Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #203

[Tricia]

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.

Richard Allen has been arrested and charged with the murders of Abby and Libby

ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to [email protected]

PICTURES OF ABBY AND LIBBY
Link to post with all threads 1 - 98 (Courtesy of margarita25)
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Link to Media Maps & Timelines *No Discussion*
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Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video
Hidden True Crime
Lawyer Lee
Grayhuze youtube channel
Murder sheet YouTube

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

NOTE - per Tricia and Sillybilly’s 5.28.2021 post here, JBC as a poi is now open for discussion in the Delphi thread.

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Tricia]

A consolidation of ADMIN & MOD notes (edited November 24, 2022):

- Members are allowed to discuss Richard Allen's voice as heard on the Gray Hughes podcast. Members may NOT link directly to RA's wife’s social media accounts.

- Speculation about RA’s possible involvement in other cases belongs in the OTHER CASES thread.

- Speculation that is not based on known fact is not allowed.

- Please use initials only for anyone other than victims or perps.

- If you have questions about rules or moderation, please do not ask them on the thread. Just jump off any post to use the Report feature to ask and a Mod or Admin will respond as soon as possible.

- Rumors are not allowed. If you can't link information to Websleuths approved sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

- Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. A thread specific exception may be made by Tricia or an Admin depending on geographical location in relation a crime.

- Photo alterations or side-by-side comparisons of unrelated pictures are not allowed.

 

[Tricia]

ADMIN NOTE:

Sorry folks, but statement analysis, body language analysis, amateur handwriting analysis is not allowed unless sourced to a credentialed, forensic specialist involved in the case under discussion.

This discussion is dedicated to Abby and Libby. Posts that do not relate directly to their case are off topic and such posts get removed. If you wish to discuss personal matters, please do so with your WS friends through PM or in the basement.

Also, the presumption of innocence is part and parcel of the judicial process. It does not apply to the general public who are entitled to express their opinion. Members are not here to be lectured or chastised by others for expressing their personal opinions. If you have an issue, use the Report feature and let Mods or Admins determine what is or is not okay to post.

Thanks.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator

Click here for The Rules

 

[shonyakay]

Sharing this prior post of mine for those who may have missed it.

February 13, 2017

At 12:43 p.m. three teen girls and a little girl take a picture on the Monon High Bridge.

At 1:26 p.m. Those same girls take a picture on a bench after having walked the entirety of the approximately one mile trail. They then head westbound toward Freedom Bridge.

At 1:27 p.m. A car that resembles Richard Allen's 2016 Black Ford Focus is seen traveling westbound on CR 300 N. Heading in the direction of the former CPS building.

In his first statement, Richard Allen, says he parked at the old farm bureau building. He says he headed toward Freedom Bridge. He said he was on the trails that day from 1:30 to 3:30 p.m.

In the vicinity of the Freedom Bridge the three teen girls see a man. They describe him as "kind of creepy", "not very tall", had his hands in his pockets, wearing blue or black jeans and a blue or black jacket. He had gray hair maybe a little brown.
He matched the man in the still photo from LG's cellphone video.

Richard Allen said at the Freedom Bridge he saw three females. One was taller and had brown or black hair. He then says he walked to the High Bridge.

Just before 1:46 p.m.
Betsy Blair observed four girls (The three teen girls and the little girl) walking on the bridge over State Road 25 as she was driving underneath.

At 1:46 p.m.
Betsy Blair's car is seen traveling eastbound.
She parks her car across from the Mears farm and starts walking toward the High Bridge.

At 1:49 p.m. Kelsi drops Libby and Abby off across from the Mears' farm.

When Betsy Blair makes it to the High Bridge she
sees a man wearing blue jeans and a blue jeans jacket standing on platform One approximately 50 feet away. He matched the man from the still photo from Libby's cellphone video.

Richard Allen said in his 2022 statement that at the High Bridge he walked out onto platform One. He described himself as wearing blue jeans and a blue or black jacket.

Betsy turns around to finish her walk and halfway between the high bridge and the Mears' farm parking area she sees two girls who she believes to be Libby and Abby. They were headed to the High Bridge.

At 2:05 p.m.
Libby takes a picture of the bridge in between the second and third platforms.

At 2:07 p.m.
Libby gets on the third platform and turns around to take a picture of Abby walking across High Bridge.

Around 2:10 p.m.
A man on his way to Delphi on State Road 25 observes a purple PT cruiser or a small suv type vehicle parked on the South side of the old CPS building. It was backed in as though to conceal it's license plate.

