Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #201

[Simply Southern]

In the FM, the D said they had three pics of it in the ground but nothing after that. They did find one from the lab but there was nothing in between.

So there was really no visual proof that the bullet found at the scene was the same one that ended up in the lab.
MOO

How do they explain

>How was a spent bullet from RAs gun obtained for a “switch”

>Who or how did the person obtain entry to a secured evidence locker

>How was a tamper proof container breached with out evidence of tampering

>Who was out to get RA

They present “ideas” and failed to explain logical questions.

Moo

 

[FrostedGlass]

Arterial spray is directional. IMO the majority of it hit his body at an angle, which means only a portion/only one of the gloves were splashed. Plus according to the timelines the perp had plenty of time after committing the murders and before being seen, for the blood to partially dry before moving the branches or, hear me out, he instinctively wiped his bloody gloves on his clothes first (that's what I do when my hands are wet) and so minimal transfer happened.

I take the opinion of the LE to mean 'there was no blood on the branches to indicate they were the murder weapons/that they were there pre-mortem'. Not no blood as in - there was not a single smudge on them.

That's the simplest possible explanation IMO. The other explanation would be that one perp was there covered in blood, walking around for a witness to see him, and then there was a second one who no one saw, like some kind of spirit only summoned to do did all branch-moving, only to disappear again.

All MOO

Thank you for your courteous reply, it was helpful.

IMO the news source that quoted LE probably got it wrong regarding no blood. Every image I've seen so far has a stick across the horrible wounds on Libby's neck. IMO there is no way it would not have blood on it. Maybe they just thought it was hers and pitched it off to the side, although I can't imagine why they would do that.

 

[arielilane]

Delphi Murders trial: Day 4 live blog​

Delphi Murders trial: Day 4 live blog

Day 4 of the Delphi Murders trial will take place at the Carroll County courthouse on Tuesday. Follow our live blog for the latest updates.

wishtv.com

---

9 A.M.: COURT BEGINS MORNING SESSION​

8:05 A.M.​

News 8’s Kyla Russell reported at 6 a.m. that the line outside the Carroll County courthouse in Delphi continues to grow. She’s been waiting in line at the courthouse since the early hours of Tuesday.

 

[ClearAhead]

One more bullet question-sorry if it’s a stupid question or has already been repeatedly asked and I missed it - are tool marking on a bullet similar to say fingerprints or dna which can be documented independently prior to having a suspect in mind? I know that you’d need to have the gun to match- like needed a suspect to compare fingerprints or dna to look for a match- but could the bullet have been analyzed earlier and then matched to a particular gun at a later?

Good question and I’m sure we’ll hear more about this when the ballistic expert/s testify. The testing information contained in the PCA is quite technical.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

 

[arielilane]

@NewsyBarbara

#DelphiTrial Testimony is scheduled to resume at 9, with more direct testimony for lead CSI Brian Olehy. He was one of 3 CSI's who worked the scene.


7:56 AM · Oct 22, 2024


3 CSI - the FBI ERT was there too, actually doing much of the collecting of evidence after CSI id'ed stuff... but we haven't heard how many ERT members were there.


There is at least one FBI special agent on the list for both prosecution and defense. Not sure if they'll call any ERT members.


8:56 AM · Oct 22, 2024

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Defense keep adding evidentiary value to the bullet in their line of questioning.
Seems like an odd choice.

Jmo

 

[FrostedGlass]

Thank you, that’s very helpful for my novice understanding of how it works- and as a juror that type of documented chain of custody would satisfy my questions about “planted” evidence- gaps in the chain would create questions for me-

I was just saying that as a non expert I’d probably be the dumb juror asking what looked like stupid or ridiculously simple questions about how and when evidence was collected, secured and analyzed- I’m just ignorant to much of it, and I know that procedures vary by state and jurisdiction

Thank you for you helpful reply

Your are the very kind of juror the folks in Indiana hope for. We want them to come in with an open mind, have no pre-conceived ideas about the issues and have no fear of asking questions.

 

[joe jones]

The amount of things one perpetrator had to have done in the amount of time he had will always astound me, just getting the two girls down the hill to the spot he needed to get them to cross the river took time, as they wouldn't have any idea where he was directing them too (and over time I think the "down the hill" comment may be a product of LE enhancing the words on the recording and if we watched the video as is we may not dicipher any words) and he would have had to keep directing them to where he wanted them to go.
Then everything else that was done, I will always struggle with the time unless the perpetrator talks and explains in detail how it was done and RA could be that perpetrator, I am at present on the fence about him when pre trial I was a little surer.

