Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #203

[Inthedetails]

I'm wondering about the evidence of information about the crime that only RA knew about. Would that have been the revelation that he knew there were 3/4 girls on the trail who were witnesses?

I expect it would be info about the crime scene itself. The parents of the four witnesses knew they were there, so that wouldn't be known only to the perp.

jmo

 

[FromGermany1]

I think RA's finding God in jail is an act, just like his bowing his head and reading his Bible in the Courtroom. Not intended as a denigrating religious statement, just my opinion of this Defendant's actions.

To impress his wife and mom, maybe. Mouth shut, reading the bible, and all will be good. MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Here, I am not quoting Yemelyan, but the news article linked to the post.

I'm sure no one needs another example of the difficulty of understanding what is going on in the courtroom.

Rozzi, according to other sources, did not ask Dulin if he saw deer standing in the woods near the bridge, that doesn't even make sense. He asked Dulin if he saw the deer STANDS in the woods, as other have stated, to show evidence of deer hunting in that location. The point being, hunters ofter have hand guns as well as long guns. But the judge cut off his questioning of the deer stands. For those that don't understand, deer stands are boards, planks, steps, ladders, platforms, etc, sometimes crude but also manufactured fold up metal chairs or stands, fasten to tree trunks, to enable hunters to ambush deer.

In regard to understanding what's going on in the courtroom:
Yemelyan's post that you quoted was from this linked article. I'd like your opinion on how you think the jury may have reacted to this comment from the article. Do you think they will understand what impeachment means and why the judge thought that was where Rozzi was going?
(snip)
"Judge Fran Gull stepped in and said to Rozzi, “If you’re going to impeach him, impeach him properly.”"

Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with testimony from Dr. Roland Kohr and Sarah Carbaugh. Allen accused of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German.

www.wishtv.com

 

[JAY CLUCK]

I... just... mind has been boggled. I have never encountered a scenario in which a person who is not, you know, a box cutter distributor, keeps about 25 box cutters in their home. I am guessing not all of them in their original packages either?

Anxiety, fear of being found out or not... imagine if RA is the perp. And choosing to keep dozens of tools that every time he looks at them, or uses them, he get transported back to the moment he took the life of those innocent girls.

It makes me feel unwell.

All MOO

I’m not making a statement on the case just in general and for whatever it’s worth. No that isn’t odd if you work retail stocking. It’s like if you work in an office job or carry clipboard in a warehouse. How many pens end up at home even if many are accident. If you’re a carpenter probably have a container for screws in pockets when you get home. Etc. murder weapon if true was likely just convenience, not fetish imo.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Bullets are different from unspent cartridges though. Hunters don't usually leave unspent cartridges behind. And earlier testimony was that no other bullets or cartridges were found in the immediate area.

Which speculation are you referring to?

I would add that hunters don’t hunt with handguns, so I don’t get this obsession by the defense to try to paint a picture of a forest floor covered in .40 ammo. My granddaddy used to carry a handgun when hunting or fishing to take care of other things like snakes and snapping turtles, but he seldom had to use it.
The defense cannot deflect from the fact that RA stated he had never been in the area of the crime scene and had never loaned his gun to anyone, yet that unspent bullet at the crime scene cycled through RA’s gun, and ballistics is not junk science.

 

[JAY CLUCK]

In regard to understanding what's going on in the courtroom:
Yemelyan's post that you quoted was from this linked article. I'd like your opinion on how you think the jury may have reacted to this comment from the article. Do you think they will understand what impeachment means and why the judge thought that was where Rozzi was going?
(snip)
"Judge Fran Gull stepped in and said to Rozzi, “If you’re going to impeach him, impeach him properly.”"

Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with testimony from Dr. Roland Kohr and Sarah Carbaugh. Allen accused of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German.

www.wishtv.com

The jury will either love or hate this judges bias. Love it if the P is solid and they see him as scum. Hate it they think he’s being railroaded through. So far they’ve been very observant and asking tons of questions that are doubtful of P or seek to plug holes in Ps lines imo

 

[Inthedetails]

I think they have been building a solid case so far, imo. Brick by brick. They illustrated why Bridge Guy is the killer.

And now they are showing us that Bridge Guy is actually RA. RA puts himself there on the bridge at the same time as BG, and admits to be wearing the same clothes as BG. His jeans even fit exactly like BG's, with the material clumped up at th bottom because of his short legs.

RA never said anything about seeing another male there on the bridge while he was there, or even one on the trail. And there was no male that came forward and described seeing RA there.

The ONLY man on the bridge was RA. His car was backed in at the CPS building, which is apparently the way he likes to park.

The girls said on the video that BG had a gun. And then we find out that RA has a gun just like the on that ejected a cartridge found between the victim's bodies. So he was dressed exactly like Bridge Guy, has short legs like BG, was on the bridge at the same time, a car like his was parked nearby, and he owned the same type of gun as BG.

