Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #202

[MiniMoo]

Well, I'm also wondering now what is being considered as 'devices' ... phones, tablets for sure. Laptops? iTunes (what are those called lol... iPods! Sorry ), fitness devices...smart TVs? That could all add up if we're being technical.

So, thinking back, myself and my ex, 2 kids. 4 phones for sure. Tablets, 2 of us but could be 4 in a different family. 2 or more iPods. Then we replace phones/tablets every year or two depending on your cell service specials. So 4 phones make 8 in a few years time. We never traded them in. A fitbit. (I have a Fitbit I'm wearing plus my two previous sitting in a drawer...what do I do with them??). I could see it adding up to 23 in several years depending on what they're looking at. I probably have 15 "devices" in my house currently, old and current, depending on what counts as a "device". I can see it.

More curious about devices active during the timeframe of the crime. That IMO tells a story. If some are missing, then why? Is RA's phone missing (sounds like it wasn't recovered), but for example his wife's from that timeframe is there? Why? ...is my question.

Good questions and it makes sense to think about it and everything in its entirety, if possible.

I would think the same as you plus lap tops, cameras, hard drives, dash cams, smart watches ...anything electronic really that records and stores data, audio or film.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[rez125]

I really don’t know the answer. Are needle marks visible post mortem? What about having them drink a drink with something in it? Or a rag over mouth with a substance soaked into it? Questions again, not opinions. Ty.

The point is we don't know because as it stands currently, no tox screen was done, or that we know about.

Same with the stomach contents.

 

[Seattle1]

Why was he shown crime scene photos at all? Is this standard practice in most murder cases to show crime scene photo to the autopsy person just before trial? I am a new trial follower so this is not an opinion, it’s a question! Ty in advance.

The ME typically travels to the crime scene for assessment and to collect the bodies. It does not appear he did that. He generally takes his own autopsy photos, and I'm not sure he used his own photos or only diagrams during his testimony. We know the jurors saw crime scene photos.

State's 19th witness: Dr. Roland Kohr, who performed the autopsies​

Kohr said he was called on Feb. 14, 2017, to perform the autopsies, which he did on Feb. 15, 2017.

'I don't know' | Investigator describes unexplained gap in data from Libby's phone | Day 5 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

 

[twall]

Exactly. Just like when you water a plant. Seems very basic to me.

Not when it's February in Indiana and the ground is frozen. And with the leaf and tree cover in that area it would definitely be frozen due to less sunlight. We've already had.the first frost here. JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Holy moly. SC stated an amber alert is what brought her in. Three days later.

There was no amber alert. Wonder if defense has caught this yet.

SC may have been responding to the Amber Alert that was sent out for a different teen. There was public confusion the day Libby and Abby went missing about the Amber Alert process. Unsure why she would have waited 3 days, though.

By: Audra Levy
Posted 12:39 PM, Feb 14, 2017
and last updated 4:11 PM, Feb 15, 2017

“15-year-old Chastinea Reeves of Gary was found safe Tuesday after an Amber Alert was issued. Gary police said Monday that Reeves had been abducted and they believed that she might be in extreme danger, therefore her disappearance met the criteria of an alert.”

Why no Amber Alert for missing girls?

On Monday,two girls from Delphi were reported missingafter they were dropped off to go hiking near a trail in Carroll County. They never showed up at the location where they were supposed to be picked up and an Amber Alert for their disappearance was never issued.

www.wrtv.com

 

[photographer4]

Another question: Robert ives I think once told the media that they felt this would be solved fairly quickly with old school police methods and never explained why aside to say based on the evidence they had at the scene - I’m just wondering, does anyone feel we know what he was on about yet?

“I go back before DNA and cell phones,” said Ives who remembered prosecuting criminal cases in Carroll County with less evidence than in this case since 1987, “and I certainly would have said, if experienced investigators, as we have in this case, had the evidence that was available in this case, I would expect them to solve it within a month. That’s without DNA and cell phones which are a big part of what’s going on here.”

Prosecutor says cops likely have met Delphi killer or received crucial tip due to scope of probe

DELPHI, Ind. — Carroll County Prosecutor Robert Ives told FOX59 the law of averages favors that of the thousands of tips that have poured in and the hundreds of doors police and FBI agents ha…

fox59.com

 

[photographer4]

This makes me sick to write - but the abrasion on Abby’s chin, it’s not sticky like tape but a red abrasion I believe. Possibly a goatee rubbing, especially if it was a short stubbly kind? If he was close to her to cut her, he was close enough to kiss. Ugh.

Edit to add: or a rough glove to hold her still?

Just thinking aloud. JMO

IMO,
No. The possibilities mentioned in testimony today were it was from possibly duct tape or cloth. Moooooo.

 

[Vern]

I wondered this earlier as well! Amber alert - one article said she heard it on Feb 13 but why? When the police had no reason to think the kids had been abducted yet?? They wouldn’t know this until the 14th!

Girls on Delphi trail on day of murders speak out: 'That was the man I had waved at'

Teenage girls who were on the Delphi hiking trail on the same day two younger girls were murdered there are speaking out about their recollections of the "bridge guy."

abcnews.go.com

Amber alert criteria for Indiana:

Amber Alert Plan

www.in.gov

They didn’t know the kids were abducted AND in danger of serious harm or death on the 13th.