At 2:13 p.m.
While at the end of the High Bridge or very close to it Libby, who is turned toward the beginning of the bridge, begins recording video of a man on her cell phone. The man is coming from the direction of the beginning of the bridge. He is between the fifth and six platforms at the end of the bridge walking behind Abby.

At 2:14 p.m.
Betsy Blair's car is seen leaving westbound from the trails. As she passes by the old CPS building she sees a car parked in an odd manner. It is in the same general spot and backed in like the man observed around 2:10 p.m.

Around 2:28 p.m.
A man sees a small dark colored car parked at the old CPS building. He describes it as possibly a smart car.

At 2:32 p.m.
Libby's phone ceases movement, according to the Apple Health Data on her cellphone.

At 3:57 p.m.
Sarah Carbaugh is driving eastbound down CR 300 N when she sees a man walking westbound away from the Monon High bridge. He matches the man in the still photo from LG's cellphone video. He appears muddy, bloody, and like he's been in a fight.

There were other individuals on the trails or CR 300 N from 2:30 p.m. to 4:11 p.m. and none of these people saw a man resembling Richard Allen on the trails.

 

[Niner]

Wednesday, October 23rd:
*Trial continues (Day 5) (@ 9am ET) – IN – Abigail Joyce Williams (13) & Liberty Rose Lynn German (14) (Missing Feb. 13, 2017, found killed Feb. 14, 2017, after walking on a local hiking trail & were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the Monon High Bridge Trail, Delphi) – *Richard “Ricky/Rick” Matthew Allen (44 @ time of crime/50/now 52) arrested & booked (10/26/22) into the Carroll County Jail & charged & arraigned (10/28/22) with 2 counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims. Plead not guilty. Held without bond.
Amended charges (1/18/24/granted 3/18/24): 2 counts of felony murder (knowingly & intentionally), 2 counts of murder (while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims). Transferred to White County jail from Carroll County for security reasons. And was transferred (11/2/22) to IN. DOC at Westville Correctional Facility at a more secure facility. Was awaiting transfer to Westville Correctional Facility but Judge Gull denied move (6/15/23). She plans to take the arguments under advisement & will make a ruling on whether or not he will be moved out of Westville at a later date. Judge Gull denied move (7/5/23). On 12/6/23 Allen was transferred from Westville to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility (long term segregation). Allen was booked (5/6/24) into the Allen County Jail [for hearing on 5/7/24]. Allen back (5/7/24) to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility. Judge Gull granted transfer of custody to the Carroll County Sheriff [instead of IDOC] but will be held in Cass County jail until trial [8/1/24]. Carroll County
Trial began with jury selection on 10/14/24 & ended 10/15/24.
Trial began on 10/18/24. Mondays thru Fridays from 9am to 6pm. Saturdays from 9am to noon.
*12 jurors (7 women & 5 men) & 4 alternates [3 women & 1 man]. Jury is sequestered.
Allen County Judge Frances C. Gull presiding. Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland & Special Prosecutor James David Luttrull, Jr.
Andrew Baldwin & Bradley Rozzi are Allen’s public appointed attorneys & added Jennifer Auger [addressing the circumstances surrounding digital forensics].
Charges, case & court info from 4/19/21 thru 10/11/24 & Jury Selection Day 1-2 (10/14-10/15/24) & thru 10/16/24 & Trial Day 1-3 (10/18-21/24) reference post #594 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ers-richard-allen-arrested-201.726603/page-30
10/17/24 Update: Motions to be decided:
*State’s Motion in Limine- Tobin – Under advisement.
*Defense’s Response To State’s Motion in Limine-Tobin – Under advisement.
*Motion for Order on Designated Defense Representatives - ??
10/22/24 Tuesday, Trial Day 4: State witnesses:. Indiana State Police Trooper Brian Oleha [documented evidence at crime scene] back on direct. Indiana State Police Lt. Brian Bunner. [State forensic examiner; worked with ISP’s digital forensic unit]. Jeremy Chapman, an audio-visual forensic expert. Audio & video of two girls & a guy walking on a bridge was played for the jurors. Railly Voorheis [on trail that day]. Breann Welber [on trail that day]. Betsey Blair [on trail that day]. Steve Mullin, an investigator for the Carroll County Prosecutor’s Office.
For more info see post #677 (Day 4 blog) here;
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ers-richard-allen-arrested-201.726603/page-34
Trial continues on Wednesday, 10/23/24 @ 9am.

