial began on 10/18/24. Mondays thru Fridays from 9am to 6pm. Saturdays from 9am to noon.
*12 jurors (7 women & 5 men) & 4 alternates [3 women & 1 man]. Jury is sequestered.
Allen County Judge Frances C. Gull presiding. Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland & Special Prosecutor James David Luttrull, Jr.
Andrew Baldwin & Bradley Rozzi are Allen’s public appointed attorneys & added Jennifer Auger [addressing the circumstances surrounding digital forensics].
Charges, case & court info from 4/19/21 thru 10/11/24 & Jury Selection Day 1-2 (10/14-10/15/24) & thru 10/16/24 & Trial Day 1 (10/18/24) reference post #109 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ders-richard-allen-arrested-200.726387/page-6
10/17/24 Update: Motions to be decided:
*State’s Motion in Limine – IPAS - ??
*State’s Motion in Limine- Tobin – Under advisement.
*Defense’s Response To State’s Motion in Limine-Tobin – Under advisement.
*Motion for Order on Designated Defense Representatives - ??
10/19/24 Saturday, Trial Day 2: State witnesses: State Investigator [& former Delphi Police Chief] Steve Mullin. Jurors saw more drone video of the area. Delphi resident Jake Johns [found Libby's tie dye shirt in Deer Creek]. Delphi resident Pat Brown [found the bodies].
Session ended after the jury was shown a photograph of Libby’s shirt & shoes in the muddy water of Deer Creek.
For more info see post #243 (Day 2 blog) here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ers-richard-allen-arrested-200.726387/page-13
Judge Fran Gull dismissed jurors at 11:35 a.m. She indicated that testimony from the next witness on Monday would be “quite lengthy,” meaning it’s likely jurors will hear from the first law enforcement to arrive at the scene and secure it at the start of the investigation. After the jurors were dismissed, the defense said they wanted to submit a deposition from Anna Williams, Abby's mom, as "an offer of proof on a 3rd party perpetrator." It was given on Aug 30, 2024--after that 3 day hearing. The defense said it was new evidence that they had not had at the time of that hearing. See post #297 & 298, page 15, thread 199.
Trial continues on Monday, 10/21/24 @ 9am.

 

[Dhighsmith]

I think the defense would profit by trying to convince the jury that the toolmark evidence doesn't show us that the unspent cartridge was cycled by the defendants gun to the exclusion of all guns of the same make and model. There's your reasonable doubt about that particular piece of evidence.

Trying to say that LE left the round at the crime scene is just the wrong way to give the jury reasonable doubt. Because it's simply not reasonable. JMO.

I need to better understand reasoning for strategy of the D forcing conspiracies instead of investigating and presenting the facts. Conspiracies seem to create additional work and stress and doesn’t offer guarantee of success.

 

[BexLuth0r]

It falls under the felony murder charges. So he’s charged with two counts of murder as well as two counts of felony murder, with kidnapping being the underlying felony crime.

So, theoretically, he could be found guilty of felony murder (if he is proven to be bridge guy by the prosecution) but not guilty of murder?
Just trying to lay this all out in my head!

 

[girlhasnoname]

Day #8 in Justice for Abby and Libby​

 

[mrjitty]

Exactly right and accurately said,
it is abhorrent that people attack family members who truly love victims, in these beyond heinous crimes. it happens in some cases. critter's seeking to throw shade to make themselves feel involved, sometimes attempting diversion against the truth, seek a reward, get interviewed or stick their nose where it isn't any of their business! Psychologist say they are generally cross-wired in their brains about understanding normal decency. it is viciously cruel to families and no amount of the critter's unreasonable explanation, makes common sense, to the intelligent compassionate mind

Agreed

In my opinion the defence has intentionally tried to tap into the conspiracies directed against the family. That is my opinion only obviously - but it's highly unethical. YMMV

 

[sunshineray]

I need to better understand reasoning for strategy of the D forcing conspiracies instead of investigating and presenting the facts. Conspiracies seem to create additional work and stress and doesn’t offer guarantee of success.

Honestly, in my opinion, it's all just shock and awe baloney for SM to eat and spew out. You might even get a couple like-minded MM outlets to want a taste for clicks and views. It's all about online Alex Jones-type stuff. It's what big and renown cases turn into now. JG tried to curb it and it's popped into her courthouse a couple times and outside it...MM photographer trying to get jurors on film in the parking lot...really? This D wants to be rock stars, in the news and on everyone's lips, so they twist things and invite SM personalities to sit in their seats to see it all and spew. There were good reasons JG removed these lawyers, IMO. Too bad she didn't follow procedure and instead gave them a save-face way out. I hope the Prosecution fully understands what they're up against with these two personalities defending RA. AJMO

 

[Bergmann]

With a rock solid prosecution case, backed by overwhelming evidence which we expect to hear this week, then none of these alleged defense games will matter will they?

In which case I doubt Nick McL is losing any sleep over any of this side show.

JMO

 

[shonyakay]

What did the defense lie about?

One big lie was them claiming Abby was pretty much cleaned of blood. I guess to insinuate a Cult saved her blood for rituals?

Come to find out the sweatshirt she was wearing was drenched in blood around the neck area where her fatal wound was inflicted.

 

[Salah11]

A big week for the prosecution so I hope we can finally get a bigger picture of what happened that afternoon with RA.

 

[FrostedGlass]

With a rock solid prosecution case, backed by overwhelming evidence which we expect to hear this week, then none of these alleged defense games will matter will they?

In which case I doubt Nick McL is losing any sleep over any of this side show.

JMO

I agree.
Solid evidence the P may have will go a long way in getting that guilty verdict. Why all the worry about confusing the jury?
The D is doing a good job by making him prove his case.
MOO

 

[Salah11]

Is there a list of names that the prosecution plan to call?

Sorry I don’t know how it works and if they publish a list before hand.

 

[statt#1]

Throwing spaghetti at the wall is one thing in your quest to be as zealous as you can but this was throwing something else, right at the prosecution while seeing the victim's family was standing right there in front of you to get hit...knowing it was for nothing tangible.
Bad behavior AJMO.

This is why I think it a disservice to the defense, as a juror, my take would be, these guys aren't trustworthy....they're trying to lead me astray without cause. My opinion.....give me some real evidence to exonerate this man, not innuendo.

 

[Quim The Extraordinaire]

Donnie Burgess, a journalist with @93wibc, has shared via (Twitter)X some updated onsite logistical information from the City of Delphi. This is a great and thoughtful effort to address some of the confusion and disorganization outside the courthouse.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1847997900367782300

Text below for those who cannot view (Twitter)X posts.

—
Donnie Burgess @localguy

A note from #Delphi Mayor Kamron Yates. Mostly logistics information.

"While we are saddened by the reason for the sudden interest and activity in the City, we wish to make everyone's visit to Delphi outside of the Courthouse as safe and enjoyable as possible under the circumstances."
—

The 2-page guidelines are below.





EBM for typos

 

[Melted]

“During the news conference. Sgt. Tony Slocum said the search continued for a man seen in a photo. Investigators revealed that the photo also came from Liberty German’s phone. They said it’s possible the voice in the recording is that of the man in the photo.”

https://fox59.com/news/officials-to-provide-update-in-murder-investigation-of-delphi-teens/

 

[sunshineray]

This is why I think it a disservice to the defense, as a juror, my take would be, these guys aren't trustworthy....they're trying to lead me astray without cause. My opinion.....give me some real evidence to exonerate this man, not innuendo.

Exactly, to date as far as I'm concerned, all smoke and mirrors