Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #203

[al66pine]

Critical much?
So sorry, I thought I copied it to paste, not too good at using phone for that as my daughter was using laptop for school work. I will never do it again.
Please forgive me!

@twall
I'm not the OP but will offer this thought:
Ppl who make only small occasional errors while typing posts on phones deserve be CONGRATULATIONS.

I think that @m00c0w has clarified that height issue. (Eta. I corrected user name)

Yikes. Some of us struggle using screen keyboards on tablets or even laptops.
Hope my life never depends on typing much on a cell, other than phone #.

 

[justtrish]

P will more than likely come back later & address the varying descriptions & put more emphasis that eyewitnesses all agreed the man they all saw was BG. It’s not any more unrealistic or unreasonable than other claims being made or expected to be made IMO.

I’m a bit perplexed by the D claiming Liggett lying about the direction a car was traveling along 300N. What led up to that point? Were they reviewing the HHS security camera footage? I don’t recall much discussion about that here today. Anyone care to provide some background please?

I believe they accused him of lying about what direction RA told him he was traveling to the trail that day.

It seems they see RA's car on the camera arriving at a certain time from a certain direction so during questioning they were trying to get him to say he came from a certain way, but RA was not committing to any one thing. I can't recall the exact wording, but it was something like he sometimes comes from town and sometimes some other way.

 

[INfisherman]

But if he was pulling the records from 2022 why would it have showed a change in 2017? What am I missing?

Most recent year to year would have been 2021 to 2022 I would think- I’m obviously not understanding unless he didn’t get another fishing license after April 1,2017? I’m confused

Change in height was noted on license for 2017 going from 5’4" in 2016 to 5’6" in 2017. The P claimed RA had done that previously based on their investigation which obviously was done without involving the DNR (someone for D tried to reprint RAs old licenses to show RA had changed his height repeatedly). Dulin informed him if the licensee were to change their height at any point in time, the most current height would show on any license when reprinted regardless of how old the license was. Dulin then showed his report that evidently refuted what the P was claiming. I assume Dulin was able to access the actual entered heights from each year a license was purchased. Licensees do not have that ability to see the entire scope of info they enter through the years - at least that’s the way I interpret it.

ETA to clarify who printed license

 

[technicallymissing]

Thank you. Can you please report what if anything important you hear? Would very much appreciate it. At least a timestamp?

I don’t have the patience to listen to these long podcasts.

The Delphi Murders: Richard Allen on Trial: Day Six: "It Doesn't Matter, It's Over"

We discuss the sixth day of Richard Allen's trial. We saw Allen's knives and boxcutters and heard more from the woman who uncovered the tip that led to this...

murdersheetpodcast.com

So Murder Sheet didn't mention any juror reactions to Baldwin cross-examining Mullin that I heard. I'm not quite finished with the episode but they are finished talking about Mullin where I'm at and have moved onto the next witness (I'll edit if they happen to bring Mullin's cross back up later in the episode)

If you want to listen anyway they begin talking about Baldwin's cross-examination of Mullin at 45:17 (rundown of McLeland's direct examination comes first at 33:35) in the link above and go until about 51:47. It's mainly just the hosts describing the back and forth between Baldwin & Mullin (referring to it as "contentious") but I'm posting the juror questions below in case you're interested in those.

(beginning at 50:20)
Áine: This was a very contentious back and forth.
Kevin: Yes. There were a few juror questions-
A: I will say this. Nick McLeland kept on hitting Baldwin with things like he was "imputing facts into the question that are just inaccurate", "he's misquoting the transcript"- So he kept on accusing Baldwin himself of being inaccurate and mis-stating. Now we didn't have the transcript in front of us so we're not able to say.
K: We're not able to judge.
A: Who's right. But that was something, Baldwin was accusing Mullin of lying, well, McLeland was accusing Baldwin of lying. So we're having kind of this showdown here.
K: Juror questions to Steve Mullin. "Were you in an interview where Richard Allen said he did not remember which way he took?" And the answer was yes, he did say that. So. Another juror question: "Did you investigate how many black Ford Focuses there were in Delphi?" And the answer to that was no. And the other juror question was: "Did you look to see if his other car was on that video?" And the answer to that was yes, he did look, and I guess it wasn't.
A: Yeah, and that was the Ford 500.

After that they move onto the next witness, Tony Liggett.