@JAY CLUCK

I suspect that she saw the Alerts going out 3 days later with the photo from Libby's phone that was seeking people to call the tipline. They came out that day.

Here's a link to BG showing up here way back on 16th February 2017:

S

Post in thread 'IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 13, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #1'

Feb 16, 2017

Hope I am posting the picture correctly!

I know many say they do not see anyone in the picture taken on the bridge but when I look at it I see something. I circled where I see it. When zooming in a bit it looks like a dark jacket and light pants. The coloring looks very much like the coloring of the clothes the man in the picture is wearing. Also, when I look at the still shots of him walking I see something else. Where the brown thing is {fanny pack, sweatshirt, whatever it is hanging down} there...

• said_it_and_meant_it

• 

 

[Arkay]

Not when it's February in Indiana and the ground is frozen. And with the leaf and tree cover in that area it would definitely be frozen due to less sunlight. We've already had.the first frost here. JMO

Yes, but:

a) February 13, 2017 was an exceptionally warm day, as we’ve been informed since the beginning, and:

b) blood leaving the body is 98.6°, which will cool after awhile.

It’s my opinion that they lost most of their blood so quickly that the warm blood combined with the warm day allowed the blood to penetrate and saturate the ground.

Also, the experts who combed through the crime scene said it was saturated with the girls’ blood. I believe them.

We will have to agree to disagree.

What is the normal human blood temperature? | Optum Perks

Depending on your size and other factors, blood is typically about the same temperature as your body, or 98.6℉.

perks.optum.com

 

[MiniMoo]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed (insinuations against non-POI)

I only found out this year (July or August) about the possibility of a sharp weapon being used.

Has it always been known that something like a knife was used in this case?

JMQ = Just My Question.

 

[SouthEnd]

Yes, but:

a) February 13, 2017 was an exceptionally warm day, as we’ve been informed since the beginning, and

b) blood leaving the body is 98.6, which will cool after awhile.

It’s my opinion that they lost most of their blood so quickly that the warm blood combined with the warm day allowed the blood to penetrate and saturate the ground.

Also, the experts who combed through the crime scene said it was saturated with the girls’ blood. I believe them.

We will have to agree to disagree.

What is the normal human blood temperature? | Optum Perks

Depending on your size and other factors, blood is typically about the same temperature as your body, or 98.6℉.

perks.optum.com

I couldn't agree more, thank you for putting it in such effective terms.

I have laid down on snow, for a long time, and all the snow under me melted and at some point I realised I was lying down on a slurry of mud. Everywhere else the ground was dry, frozen, crisp. That's basic 1+1 = 2, IMO.

All MOO.

 

[Boxer]

Do you have a source for this?

Thanks in advance

Do you have a source for this?

Thanks in advance.

Jennifer Hendricks on the Nancy Grace show. Aug 1 2024
-at 32 min mark.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Libby....4 x's!
Libby....4 x's! Maybe 5 x's......!!!!
What rage he had for Libby...
This pi$$es me off!!!!!!
He hated her, singled her out, murdered her!
I absolutely hate this!!!
:0(

I wonder what caused the rage? Perhaps she said something to him that he didn’t like or possibly fought him. IMO

 

[Boxer]

I only found out this year (July or August) about the possibility of a sharp weapon being used.

Has it always been known that something like a knife was used in this case?

JMQ = Just My Question.

Very much suspected along the way.
Then defense lawyers leaked crime scene photos.

 

[Boxer]

I wonder what caused the rage? Perhaps she said something to him that he didn’t like or possibly fought him. IMO

Thwarting him.

 

[MassGuy]

<modsnip - quoted post and response was removed (insinuations against non-POI)


In regards to this “unusual knife” thing. Even the pathologist apparently didn’t think so in his reports. He did initially believe the knife could have been serrated, before changing his opinion to the weapon possibly being a box cutter.

So if law enforcement said the knife was unusual it was an interpretation of what the ME said.

Personally, if this knife was a box cutter, I do think that’s an unusual weapon.

I don’t think I’ve followed a case where one has been used, and my only reference point is 9/11. We know they are very effective.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Why was he shown crime scene photos at all? Is this standard practice in most murder cases to show crime scene photo to the autopsy person just before trial? I am a new trial follower so this is not an opinion, it’s a question! Ty in advance.

Possibly to incite emotion and leave a visual in his head. IMO

 

[Deleted member 229974]

This makes me sick to write - but the abrasion on Abby’s chin, it’s not sticky like tape but a red abrasion I believe. Possibly a goatee rubbing, especially if it was a short stubbly kind? If he was close to her to cut her, he was close enough to kiss. Ugh.

Edit to add: or a rough glove to hold her still?

Just thinking aloud. JMO

I would think they’d find his DNA on her skin if he rubbed or kissed her. IMO

 

[Deleted member 229974]

The point is we don't know because as it stands currently, no tox screen was done, or that we know about.

Same with the stomach contents.

Did they say that at the trial or is it forthcoming?

 

[Vern]

Yes, I remember. What does that have to do with my post? I was pointing out to the poster I replied to Libby's phone did not turn off at 10:32 pm so it wouldn't keep.getting passed around as fact when it isn't.

Your post was also talking about "so many dumps" of her phone being done. I linked you to the testimony on the dumps. There was not "so many" and when it was re-analysed in Aug 2024, it was because the data program had been updated.