Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #202

[justtrish]

Should they have taken the sticks right away? Yes. Would it have helped catch the killer? Almost certainly not.

Some small town police department accidentally recording over a couple interviews that were also hand recorded? Not a big deal.

Witnesses not agreeing? Standard.

Every case I’ve followed has had some massive mistakes. Whether it be law enforcement not discovering a body right under their nose, missing obvious blood evidence and allowing residents to remain in a property for days after a murder (seen this multiple times), failure to follow up major leads right away, etc.

The major mistake here was not only the misfiling of that interview with Allen, but the failure to discover it until years had passed. That sent them on a wild goose chase, and likely allowed evidence to be lost to time.

That mistake, large as it was, does not mean that everything should be looked through that lens. This task force looked at countless suspects, and did their due diligence.

They encountered a crime that by its very nature, is the hardest to solve. It was committed by a stranger, occurred outdoors, no one actually saw it happen, and the killer left no DNA.

They were reliant upon witnesses who recognized the man they saw as BG, but could not aid in his identification.

They could develop a timeline, but not a name.

Until they saw something they should have seen all along, followed up, and were gifted the probable cause via Allen, they needed to finally help unmask BG.

I look at this and I of course see issues. I’ve seen them before, and I’ll see them again. Nothing raises this to the level of “Keystone Cops” though.

“Omg, they didn’t do a rape kit.”

“They lied about the video.”

“They didn’t take more photographs so now chain of custody is in doubt.”

“They didn’t see the bodies that night, so they must have been moved”.

“They needed someone to pin this on so they chose Allen.”

Naw.

Well said!

 

[SouthEnd]

This man (attached) was walking along the road looking dirty with what appeared to be mud and blood on his clothing. He was described by other witnesses as being unfriendly and having his face covered. He is over-dressed for the weather and carried a suspicious pouch that may contain a weapon.

The defence wants to know why the female witness did not stop to offer the man a ride. Absurd question. Furthermore, if it wasn't the defendant, what difference does it make how dirty he looked? According to the defence, their client was not there. Their client left the park at 2:15 and the real culprit was in the area during the middle of the night.

The line of questioning implies that it was their client, he was there, but he wasn't dirty with mud and blood.

"She also saw a man covered in “mud” and “blood” walking along a country road. She said she drove past the man, who did not acknowledge her, but says she later recognized him as “Bridge Guy.” She waited three weeks to report who she saw to police, saying she was afraid."

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 5 live blog

Wednesday is day 5 of testimonies in the Delphi Murders trial begins at the Carroll County courthouse. Follow our live blog for updates.

wishtv.com

100% you hit the nail in the head!

I understand reasonable doubt, but it is beginning to sound like

'So you never saw our client who was only there until 2:15pm, but if you insist he was there at around 4pm, but at least he wasn't bloody, only muddy, and if he was bloody? Maybe it was because he fell and hurt himself, why did you not drive our client to the hospital since our client fell at 4pm and got injured? Maybe you are the criminal, have you thought about that?'

All MOO

 

[MassGuy]

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-phone-pings-cast-doubt-on-defenses-alternate-site-killing-theory/

Cecil said cell phone pings confirmed Libby’s cell phone was in the vicinity of the bridge at 2:05 p.m.

At 2:14 p.m., Libby took the infamous “Bridge Guy” video that captures a man walking behind the girls and telling them, “guys, down the hill.”

At 2:31 p.m., cell phone records note a change in longitude, altitude and elevation. Cecil explained this meant the phone was on the move as the girls were reportedly led down a hill and possibly across Deer Creek.

By 2:39 p.m., the phone was no longer moving. It never moved again nor did it ever ping anywhere outside the trails, Deer Creek and the site where the girls’ bodies would be found on Feb. 14.

Cecil told jurors that the phone gradually powered down throughout the night and died at 10:32 p.m. But then the phone woke with a spike at 4:34 a.m. — receiving 15 to 20 text messages all at once including a message sent nearly 12 hours prior (at 4:06 p.m.) by Libby’s grandmother that said, “Call me now.”

 

[photographer4]

It’s not been reported if the jury asked any questions of her.

She already gave her reason why she didn’t contact LE away. Then when she saw an officer taking tips at a road block to her that as a “sign from god” that she should disclose her information.