 

[Niner]

Thursday, October 24th:
*Trial continues (Day 6) (@ 9am ET) – IN – Abigail Joyce Williams (13) & Liberty Rose Lynn German (14) (Missing Feb. 13, 2017, found killed Feb. 14, 2017, after walking on a local hiking trail & were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the Monon High Bridge Trail, Delphi) – *Richard “Ricky/Rick” Matthew Allen (44 @ time of crime/50/now 52) arrested & booked (10/26/22) into the Carroll County Jail & charged & arraigned (10/28/22) with 2 counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims. Plead not guilty. Held without bond.
Amended charges (1/18/24/granted 3/18/24): 2 counts of felony murder (knowingly & intentionally), 2 counts of murder (while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims). Transferred to White County jail from Carroll County for security reasons. And was transferred (11/2/22) to IN. DOC at Westville Correctional Facility at a more secure facility. Was awaiting transfer to Westville Correctional Facility but Judge Gull denied move (6/15/23). She plans to take the arguments under advisement & will make a ruling on whether or not he will be moved out of Westville at a later date. Judge Gull denied move (7/5/23). On 12/6/23 Allen was transferred from Westville to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility (long term segregation). Allen was booked (5/6/24) into the Allen County Jail [for hearing on 5/7/24]. Allen back (5/7/24) to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility. Judge Gull granted transfer of custody to the Carroll County Sheriff [instead of IDOC] but will be held in Cass County jail until trial [8/1/24]. Carroll County
Trial began with jury selection on 10/14/24 & ended 10/15/24.
Trial began on 10/18/24. Mondays thru Fridays from 9am to 6pm. Saturdays from 9am to noon.
*12 jurors (7 women & 5 men) & 4 alternates [3 women & 1 man]. Jury is sequestered.
Allen County Judge Frances C. Gull presiding. Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland & Special Prosecutor James David Luttrull, Jr.
Andrew Baldwin & Bradley Rozzi are Allen’s public appointed attorneys & added Jennifer Auger [addressing the circumstances surrounding digital forensics].
Charges, case & court info from 4/19/21 thru 10/11/24 & Jury Selection Day 1-2 (10/14-10/15/24) & thru 10/16/24 & Trial Day 1-4 (10/18-22/24) reference post #99 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ders-richard-allen-arrested-202.726800/page-5
10/17/24 Update: Motions to be decided:
*Motion for Order on Designated Defense Representatives - ??
10/18/24 Docket update: Order or Judgment of the Court re Decorum Order regarding certain media entities. [On the first day of trial, the court claimed that photographers from the Associated Press, NBC & Gannett took photos of the jury. According to the Order, the court erased images from the cameras & banned the media members from the rest of the proceedings].
10/22/24 Docket update: Order or Judgment of the Court re Andrea Burkhart's Motion for Leave to intervene & for Public access to Court records-denied [Judge ruled that the YouTube personality who made the motion is not a party to the case and the court is not required to provide the recording].
10/22/24 Docket Update: Order or Judgment of the Court. [Judge Gull ruled against a request from the defense that a witness be allowed to testify regarding metallurgy & firearms. The state filed a motion to exclude his testimony, arguing that Dr. William Tobin is an expert in metallurgy, but not firearms. After review, Judge Gull ruled that Dr. Tobin is not an expert in firearms & has had no training in firearms identification & has never conducted a firearms examination. She ruled that his testimony is inadmissible]. For all motions see post #504, page 26, Thread 202.
10/23/24 Docket update: Motion to admit evidence of Odinism/Norse Paganism/Ritualistic killing filed by Allen. Defense has filed a motion to admit evidence in the court regarding Odinism & the theory the girls were murdered as a “ritualistic killing.”
10/23/24 Wednesday, Trial Day 5: State witnesses: Sarah Carbaugh, a lifelong Delphi resident who lived near the trail. Dr. Roland Kohr, a forensic pathologist based out of Terre Haute. He performed autopsies on Libby & Abby. First Sgt. Christopher D. Cecil of Indiana State Police [examined Libby's & Allen's phones].
For more info see post #152 (Day 5 blog) here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/...ders-richard-allen-arrested-202.726800/page-8
Trial continues on Thursday, 10/24/24 @ 9am.

 

[mrjitty]

To my mind the defence's 'second location theory' has now flopped on to shore alongside their SODDI conspiracy. We now have testimony the phone's last connection before 4.30 am was at 10pm. IMO this rules out absolutely the idea that it was taken anywhere else before 10

So you can argue around the houses about what the phone was doing in a lower power state between 10 and 4.30am but it ultimately does not matter, because we know where it was at 10pm.