<mod note - memberr asked that the time stamps be edited as follows to correct times above that were with Spotify's ads (and these are the direct-to-podcast time stamps)
45:17 to 46:35
51:47 to 53:02
50:20 to 51:35

 

[Arkay]

Yes, this picture posted by @steeltowngirl and reposted by @Inthedetails is adorable.

I’d guess Libby was maybe 6 or so years old here?

What is deeply upsetting to me is seeing her posing merrily here, and then the hideous dichotomy of how she was posed in death.

I don’t like that this comes to mind; but forlornly, it does.

Justice for you, Libby German. Justice for you, Abby Williams.

Libby, may the video you recorded on your last day put your killer away forever.

 

[Seattle1]

​

Sheriff says Richard Allen doesn't match witness descriptions of 'bridge guy' |Day 6| DELPHI DEBRIEF​

Our 13News team breaks down the key developments from Day 6 of the Delphi Murders trial. On Thursday of the Delphi murders trial, the focus of the testimony shifted as the state spent the day trying to place Richard Allen at the scene of the murders

 

[Boxer]

Sorry for the simple question but were police able to recover the phone Richard Allen was using at the time of the murders?

No. It is missing.

 

[INfisherman]

I believe they accused him of lying about what direction RA told him he was traveling to the trail that day.

It seems they see RA's car on the camera arriving at a certain time from a certain direction so during questioning they were trying to get him to say he came from a certain way, but RA was not committing to any one thing. I can't recall the exact wording, but it was something like he sometimes comes from town and sometimes some other way.

Thank you. Found out via an article it essentially ended up being nothing & genrally speaking, after some chest puffing & melodramatic claims, Liggett’s original statement apparently held true. I noticed no apology came from Baldwin for calling him a liar, or at least one that was reported. He even reportedly handed him the printout of the entire interview & asked Liggett to find it & read it for the court. Wonder if little tidbits like that enter a juror’s thoughts if that sort of behavior is repeated frequently by attorneys?

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-tip-marked-cleared-found-while-cleaning-out-desk-put-richard-allen-on-the-radar-in-2022/

 

[photographer4]

Q: has any testimony been given about whether they found anything in his car to tie him to the kids or the crime scene at all? Even after several years I would expect blood transfer to still be lingering. In carpet fibres, along seat belt, maybe IN the seat belt or in the door handle grooves (if any). I just don’t see how a “bloody” guy would get back into his car and NOT have transference! This is moo on the idea that there would still be transfer evidence likely in the car but also a genuine question. If there isn’t, then the State’s case is pretty weak (so far) imo.

 

[MassGuy]

Q: has any testimony been given about whether they found anything in his car to tie him to the kids or the crime scene at all? Even after several years I would expect blood transfer to still be lingering. In carpet fibres, along seat belt, maybe IN the seat belt or in the door handle grooves (if any). I just don’t see how a “bloody” guy would get back into his car and NOT have transference! This is moo on the idea that there would still be transfer evidence likely in the car but also a genuine question. If there isn’t, then the State’s case is pretty weak (so far) imo.

We know nothing like that connected him to the crime scene, and there's just no way in my mind that anything found at his house/car connects him to them either. I'm sure they would have lead with that in their opening, or the defense would have tried to get ahead of it.

Just imagine how cases were tried before video, digital evidence, and DNA! They did get convictions though.

 

[otto]

The witnesses recognized the man they passed as BG? Was there additional testimony from those witness? Because the two I heard about did not identify the guy they passed as BG, or as RA, or say that BG is RA.

It doesn't really matter what he looked like. There were 3 girls who saw one man during their hike to and from the Monon Bridge trail. Another woman, who was at the trail at the same time as Richard Allen, saw one man on the first platform of the bridge before she returned to her car. She saw the girls walking to the bridge when that man was behind her.

How many men were on the Monon Bridge trail between 1:30 and 3:30 pm on February 13, 2017? Evidence so far is one.

 

[MassGuy]

It doesn't really matter what he looked like. There were 3 girls who saw one man during their hike to and from the Monon Bridge trail. Another woman, who was at the trail at the same time as Richard Allen, saw one man on the first platform of the bridge before she returned to her car. She saw the girls walking to the bridge when that man was behind her.

How many men were on the Monon Bridge trail between 1:30 and 3:30 pm on February 13, 2017? Evidence so far is one.