I didn't suggest the jury had asked anything of her? I'm not bothered if they did or didn't.

 

[Sunny Day]

This is just my opinion, and may have already been mentioned, but thinking about the lack of DNA. I think he kept his hands in his pockets because he was already wearing latex gloves. He was prepared. The heavy clothing, including hat, mask?, jacket, jeans, to cover every part of his body so no hairs would be left behind. At the same time the heavy clothing hid his body composition/size. He knew exactly what he was doing.
Just my opinion and speculation.

 

[MassGuy]

https://fox59.com/morning-news/angela-answers/understanding-unspent-bullet-evidence-in-delphi-murders/

Summary: Great explainer for the gun illiterate.

Breaks down the terminology and parts of a cartridge, as well as the operation of a gun.

Talks about the extractor and ejector and tool mark identification. Technology is accepted within the scientific community but it comes down to if the appropriate level of analysis was used/the science being applied correctly.

It is a valuable piece of evidence if that was done.

 

[SouthEnd]

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-phone-pings-cast-doubt-on-defenses-alternate-site-killing-theory/

Cecil said cell phone pings confirmed Libby’s cell phone was in the vicinity of the bridge at 2:05 p.m.

At 2:14 p.m., Libby took the infamous “Bridge Guy” video that captures a man walking behind the girls and telling them, “guys, down the hill.”

At 2:31 p.m., cell phone records note a change in longitude, altitude and elevation. Cecil explained this meant the phone was on the move as the girls were reportedly led down a hill and possibly across Deer Creek.

By 2:39 p.m., the phone was no longer moving. It never moved again nor did it ever ping anywhere outside the trails, Deer Creek and the site where the girls’ bodies would be found on Feb. 14.

Cecil told jurors that the phone gradually powered down throughout the night and died at 10:32 p.m. But then the phone woke with a spike at 4:34 a.m. — receiving 15 to 20 text messages all at once including a message sent nearly 12 hours prior (at 4:06 p.m.) by Libby’s grandmother that said, “Call me now.”

RSBM

'Cecil told jurors that the phone gradually powered down throughout the night and died at 10:32 p.m. But then the phone woke with a spike at 4:34 a.m.'

THIS! Was the 2nd location theory going to be... they stayed put until after 10pm, then they were taken to a second location and then put back at 4:34am?!

Now that's a BAM moment I didn't expect. Thanks @MassGuy

All MOO

 

[ClearAhead]

Having read the witness testimony for the people who saw BG that day, I can’t help but feel LE have failed to identify ‘the link’ between RA and the girls.

Look at what the witnesses say:

‘He was walking with purpose’

‘Like he had somewhere to be’

‘His posture and how he was stood on the bridge told me that he was waiting for someone’

It all tells me that RA knew they were going to be there and most likely lured them there.

Somebody stated the name Richard Allen hasn’t even been mentioned in any testimony and that is true. Instead, in a deliberate and methodical way the P are establishing the timeline including various witnesses IDing the likeness of the photo of the man on the bridge. We’ve just passed February 14, 2017. IMO the way the P is moving forward the timeline is ingenious, by presenting seven years of information in chronological order so it’s easy for the jury to understand.

Still yet to come, linking BG = RA including his arrest and confessions.

 

[tlcya]

View attachment 540056

the defense requested on the 10th of this month that a number of inmates be transported for trial (presumably including their client RA). The above shows one transport order was entered by the judge. That docket entry doesn't show which inmate is testifying.

Can you explain what makes you believe that was for JBC? Sorry, not following you.

 

[mrjitty]

'You need to call me now': Delphi murder trial testimony reveals text from Libby's grandmother

The trial of Richard Allen for the Delphi murders resumed Wednesday with testimony from an eyewitness, a forensic pathologist and a police technician.

www.indystar.com

Wednesday afternoon began with a testimony from Sgt. Christopher Cecil, a former digital forensics expert for the Indiana State Police who provided jurors with a timeline of the girls' movements based on an analysis of the contents of Libby's iPhone.

At 1:38 p.m. on Feb. 13, 2017, Libby called her father, named "Daddy-o" in her contacts list. Derrick German testified last week that Libby called him to ask him to pick them up from the Monon High Bridge trail later that afternoon.