Or are the enthusiasts going to argue that the real killers came back at 10, turned it off, then came back yet again with the girls at 4.30am, did a brutal double murder, staged the crime scene, and turned the phone back on because reasons?

(all without any log event)

 

[INfisherman]

Ok so another question then - the photo of AW on the bridge that they didn’t find on her phone - wouldn’t that also have ended up on the cloud? Or how about the selfies in the car in route? Not moo - genuine questions. Ty.

Depends on if they’re normal pics like many adults take using the default device’s camera app or an app like Snapchat, which is used to take and share the photos with specified recipients, then once viewed by recipients, deleted. I think it’s probably safe to say Snapchat is widely used by teens/young adults. I’m not an expert, user or authority just have a general understanding of one of the apps use via research.

Feel free to research further on Snapchat, as the in-depth/ technical answer(s) varies depending on settings & number of recipients: https://help.snapchat.com/hc/en-us/articles/7012334940948-When-does-Snapchat-delete-Snaps-and-Chats

No ideas on if or how forensics experts may or may not be able to retrieve old Snaps/chats nor how users might avoid exposing illegal activities using said app. IIRC, KAK was able to wipe quite a bit of his filth from a device or two once LE was onto him - refer to the documented interview between him & 2 investigators at Grissom AFB for source.

All JMO YMMV

ETA location of KAK interview for clarity.

 

[BexLuth0r]

To my mind the defence's 'second location theory' has now flopped on to shore alongside their SODDI conspiracy. We now have testimony the phone's last connection before 4.30 am was at 10pm. IMO this rules out absolutely the idea that it was taken anywhere else before 10

So you can argue around the houses about what the phone was doing in a lower power state between 10 and 4.30am but it ultimately does not matter, because we know where it was at 10pm.

Or are the enthusiasts going to argue that the real killers came back at 10, turned it off, then came back yet again with the girls at 4.30am, did a brutal double murder, staged the crime scene, and turned the phone back on because reasons?

(all without any log event)

I'm very interested in the defences alibi for Richard Allen. It'll be interesting to see what comes out when he admits to being on the trail but then leaves before the murder. If he doesn't have his phone now, can that be proved? Has anyone seen him between the time the girls got murdered and can verify this?
Or was he still on the trail and is he still the unluckiest man in the world to be there?
Does throwing all these random theories that don't make sense discredit the defence to the jury?

 

[mrjitty]

Yes, I can say with confidence that if someone had put the aeroplane mode on, they would have needed to unlock the phone first.

And last time someone tried to unlock the phone was 2:14pm, back when it still had connectivity.

'I don't know' | Investigator describes unexplained gap in data from Libby's phone | Day 5 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

>2:14:41 p.m. - Someone tries to unlock the phone

All MOO

(I will now stop talking about phones, and think about the girls. Justice for Abby and Libby.)

I think you should talk about phones more! Indeed I think I found a tech kindred spirit!

I really feel the defence and especially the likes of Bob Motta have been pushing an inference (phone must have been switched off) which is actually not supported by data that we know of.

Indeed it is the lack of that data which is the headache for Cecil. e.g if someone picked up the phone and switched it off, IMO you'd get activity on the phone logs like 'screen on' and 'off'. But he doesn't have that - so his inferences are based off the absence of such logs. There is a last access of the device. A last attempted access. Then no more movement.

So the lack of anything else happening leads him to conclude the phone was dropped or placed, then sits there turned on and losing power until 10pm when it connects for the 2nd to last time. In other words, the lack of human activity, but presence of autonomous activity leads to the inference that the phone was on and sitting forlornly in the forest for those 7 hours.

What happened between 10pm and 4.30pm Cecil cannot say precisely because nothing happened in that time that he can see. But he does know the phone was on and not moving until 10. So the most logical inference is it just sat there for another 6 and half hours with bingo battery.

What makes no sense at all IMO, is to claim someone turned it off at 10 and on at 6.30 because Cecil would have seen logs of that.

Maybe the defence will have an expert who can explain all this. Let's see.

MOO

 

[twall]

To my mind the defence's 'second location theory' has now flopped on to shore alongside their SODDI conspiracy. We now have testimony the phone's last connection before 4.30 am was at 10pm. IMO this rules out absolutely the idea that it was taken anywhere else before 10

So you can argue around the houses about what the phone was doing in a lower power state between 10 and 4.30am but it ultimately does not matter, because we know where it was at 10pm.

