Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #202

[Argonaut]

If one looks carefully at GoogleMaps of the area you can see the path the old railroad tracks follow in the woods for a half mile or so past the driveway where the bridge now ends.

The bridge crosses the whole flood plane of Deer Creek with only about 1/3 of it crossing running water.

 

[TristanP]

<modsnip - discuss the case, not other members>

So far I have not seen any evidence that proves or disproves it’s RA.

I really like the jury and the very good questions they are asking.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

She doesn't need to. The timeline proves the man Betsy saw is Richard Allen. The timeline is too tight to be anyone else.

Yep. Just a small piece of circumstantial evidence that the jury gets to use in deciding this case. JMO.

 

[MiniMoo]

BB saw *someone* standing on the platform. She did not identify that person to be RA. Even though the state could easily have asked her to do so.

Do you know by chance if any of the witnesses today pointed at Richard Allen to confirm that he was the man they saw on the bridge or trail that day?!

JMT CTK (Curious To Know).

 

[iamshadow21]

Does anyone have a map to help Ranch out?

TY

Page one of every thread .

There is an interactive map made by skibaboo about four posts down on this thread.

Thread 'IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION'

Feb 21, 2017

Please post media maps & timelines here. *NO DISCUSSION*


MISSING: Two 13-year-old girls dropped off to go walking at Carroll County trail

Carroll County Sheriff Toby Leazenby said Abigail Williams and Liberty German were last seen around 1 p.m. when they were dropped off to go hiking at High Bridge, just east of Delphi.

Police ID bodies of Indiana girls

Two bodies found along a northern Indiana stream are those...

• Coldpizza
• Replies: 1,029
• Forum: Located Timeline and Media Links

• 

 

[JAY CLUCK]

Do you know by chance if any of the witnesses today pointed at Richard Allen to confirm that he was the man they saw on the bridge or trail that day?!

JMT CTK (Curious To Know).

No. RA never came up. And all their descriptions were quite different in height and age.

 

[MiniMoo]

I don't necessarily need a map. Just asking a few questions about distances and directions. It's all good.

Someone posted a video link in the last thread with some woman that showed the location so you will see things like places and distances yourself, I believe.

JMT MOO

 

[katydid23]

I haven’t seen or heard the news today on this case and wanted to ask: have any official media outlets reported if the girls sounded scared or if they were just chatting as they strolled along? Pls don’t send links to social media content creators - I won’t bother with them. Asking about actual media reporting if it’s avail? Thanks all.

One thing mentioned was that the girls were filming him as he followed them----so I doubt the girls were just happily strolling along and chatting. It sounded more like they were worried about which way they should go to try and get away.IMO

 

[MiniMoo]

No. RA never came up. And all their descriptions were quite different in height and age.

I still need to catch up a little from yesterday, also, some from today as am behind.

Thank you!

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Someone posted a video link in the last thread with some woman that showed the location so you will see things like places and distances yourself, I believe.

JMT MOO

Thanks, I need to go look for that.

 

[shonyakay]

<modsnip - discuss the case, not other members>

So far I have not seen any evidence that proves or disproves it’s RA.

I really like the jury and the very good questions they are asking.

I didn't need to see anymore evidence. I even said that what we the public knew so far was enough against him. I am just interested to see what if anything else they have against him that hasn't been shared with the public so far.

 

[shonyakay]

One thing mentioned was that the girls were filming him as he followed them----so I doubt the girls were just happily strolling along and chatting. It sounded more like they were worried about which way they should go to try and get away.IMO

Yeah. Can you imagine? You are at the end of a high bridge essentially trapped and this creepy man is heading straight for you.

 

[Cedars]

Probably because she can't identify this person to be RA. JMO.

No, incorrect eyewitness testimony has lead to numerous wrongful convictions, hopefully nobody uses it anymore. And these witnesses just had quick glances at someone covered up with clothing

I recall one case where a person sitting right next to a suspect saw a very distinctive tattoo. Even that wasn't submitted at trial as any kind of proof, but it was testified to because it explained how investigators came to suspect someone. They still had to find evidence to prove that suspect committed the crime.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

At one point, a graphic closeup picture of one of the victims appeared without warning, causing several people to gasp.

Libby was found nude and covered in blood while Abby was found wearing some of Libby’s clothing, according to testimony from last week.