If we add 60+ confessions to the above 'coincidences' it makes me lean GUILTY.

Brick-by-brick is a great way of describing how the prosecution is literally building the case.

You can't see a big structure when you're focusing on an individual brick and think "well, this little thing doesn't matter." But then you stand back and see all the little things built a huge wall.

Guilty.

jmopinion

 

[technicallymissing]

I... just... mind has been boggled. I have never encountered a scenario in which a person who is not, you know, a box cutter distributor, keeps about 25 box cutters in their home. I am guessing not all of them in their original packages either?

Anxiety, fear of being found out or not... imagine if RA is the perp. And choosing to keep dozens of tools that every time he looks at them, or uses them, he get transported back to the moment he took the life of those innocent girls.

It makes me feel unwell.

All MOO

The reveal of the two dozen boxcutters almost makes me wonder if a boxcutter was a key part of the fantasy for him. Probably not given there were loads of knives found also, but makes you think!

 

[Yemelyan]

Here, I am not quoting Yemelyan, but the news article linked to the post.

I'm sure no one needs another example of the difficulty of understanding what is going on in the courtroom.

Rozzi, according to other sources, did not ask Dulin if he saw deer standing in the woods near the bridge, that doesn't even make sense. He asked Dulin if he saw the deer STANDS in the woods, as other have stated, to show evidence of deer hunting in that location. The point being, hunters ofter have hand guns as well as long guns. But the judge cut off his questioning of the deer stands. For those that don't understand, deer stands are boards, planks, steps, ladders, platforms, etc, sometimes crude but also manufactured fold up metal chairs or stands, fasten to tree trunks, to enable hunters to ambush deer.

Thanks for clarifying that you weren't quoting me, but the portion of the MSM article contained in my post. Yesterday I tried to bring updates here from the trial from sources that are allowed for those who couldn't follow as closely (yesterday, I had time to do that). What I wasn't doing - and hopefully all who read my posts understood - is offering any commentary, or changing things that appeared to possibly be mistakes or mishearings (aka the Carroll County Comet reporter referring to a "brand of bullet" or the initial reports from WISHTV saying that the tip sheet said "Whiteland" instead of "Whiteman"). I tried to just deliver the news coming directly from the court from these sources as best I could and hopefully this was valuable to some.

 

[Inthedetails]

I’m not making a statement on the case just in general and for whatever it’s worth. No that isn’t odd if you work retail stocking. It’s like if you work in an office job or carry clipboard in a warehouse. How many pens end up at home even if many are accident. If you’re a carpenter probably have a container for screws in pockets when you get home. Etc. murder weapon if true was likely just convenience, not fetish imo.

I agree. I'm not shocked that he has a stash of box cutters at home given his job in retail, but it does tell me he has weapons easily at this disposal and he is very comfortable using them.

jmo

 

[Salah11]

I’m not making a statement on the case just in general and for whatever it’s worth. No that isn’t odd if you work retail stocking. It’s like if you work in an office job or carry clipboard in a warehouse. How many pens end up at home even if many are accident. If you’re a carpenter probably have a container for screws in pockets when you get home. Etc. murder weapon if true was likely just convenience, not fetish imo.

There is a big difference between a harmless pen and having loads of knifes from work at home.

If this was just him being forgetful why didn’t he return any of these box cutters back to work?

Moo

 

[arielilane]

13 Thing To Know From The Delphi Murders Trial Today - Oct 24 Sorry for getting this out late. Long day at the office.

1. Today the State focused all testimony squarely on Richard Allen, telling jurors how they zeroed in on the defendant & why they arrested him.


2. Jurors learned Allen “fell thru the cracks” of the state’s Delphi Murders investigation, resulting in a 5-yr delay in his arrest. Investigators literally forgot Allen called their tipline 3 days after the murders to report being on the Monon High Bridge the day of the murders.




3. It was a volunteer file clerk who discovered a summary of Allen’s 2/18/17 interview with a DNR investigator that triggered his 2022 arrest. The file clerk testified today, as well as the investigator who conducted the 2017 interview discovered in an old file box.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849665198136660095

4. The investigator met Allen in this grocery store parking lot. He said nothing from the interview seemed unusual & Allen’s file was marked “CLEARED.” Again, Allen called police ON HIS OWN to say he was near the crime scene the day he allegedly killed 2 girls. Think about that.


5. Former Delphi Police chief Steve Mullin & sheriff Tony Liggett both told jurors that after finding the 2017 RA interview in 2022, they quickly re-interviewed Allen & searched his home where they seized lots of knives & a gun later linked to a bullet casing at the crime scene.


6. ISP Lt. Jerry Holeman testified that during the search, when Allen was told he could file a complaint if investigators damaged his house,Allen replied “It doesn’t matter, it’s over.” Defense attorneys said the testimony from Holeman lacked importance context.