Or are the enthusiasts going to argue that the real killers came back at 10, turned it off, then came back yet again with the girls at 4.30am, did a brutal double murder, staged the crime scene, and turned the phone back on because reasons?

(all without any log event)

Cecil testified phone didn't power off at 10:32 so where was it at 10pm since "we" know? Don't include me in your we because i dont know where it was. JMO

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-murders-phone-pings-cast-doubt-on-defenses-alternate-site-killing-theory/

Edited to correct link

 

[sunshineray]

Depends on if they’re normal pics like many adults take using the default device’s camera app or an app like Snapchat, which is used to take and share the photos with specified recipients, then once viewed by recipients, deleted. I think it’s probably safe to say Snapchat is widely used by teens/young adults. I’m not an expert, user or authority just have a general understanding of one of the apps use via research.

Feel free to research further on Snapchat, as the in-depth/ technical answer(s) varies depending on settings & number of recipients: https://help.snapchat.com/hc/en-us/articles/7012334940948-When-does-Snapchat-delete-Snaps-and-Chats

No ideas on if or how forensics experts may or may not be able to retrieve old Snaps/chats nor how users might avoid exposing illegal activities using said app. IIRC, KAK was able to wipe quite a bit of his filth from a device or two once LE was onto him - refer to the documented interview between him & 2 investigators for source.

All JMO YMMV

Google AI had this to say when I searched...

"why do some Snapchat photos saved in the app's data and others aren't"

Answer:

"Some Snapchat photos save in the app's data while others don't because of the "Memories" feature - if you actively choose to save a snap to your Memories, it will be stored within the Snapchat app, while any snap that isn't saved manually will typically be deleted from the server after it's viewed, meaning it won't be stored in your Snapchat data."

Maybe the reason the pic of Abby wasn't in the data was because they were crossing that decrepit and dangerous bridge and Libby didn't want the evidence of it on her phone, she didn't mark it to save in her Memories? The friend they were chatting with saved it to hers.Sounds like young teen thinking to me. MO

 

[roeashl1]

Well, I'm also wondering now what is being considered as 'devices' ... phones, tablets for sure. Laptops? iTunes (what are those called lol... iPods! Sorry ), fitness devices...smart TVs? That could all add up if we're being technical.

So, thinking back, myself and my ex, 2 kids. 4 phones for sure. Tablets, 2 of us but could be 4 in a different family. 2 or more iPods. Then we replace phones/tablets every year or two depending on your cell service specials. So 4 phones make 8 in a few years time. We never traded them in. A fitbit. (I have a Fitbit I'm wearing plus my two previous sitting in a drawer...what do I do with them??). I could see it adding up to 23 in several years depending on what they're looking at. I probably have 15 "devices" in my house currently, old and current, depending on what counts as a "device". I can see it.

More curious about devices active during the timeframe of the crime. That IMO tells a story. If some are missing, then why? Is RA's phone missing (sounds like it wasn't recovered), but for example his wife's from that timeframe is there? Why? ...is my question.

 

[girlhasnoname]

It’s crazy I just went to find the leaked text to check on that and can’t find it anywhere, I remember vividly not long ago being able to find it with a simple google search. I will take your word for the stabbed in the heart part but the point still stands that it was pretty common knowledge they were killed with a knife back in 2017

It was not common knowledge to the general public back in 2017. Was there some discussion from searchers who found the girls and maybe the family? Yes, probably. But that information was kept close to the vest by LE and the general public did not know for sure until the RL SW.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Cecil testified phone didn't power off at 10:32 so where was it at 10pm since "we" know? Don't include me in your we because i dont know where it was. JMO

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-murders-phone-pings-cast-doubt-on-defenses-alternate-site-killing-theory/

Edited to correct link

The phone didn't move after 2:39pm, so we know, from his testimony, it was lying under a dead child at 10pm.

I'm sure it will all be much clearer when we finally hear RA telling the How of things in his staggering amount of confessions. Or maybe not though, since the phone was found. You'd think if RA knew about the phone he would have disabled it and taken it with him to dispose of. Maybe in all the mayhem he couldn't find the phone, heard DG calling out Libby's name and getting away was of the utmost importance, trumping everything else in his mind?

 

[INfisherman]

Google AI had this to say when I searched...