At 1:41 p.m., while the girls were on the way to the trail, Libby posted a selfie on Snapchat. Abby was sitting in the backseat. Libby posted another selfie two minutes later. She was smiling, while Abby had a blank expression.

At 2:05 p.m., Libby posted a photo of the high bridge just before they crossed.

At 2:13 p.m., Cecil said, "a video was recorded."

The 43-second video, which jurors saw Tuesday, showed Abby crossing the bridge and a man ― the one who would later become widely known as the "Bridge Guy" and a primary suspect in the case ― following her. Prosecutors allege that man is Allen.

The last movement detected by the phone's Apple health app was at 2:32 p.m.

Officials initially believed that the last signal the phone received was around 10 p.m. on Feb. 13, Cecil said. But a second analysis conducted earlier this year using more advanced programs found that the last signal was actually received at 4:33 a.m. on Feb. 14, Cecil testified.

At that time, Libby's phone received several text messages at once. One came from her grandmother, Becky Patty, who, along with relatives and others, had been searching for Abby and Libby for several hours.

"You need to call me now!!!" Patty texted.

Cecil said there was no indication that Libby's phone had been turned off, and it's unclear why the messages all came at once.

interesting there was a tower connection at 10pm then? seems a bit of a problem for the defence theory?

 

[susiQ]

Given the timing, I'm willing to wager that the "stressed" individual dressed "in pink" with the group she observed by the trail entrance across from Mears Farm was a family member of the girls or one of the others who showed up to help search for them.

The girls were already well overdue and had missed their pickup timing by the time she drove past. They were already searching.

From the PCA:
View attachment 540026

_Probable Cause Affidavit.pdf

drive.google.com

...

Only 45 min late and someone is visibly distressed? No doubt it was a concern but teens being 45 min late for anything doesn’t surprise me. I can understand they wanted to look for them but already distressed? It was only 3:57 pm and not yet dark. Bit of a reach for me. Has the family said it was them? As always, JMHO.

 

[ClearAhead]

I didn't suggest the jury had asked anything of her? I'm not bothered if they did or didn't.

Okay you were asking questions, so maybe the jury didn’t think those questions were important? I don’t know if they asked any questions was simply my reply to your questions.

 

[Vern]

And why does it even matter? Maybe you didnt see blood from the distance but just mud.
More DT arguing minutia to keep away from what is obvious.

Yeah, I'm not sure why the Defence Team cares at this point because their guy was allegedly long gone from the scene by 2:15 .... or not.

I suspect they care because they have nothing exonerating to show he was gone by then ... along with no e-data from his cellphone and no witness to call to show proof of that either. If they did, RA wouldn't be on trial right now.

Rather, they have to contend with the factoid that RA himsf put himself "on the trails" dressed eerily similar to BG from 1330 to 1530hrs.

 

[Gemmie]

Shallow? I am guessing that means she did suffer for a longer period of time than Libby. So sad.

"Shallow" appears to be 1" deep. That's not shallow IMO. I wouldn't want a 1" deep, 3" long cut anywhere on my body, with the neck being the worst area since there's no fat there.

The first autopsy was performed on Abby. Kohr noted Abby’s clothing, any physical injuries, and performed a rape kit. He said that Abby had a 1-inch deep, 3-inch long incision wound on her neck.

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 5 live blog

Wednesday is day 5 of testimonies in the Delphi Murders trial begins at the Carroll County courthouse. Follow our live blog for updates.

www.wishtv.com

 

[EllaMinnowP]

BBM


Competency is not a strategy.

That would violate RA’s Constitutional protections.

Under the Sixth Amendment of the Constitution everyone that is charged with a crime has the right to a fair trial.

For a trial to be considered “fair” the defendant must be competent.

https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt14-S1-5-5-7/ALDE_00013765/#:~:text=(1956)).-,The standard for competency to stand trial is whether the,of the proceedings against him.

Indeed it pained me to slightly defend his confession note but really it’s kind of silly, imo, to be picking it apart for sentence structure and style when the content of what he is expressing in the note is his, Richard Allen’s, words set down in a desire to be heard.


all imo

Thanks for sharing your knowledge with supporting links. My use of the word competency was a direct reply to your use of it in the post that I was replying to.. in my layperson’s terms. That’s all I am, a layperson. And an ordinary American citizen who is very troubled about this case for too many reasons to count. I’m not looking to defend anyone, so I don’t need to know the ins & outs of how to do it. It sure is nice learning lots as I’ve followed along here, though, and am always paying attention to posts made by our Verified Attorneys.