 

[tlcya]

Things that make you say, hmmmm.

chain of custody will be painstakingly explained. It is not necessary to have video of the bullet in the ground, being removed from the ground, being carried to the lab and checked into the lab to illustrate the chain of custody. MOO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

 

[scapa]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848574593726034325

No particular dog in the CoC race, but I wonder with the power of hindsight and the full understanding that this bullet may prove to be the hinge of the prosecution case, those SOCO investigators might have taken detailed photos and videos of it in situ, being removed, and bagged.

Not a critique of procedure, because there might have been dozens of bullets for dozens of reasons there in a crime scene where bladed weapons were obviously in use. Just wondering if the unspent catrige/bullet was recognized straightaway as crucial evidence, or if it had been, might it then have been afforded a different level of documentation.

It's such an odd feature of the case for me -- the unspent round that points to the killer who did not fire a gun. Just musings, feel free to disregard.

For the record, I know very little about evidence collection procedures.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The amount of things one perpetrator had to have done in the amount of time he had will always astound me, just getting the two girls down the hill to the spot he needed to get them to cross the river took time, as they wouldn't have any idea where he was directing them too (and over time I think the "down the hill" comment may be a product of LE enhancing the words on the recording and if we watched the video as is we may not dicipher any words) and he would have had to keep directing them to where he wanted them to go.
Then everything else that was done, I will always struggle with the time unless the perpetrator talks and explains in detail how it was done and RA could be that perpetrator, I am at present on the fence about him when pre trial I was a little surer.

How much time are you talking about?

 

[joe jones]

chain of custody will be painstakingly explained. It is not necessary to have video of the bullet in the ground, being removed from the ground, being carried to the lab and checked into the lab to illustrate the chain of custody. MOO

I think it is very important to show all aspects of collection, how it looked when removed from ground, very good close up of it after removal with any markings and manufacturers stamps noted and taken. photos of this removes any doubt as to this is the cartridge we found and removed and placed and sealed in evidence bag on scene.
Not doing so leaves doubts as we can't be expected to solely rely on LE saying take my word for it this is the bullet as most people want to be sure the evidence is exactly what they say it is.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Good question and I’m sure we’ll hear more about this when the ballistic expert/s testify. The testing information contained in the PCA is quite technical.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

View attachment 539669

so hypothetically whomever served the search warrant and retrieved the gun fromRA’s home, could have hypothetically been able to eject/cycle a bullet through the gun and it was have had similar markings to the one found at the scene and or per conspiracy theories, swapped out the newly cycled bullet with the one found at the scene?

I don’t think that’s what happened personally, I’m thinking about how a “swap” or planted evidence might have happened - it seems really unlikely- moo

 

[scapa]

Exactly. I can have a bread pan that has an unique dent in it. Every loaf I bake will have the marking of that dent. No matter if you test my pan in one day after an incident or 20 years after, the dent will be exactly the same.

This is a terrific everyday analogy -- instantly comprehensible for those of us who are guns & ammo challenged! Prosecution team, take note!

Who among us has not recognized a loaf or pastry made with **that** pan?

Might also help to explain that thorny term of the profiler's art, the "signature."

 

[Simply Southern]

I don't know about corrupt LE and framing... all I do know is 50 folks in the state of Indiana have been wrongfully convicted. I live here and don't ever want to see that happen again.

I haven't seen testimony of what you're saying. I've seen one of the LE say he saw the cartridge but did not disturb it. I know pics were taken of the visible part of it while it was in the ground.

Can you link to the testimony of who actually bagged it?

I think anyone who might sit in RA's chair would want, at least, a picture of the entire cartridge.

We will hear from the person that collected the bullet and everyone who interacted with the bullet since.
The bullet will have its day in court, maybe two. P is going in chronological order to tell the story.

Moo…

 

[MassGuy]

dbm

 

[tlcya]

The problem is the bullet was not tested until 2023, 6 years after the crime. We already know and the defense is going to let the jury know how this investigative team clearly has a problem with handling evidence (deleting the first 48 hours of all interviews, losing the recorded tip Dullin supposedly recorded of RA, etc etc)

Where was that bullet for 6 years? Who has access to it? And as the jury asked today… is there anyway the bullet that ended up being tested was not the bullet that was taken from the crime scene.

Moo

How does one test a bullet before one has a weapon to test it against?

 

[FrostedGlass]

dbm

DNA is a little different than a subjective opinion.
MOO

Never mind... comment was deleted after I replied.

 

[Bbgiraffe]

Just speculating that maybe the gun is more visible in the video and was able to be ID'd from the video as a Sig Sauer. Maybe the investigators knew they were looking for that make of gun. Then RA admits he has one, I mean a lot of people probably have the same gun but as far as we know RA is the only one who was at the bridge that day and has that model of gun.

Moo.