"why do some Snapchat photos saved in the app's data and others aren't"

Answer:

"Some Snapchat photos save in the app's data while others don't because of the "Memories" feature - if you actively choose to save a snap to your Memories, it will be stored within the Snapchat app, while any snap that isn't saved manually will typically be deleted from the server after it's viewed, meaning it won't be stored in your Snapchat data."

Maybe the reason the pic of Abby wasn't in the data was because they were crossing that decrepit and dangerous bridge and Libby didn't want the evidence of it on her phone, she didn't mark it to save in her Memories? The friend they were chatting with saved it to hers.Sounds like young teen thinking to me. MO

Thanks. I saw all that. I don’t quite trust AI responses & figured the link I provided to the source would be a good & logical gateway for further research & ability to see it wasn’t a straightforward singular answer, hence me mentioning settings as well. Admittedly, I was also being a bit lazy, given the time here (~100 mi south of Delphi).

I raised 2 boys who are now approaching 30 & I’m fully aware of how teens don’t want evidence of their "electronic discussions" potentially being found out by "nosy" parents. I was like that myself in some ways as a teen, minus the devices. Many kids hide parts their social lives from their parents, nothing new there.

 

[sunshineray]

I think it's not so much that he had so many accumulated, it's that he had so many accumulated but not the one he told DD he had that day on the trails. Wonder why? MO

 

[roeashl1]

Well, I'm also wondering now what is being considered as 'devices' ... phones, tablets for sure. Laptops? iTunes (what are those called lol... iPods! Sorry ), fitness devices...smart TVs? That could all add up if we're being technical.

So, thinking back, myself and my ex, 2 kids. 4 phones for sure. Tablets, 2 of us but could be 4 in a different family. 2 or more iPods. Then we replace phones/tablets every year or two depending on your cell service specials. So 4 phones make 8 in a few years time. We never traded them in. A fitbit. (I have a Fitbit I'm wearing plus my two previous sitting in a drawer...what do I do with them??). I could see it adding up to 23 in several years depending on what they're looking at. I probably have 15 "devices" in my house currently, old and current, depending on what counts as a "device". I can see it.

More curious about devices active during the timeframe of the crime. That IMO tells a story. If some are missing, then why? Is RA's phone missing (sounds like it wasn't recovered), but for example his wife's from that timeframe is there? Why? ...is my question.

They seized about 15 cellphones.
I think 2 computers, a few pagers, a garmin, an iPod, and at least one hard drive were mentioned in the warrant return.

At least 5 of the phones were flip phones, another 3 were specified as “old” then a few that were identified as like LG Verizon phone or Motorola smart phone with no more identifiers

the phones that were listed with model details were…
Samsung galaxy a42 releases on 11/11/2020
Google pixel 3a released 5/14/2019
LG cosmo ~ released in 2010 & 2011 version not specified
Nokia twist announced in 2009
Then another unspecified galaxy with a floral case

Seems like a lot of old phones. Pixel and galaxy in my mind were likely current phones based on arrest date. After those two most recent were over 10 years old and nothing identified that could have been his wife’s during that period like you mentioned …so doesn’t seem suspicious to me but idk

 

[girlhasnoname]

Where did the blood go then?

Per reports (LL being one) the pools of blood in the photos they saw the other day did not show enough blood on the ground.

The majority of Abby's blood from her neck wound was absorbed into the hoodie she was wearing and the ground under that. Per Ciscero's testimony from the 3 days of hearing held in late August.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Excerpt of text of Richard Allen interview with LE from 2022:

RICHARD ALLEN: "...It’s over. I was perfectly fine. I was cooperating. I was going to give you my phone and then, you know, when you started reading all these documents … I feel like you guys think I done this. So, I’m done. You do what you need to do. It’s your job. I understand that, but you better (expletive) leave my reputation out of it. So, you do what you need to do, and then, like I said, when you do find this guy, I’ll expect the apology.’

TODAY/Fox59: "It was noted that Allen had a different phone in 2017, however, that investigators never found. He no longer had that phone when police came calling in 2022 after finding an old report placed Allen on the trails on Feb. 13, 2017, leading police to decide to take a closer look into the man."

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-phone-pings-cast-doubt-on-defenses-alternate-site-killing-theory/

Interesting! 23 devices seized, but no phone from that particular day-- a day RA himself viewed as so important that he evidently contacted LE to note his presence there.

I opined from the beginning that LE wouldn't find the phone RA provided to Dan Dulin when he confessed to being on the trails that day.

Another brick in the guilty wall.

JMO