We all see posts here that we don’t agree with, that we find outlandish, or “silly”. The beauty of Websleuths, right? Not a groupthink tank. Anyhow, I’ve stated my opinion on the drawing of the confession & may be weighing in on future confessions too, if time allows and I feel inclined to do so. Jmo

 

[photographer4]

Apparently there is no evidence of ritual at the crime scene. Putting a couple of sticks on a couple of dead bodies does not mean the murders were ritualistic, although some rituals may involve sticks.

Maybe. But he has a legal right to present an alt explanation per the motion itself which I read earlier. I'll say MOO here since not a lawyer.

 

[MassGuy]

"Shallow" appears to be 1" deep. That's not shallow IMO. I wouldn't want a 1" deep, 3" long cut anywhere on my body, with the neck being the worst area since there's no fat there.

The first autopsy was performed on Abby. Kohr noted Abby’s clothing, any physical injuries, and performed a rape kit. He said that Abby had a 1-inch deep, 3-inch long incision wound on her neck.

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 5 live blog

Wednesday is day 5 of testimonies in the Delphi Murders trial begins at the Carroll County courthouse. Follow our live blog for updates.

www.wishtv.com

I think it’s shallow in regards to a standard injury made by a sharp instrument. If you get stabbed directly in the neck, you’re talking about wounds potentially several inches deep. So this was more of a slashing as opposed to that.

 

[ClearAhead]

'You need to call me now': Delphi murder trial testimony reveals text from Libby's grandmother

The trial of Richard Allen for the Delphi murders resumed Wednesday with testimony from an eyewitness, a forensic pathologist and a police technician.

www.indystar.com

“At 1:38 p.m. on Feb. 13, 2017, Libby called her father, named "Daddy-o" in her contacts list. Derrick German testified last week that Libby called him to ask him to pick them up from the Monon High Bridge trail later that afternoon.

At 1:41 p.m., while the girls were on the way to the trail, Libby posted a selfie on Snapchat. Abby was sitting in the backseat. Libby posted another selfie two minutes later. She was smiling, while Abby had a blank expression.

At 2:05 p.m., Libby posted a photo of the high bridge just before they crossed.

At 2:13 p.m., Cecil said, "a video was recorded."

The 43-second video, which jurors saw Tuesday, showed Abby crossing the bridge and a man ― the one who would later become widely known as the "Bridge Guy" and a primary suspect in the case ― following her. Prosecutors allege that man is Allen.

The last movement detected by the phone's Apple health app was at 2:32 p.m.

Officials initially believed that the last signal the phone received was around 10 p.m. on Feb. 13, Cecil said. But a second analysis conducted earlier this year using more advanced programs found that the last signal was actually received at 4:33 a.m. on Feb. 14, Cecil testified.

At that time, Libby's phone received several text messages at once. One came from her grandmother, Becky Patty, who, along with relatives and others, had been searching for Abby and Libby for several hours.

"You need to call me now!!!" Patty texted.

Cecil said there was no indication that Libby's phone had been turned off, and it's unclear why the messages all came at once.”

 

[Spartygirl]

Bbbut, it was much too early to be distressed, when allegedly the girls were still assumed to be in town, at Abby's friend's house or elsewhere on an unallowed, but harmless excursion.
Maybe, we learn of an explanation ....

Explanation-- It was another girl there visiting the trails and bridge that day as were other people there and parked at the Mears Lot.
JMO

 

[BUF]

By 2:39 p.m., the phone was no longer moving. It never moved again nor did it ever ping anywhere outside the trails, Deer Creek and the site where the girls’ bodies would be found on Feb. 14.

Do you think this is when they went in the water and clothes were taken off? Did Libby put the phone in her jeans pocket?

Maybe the phone got wet and turned off….then eventually turned back on at 4:33 am? Did the phone fall out of Libby’s jeans that Abby had on when he came after her to cut her throat and that’s how the phone was found underneath her?

Thoughts anyone?