Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #203

[MassGuy]

Clear as mud though..

I wasn’t asking which quote was correct (fwiw I believe Holeman said that RA said: “it doesn’t matter, it’s over”, but I could be wrong and am not arguing one side or the other)

I was merely pointing out that two different MSM articles covering Holeman’s testimony provide two different quotes to describe the same, very short statement

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/de...-desk-put-richard-allen-on-the-radar-in-2022/

All jmo

He said it about his property, and he said it in regards to seeing his wife.

Sounds like a defeated man to me.

 

[BUF]

I think we need to hear and read several reporters before we assume that the phone expert didn't answer more fully. IMO I read one report and some testimony sounds awful--then another report explains it differently and it sounds like it was a good witness. Very confusing to follow this trial sometimes. IMO

I agree, this trial has been very difficult to follow. Each report we get about the same testimony can vary from one to another. We have to pick up bits and pieces from whatever is available….that leaves out so much detail. Not only are these reporters rushing through handwritten notes as they listen to testimony, but we are sometimes getting their interpretations of the testimony that can vary from reporter to reporter. You don’t get to see the demeanor of the witness or attorney nor the inflections in their voice.

…..but, it is better than nothing. I feel for the people reporting on this trial.

 

[rez125]

Liggett agrees on the stand that none of the witness descriptions match one another. Per AB.

Walked right into that question apparently, oof.

And later: "Just because they were different doesn't mean they're not reliable".

Oh dear.

 

[rez125]

He changed his height from 5'4 on the old licence to 5'6 on the one in 2017. It just seemed odd to the investigator, people don't usually change their height.

Hidden True Crime lunch live suggested perhaps he wore lifts.

JMO

They would if they were 5'4!

I don't find it odd at all. 5'4" is extremely short for a man.

 

[katydid23]

Sounds like a pretty busy scene for just one man to manage by himself. IMO

Just needs to have the gun on one girl which forces the other to comply and do what she's told.

 

[katydid23]

Liggett agrees on the stand that none of the witness descriptions match one another. Per AB.

Walked right into that question apparently, oof.

And yet they all agree that they saw Bridge Guy.

 

[al66pine]

RA's Stmt. About What Specifically?

Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with testimony from Dr. Roland Kohr and Sarah Carbaugh. Allen accused of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German.

www.wishtv.com

Some sloppy journalism on somebody’s part. Did Holeman say that Allen said: “why bother, it’s all over” or did Holeman say Allen said: “It doesn’t matter, it’s over”?

Splitting hairs some might say, but who knows, specific words and context matter.

You could interpret either or both as saying “it doesn't matter, I’m guilty” to “what difference does it make, they’ve already done the damage to my home.”

Jmo

@Rush4087 Thx for your post & interp. Agreeing w above, and that context is important.

Per link below Holeman testified that he
"... sat inside a car with Allen while the search was underway....
asked if RA "wanted to fill out a form for items damaged in the search.....
"Allen responded, “It doesn’t matter. It’s over.”

Not clear imo if RA's stmt referred to -
- making a claim for damage to the home & property, or
- the arrest (just made or imminent? I've forgotten the sequence), ruining his life, even without trial or conviction, or
- ___?
Or a nebulous admission of guilt for these two deaths to the ISP Lt? IDK.

Same possible meanings for the other reported phrasing imo.


Regardless *******WELCOME to the HAIRSPLITTERS CORNER.******

Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with testimony from Dr. Roland Kohr and Sarah Carbaugh. Allen accused of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German.

www.wishtv.com

 

[Megnut]

Does anyone else remember when Barbara MacDonald had a report for HLN about the search of RA's home, she reported that his neighbors told her one of the items they saw investigators carrying out were stacks of small books? Could these be the photo albums of Monon High Bridge pictures dating back to 2008 that were mentioned in court today?

Hmmm... I wonder what benefit they're might be to taking photographs and standing by while they're developed. I wonder if he extended free photos to himself, too.

JMO

 

[gremlin444]

Lol I see what you did there and I agree!
----------------------------------------------------------
However, on cross examination, defense attorney Bradley Rozzi argued that previous fishing licenses had listed Allen’s height at 5′ 6″. Then it was 5′ 4″ in 2016 and changed back to 5′ 6″ in 2017.