Not only that, but men admittedly dressed like BG!

 

[Tricia]

The new Websleuth poll for today is up.
CLICK HERE to participate. You can vote once a day.
We'll put up a new poll daily at the end of court.
At the end of court on 10/24/24 the results are,
Guilty 68.1%
Not Guilty 9.4%
I Don't Know 22.5%

 

[INfisherman]

Actually re: the fishing license height/weight change. I'm listening to Murder Sheet's recap for today and they report that RA didn't change the height and weight when he got the fishing license, he did it several months later. So I'd say some time in the summer he goes back in and changes that information.

That to me is slightly more interesting because why does it matter to go back in later to change some data on this fishing license info online? Weight I can understand, but height is odd.

Well, some feel he’s an honest person. Maybe he really is, particularly when it comes to his angling endeavors? Just don’t ask him how long he was fishing, as that might end up becoming an issue at some point. MOO

 

[photographer4]

We know nothing like that connected him to the crime scene, and there's just no way in my mind that anything found at his house/car connects him to them either. I'm sure they would have lead with that in their opening, or the defense would have tried to get ahead of it.

Just imagine how cases were tried before video, digital evidence, and DNA! They did get convictions though.

I did ask last night but I will ask again: without dna, Ives seemed to think old school police work could solve this case. I linked last night to where he said this so pls search my posts for it as I don’t have it handy right now. Does anyone think we have any idea what he meant when he said this?

 

[INfisherman]

TL was assuming RA must have driven a certain direction because he was going to the trails, and the defense was arguing that he actually left the trails at that time, is my understanding. The defense was accusing TL of manipulating the facts to suit his own narrative (vehicle seen driving down the road was actually leaving the trails, not going to the trails). My biggest issue with that take is that RA initially said he got there around 1:30, the timeframe of the girls running into him lines up with him arriving around that time... and therefore it makes sense that it's his car arriving shortly before then.

JMO

Thanks - didn’t see your response due to me posting & forum updating.

 

[photographer4]

It doesn't really matter what he looked like. There were 3 girls who saw one man during their hike to and from the Monon Bridge trail. Another woman, who was at the trail at the same time as Richard Allen, saw one man on the first platform of the bridge before she returned to her car. She saw the girls walking to the bridge when that man was behind her.

How many men were on the Monon Bridge trail between 1:30 and 3:30 pm on February 13, 2017? Evidence so far is one.

But it doesn’t make him the killer just because he happened to be there.

I used to think I would want to help police if I had been somewhere where a crime happened. Now? I don’t think I want to at all and certainly not without legal counsel present!

Moooo

 

[MassGuy]

But it doesn’t make him the killer just because he happened to be there.

I used to think I would want to help police if I had been somewhere where a crime happened. Now? I don’t think I want to at all and certainly not without legal counsel present!

Moooo

If you're concerned about reporting a crime and then getting charged with a crime, then don't commit that crime before putting yourself there at the exact time in question, wearing the same clothes as the suspect, and then change your story in a transparent effort to cover your tracks.

That will draw suspicion, which will lead to more digging.

 

[TristanP]

P will more than likely come back later & address the varying descriptions & put more emphasis that eyewitnesses all agreed the man they all saw was BG. It’s not any more unrealistic or unreasonable than other claims being made or expected to be made IMO.

I’m a bit perplexed by the D claiming Liggett lying about the direction a car was traveling along 300N. What led up to that point? Were they reviewing the HHS security camera footage? I don’t recall much discussion about that here today. Anyone care to provide some background please?

When did any of the eyewitnesses say the man they saw was BG? I have not heard even one of them testify to that.

 

[otto]

P will more than likely come back later & address the varying descriptions & put more emphasis that eyewitnesses all agreed the man they all saw was BG. It’s not any more unrealistic or unreasonable than other claims being made or expected to be made IMO.

I’m a bit perplexed by the D claiming Liggett lying about the direction a car was traveling along 300N. What led up to that point? Were they reviewing the HHS security camera footage? I don’t recall much discussion about that here today. Anyone care to provide some background please?

It sounds like the question is about which direction the muddy bloody man was walking, not the witness. I'm sure the witness recalls whether she was driving to or from home. Does the defence want to portray the muddy bloody man as walking towards the cemetery path; towards the girls he just murdered, rather than towards his car at 3:57 pm on Feb 13, 2017?