Following the questioning on Tuesday, one juror asked whether the undergrowth on the ground where Abby was lying appeared to have been disturbed, which would suggest she was dressed there, the Indy Star reported.

Ryan Olehy, an Indiana State Police crime scene investigator, said he does not recall the area being disturbed.

As testimony continued, Allen sat at the defense table and rocked subtly back and forth during testimony. He was not cuffed or shackled.

Delphi Murders jury shown video taken by teen shortly before killings

The video taken on the day of the murders is a key piece of evidence in the Delphi killings

www.the-independent.com

I'm really impressed with the juror's thoughtful questions. I can see they are really paying attention.

It was interesting to hear that Allen was rocking back and forth during testimony about the crime scene. I think they call that 'self-soothing ' behaviour. IMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I didn't need to see anymore evidence. I even said that what we the public knew so far was enough against him. I am just interested to see what if anything else they have against him that hasn't been shared with the public so far.

That's what I love about posting on Websleuths. We can post our opinions about a defendant without the presumption of innocence that the judicial system requires.

 

[Melted]

Not one witness that has testified has placed Richard Allen on the trails let alone someone even matching his physical description.

Imo the states case is looking terrible.

 

[shonyakay]

So this is a view from the south end of the bridge and it's not a public road but a private drive? Is it gated?

I just checked. Yes the same road leads left under the bridge to the Weber property.

 

[al66pine]

WITNESS TESTIMONY. RELIABILITY?
Post 1126 by @joe jones on previous thread:
"Pity the state doesn't tell the jury eyewitness testimony is inherently unreliable then."

@joe jones IDK if ^ post is merely sarcastic.

If not, then ---
Respectfully, IN. law* requires IN. JUDGES to instruct the jury as to "the credibility of witnesses and the manner of weighing the testimony to be received."
Judges are obligated to instruct the jury TWO TIMES on these points:
- First, before prosecutor starts to present the state's case i.e., "PRELIMINARY Instructions" below and
- Again, either just before or after closing arguments, i.e., "FINAL Instructions" below.

ATM w a quick search, I have not located the text of St. of IN's exact jury instructions but can try tomorrow if I have time.

Now logically speaking (and not saying that "the law" always is), if prosecutor was required to tell the jury "eyewitness testimony is inherently unreliable" then seems defense would also be required to tell jury that some defense eyewitness testimony and evidence may also be inherently unreliable.

JUDGES give instructions to juries about witness credibility and weighing the evidence, among other matters. In Indiana, both by reading them ALOUD and by providing them to jury in WRITING.

____________________________________
*

Redirecting...

" Indiana Rules of Court
"Jury Rules
"Including Amendments Received Through January 1, 2021"

"RULE 20. PRELIMINARY INSTRUCTIONS
"(a) The court shall instruct the jury before opening statements by reading the appropriate instructions which shall include at least the following: ....
"(3) the credibility of witnesses and the manner of weighing the testimony to be received;...."

"RULE 26. FINAL INSTRUCTIONS
"(a) The court shall read appropriate final instructions, which shall include at least the following:
"(1) the applicable burdens of proof;
"(2) the credibility of witnesses; and,
"(3) the manner of weighing the testimony received.
"The court shall provide each juror with written instructions before the court reads them. Jurors shall retain the written instructions during deliberations."

 

[maamager]

Not one witness that has testified has placed Richard Allen on the trails let alone someone even matching his physical description.

Imo the states case is looking terrible.

imo they don’t necessarily need to be dead-on, because RA places himself there. literally. i see why the witnesses have given pause thus far but they are solidifying a timeline (for me, anyway)

 

[mrjitty]

That audio was unintelligible until it was cleaned up. How can one possibly tell that it didn't come from BG? Hypothetically, what are you suggesting exactly?

I just want to note one trick the D keeps playing here.

The D, and by extension its surrogates like Motta know full well what is on the video. They've been promoting since the 3 day hearing the idea there is no abduction on the video - then today pretend to find out that their suspicions were confirmed.

Of course for media and public watching for the first time, it has to be explained to them that they can only hear everything after enhancement. So the initial confusion is understandable. But the defence is not confused about this. They are intentionally trying to promote yet another conspiracy that the girls went with someone else and Bridge Guy is not the abductor.

As a defence that is fair enough - but let's not believe that people on team D only just learned about this.

MOO