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-tip-marked-cleared-found-while-cleaning-out-desk-put-richard-allen-on-the-radar-in-2022/

You left out the very next paragraph in that article:

"Dulin explained from the stand that when printing old licenses, the most recent demographic data is on the top. Printing a license from 2005 in 2017, for example, would list his height as 5′ 6″ in the header information because that’s the 2017 entry. His report showed the most recent year-to-year, Dulin said. And that is what showed the change."

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Just needs to have the gun on one girl which forces the other to comply and do what she's told.

And that makes the gun evidence important. I'm looking forward to seeing more evidence about that. JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

Liggett agrees on the stand that none of the witness descriptions match one another. Per AB.

Walked right into that question apparently, oof.

And later: "Just because they were different doesn't mean they're not reliable".

Oh dear.

Exactly. Just because they're different doesn't mean they're not reliable. We had three people from the same group differing on clothing for instance, two of them saw a blue jacket while one thought he was wearing black.

But Allen acknowledges this sighting himself, details his clothing, and the witnesses recognized the man they passed as BG.

He didn't walk into anything. That's exactly what we've been saying. If this AB person is alleging that, then she's clueless.

 

[Pennysmom1]

Forgive me if this has been asked and talked about already, but when cameras aren't allowed in trials, isn't there usually a sketch artist allowed? Do we know if there has been one in this trial?

 

[otto]

You left out the very next paragraph in that article:

"Dulin explained from the stand that when printing old licenses, the most recent demographic data is on the top. Printing a license from 2005 in 2017, for example, would list his height as 5′ 6″ in the header information because that’s the 2017 entry. His report showed the most recent year-to-year, Dulin said. And that is what showed the change."

Did Richard Allen falsely increase his height in 2016 from 5'4" to 5'6", and then resume using his actual height the following year? If so, how does that relate to the murders?

What was the estimated height of suspect "bridge guy"; was there an estimated height? Just like Richard Allen or Mr. Kline could be a viable suspect?

 

[MassGuy]

Forgive me if this has been asked and talked about already, but when cameras aren't allowed in trials, isn't there usually a sketch artist allowed? Do we know if there has been one in this trial?

There has. I haven't seen a recent sketch though (past couple days).

 

[katydid23]

You could just say they moved the girls and left the phone there and brought them back later, I don’t believe in this second location abduction defense but they didn’t have to move the phone

The phone was found under Libby's shoe and Abby's body. Did they return in th middle of the night, in pitch darkness, and find the exact location of the cell phone? And then the killer left the bodies right there and didnt take the phone and discard it in the creek or somewhere along the way?

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Exactly. Just because they're different doesn't mean they're not reliable. We had three people from the same group differing on clothing for instance, two of them saw a blue jacket while one thought he was wearing black.

But Allen acknowledges this sighting himself, details his clothing, and the witnesses recognized the man they passed as BG.

He didn't walk into anything. That's exactly what we've been saying. If this AB person is alleging that, then she's clueless.

And didn’t another say it was tan?

 

[Spartygirl]

Does anyone expect there'd be DNA or Blood stains 6 years later?

Especially if he got rid of the one he wore on FEb 13 2017
and replaced it with a new one ???

 

[Rush4087]

He said it about his property, and he said it in regards to seeing his wife.

Sounds like a defeated man to me.

I agree he sounds like a defeated man. He said it after being asked if he wanted to fill out a property damage form, but I personally don’t think his comment pertained to physical damage to his house. That’s just my opinion

We just can’t tell specifically what Holeman said RA said by reading only the two linked articles.

Jmo

 

[katydid23]

Hmmm, I wonder why he’s reluctant to return to the stand?

Probably because he has been in retirement for 7 years already. He's probably feeling a bit old for having to jump back into a major trial. He likely doesn't remember things as well as he used to and would also have some difficulties with cross examination at his age and being immersed in retirement. He really has very little to add because he was not an investigator and he did not have a big hand in any of the case at hand now.

 

[katydid23]

There has. I haven't seen a recent sketch though (past couple days).

I think there was a 9 or 10 year old sketch artist the first day and they must have borrowed my granddaughter's crayon box.