7. Sheriff Liggett told jurors the recovered gun allegedly linked to the crime scene bullet casing “put us over the edge” to arrest Allen. But he said even without that evidence, he had enough to arrest RA based on witness statements placing Allen near the crime scene. And then…


8. The defense went on the attack. During cross examination, atty Brad Rozzi asked Liggett about the statement of witness Betsy Blair, who described seeing Bridge Guy (the man seen on Libby’s phone & who the State says is Allen). It led to a remarkable admission by the sheriff.


9. Rozzi: “Betsy Blair saw a man who was boyish and beautiful with brown poofy hair in his 20s or 30s…Her description does not match the description of Richard Allen.”Liggett: “But neither do the 3 girls’ [descriptions] of Richard Allen.”Rozzi: “Exactly. Right.”


10. Yes, the sheriff pointed out for the jury that all four State witnesses who saw Bridge Guy on the day of the murders described seeing someone who does NOT look like the defendant. Not a great moment for the prosecutor who otherwise made some progress today.


11. The defense also pushed back hard on witnesses who seemed to spin testimony by leaving out important context or details. Atty Andy Baldwin scolded witness Steve Mullin:“You are so desperate to place Richard Allen’s car traveling west on 300N that…you lied to this jury.”


12. Jurors also got to see/hear a super enhanced version of the Bridge Guy video captured on Libby’s phone. BG is behind Abby. Liggett says he hears:Abby: Is he right here? Don’t leave me up here.Libby: That be a gun. There’s no path here.BG: GuysGirl: Hi.BG: Down the hill.


13. Today @EmilyWTHR & I were joined in the courtroom by 13News legal analyst Katie Jackson-Lindsay. She is amazing at picking up on legal nuances & breaking down complex interactions in the courtroom. See for yourself in our Day 6 Delphi Debrief. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XeJpTO6TW2Q

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849690711668527144

 

[JAY CLUCK]

There is a big difference between a harmless pen and having loads of knifes from work at home.

If this was just him being forgetful why didn’t he return any of these box cutters back to work?

Moo

huh? It’s a tool for work in a stockists life.

I dunno. Why don’t the pens go back. Or a carpenter return the oops forgotten screws in his pocket. Weird question imo.

I agree. I'm not shocked that he has a stash of box cutters at home given his job in retail, but it does tell me he has weapons easily at this disposal and he is very comfortable using them.

jmo

Agreed.

 

[FrostedGlass]

The jury will either love or hate this judges bias. Love it if the P is solid and they see him as scum. Hate it they think he’s being railroaded through. So far they’ve been very observant and asking tons of questions that are doubtful of P or seek to plug holes in Ps lines imo

Do you think they will wonder what "impeachment" means? I wish we had a complete list of questions they asked.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Thanks for clarifying that you weren't quoting me, but the portion of the MSM article contained in my post. Yesterday I tried to bring updates here from the trial from sources that are allowed for those who couldn't follow as closely (yesterday, I had time to do that). What I wasn't doing - and hopefully all who read my posts understood - is offering any commentary, or changing things that appeared to possibly be mistakes or mishearings (aka the Carroll County Comet reporter referring to a "brand of bullet" or the initial reports from WISHTV saying that the tip sheet said "Whiteland" instead of "Whiteman"). I tried to just deliver the news coming directly from the court from these sources as best I could and hopefully this was valuable to some.

At the top of the post, I put, so there is no confusion and use quotations.
From the article:

 

[JAY CLUCK]

Do you think they will wonder what "impeachment" means? I wish we had a complete list of questions they asked.

They seem like a smart jury but I can’t say with any certainty. JG certainly wasn’t going to explain it imo.

 

[katydid23]

So far, the State has nothing imo. The witnesses don't even seem to have described anyone who resembled RA!! MOOO

Let me ask you a question---RA told Dulin that he was on the bridge, dressed like Bridge Guy at the same time Bridge Guy was there.

Why didn't RA ever see Bridge Guy?

Why didn't the witnesses say they saw TWO guys wearing jeans that bunched at their ankles and wearing blue jackets on the trails that afternoon?

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

The jury will either love or hate this judges bias. Love it if the P is solid and they see him as scum. Hate it they think he’s being railroaded through. So far they’ve been very observant and asking tons of questions that are doubtful of P or seek to plug holes in Ps lines imo

It's not important if the jury hates or loves any judge's bias, what's important is what the court of appeal thinks. We should only be concerned with whether or not it could jeopardize a guilty verdict.

 

[JAY CLUCK]

Why didn't the witnesses say they saw TWO guys wearing jeans that bunched at their ankles and wearing blue jackets on the trails that afternoon?

Because they saw boyishly good looking, poofy haired young men and square jawed blonde athletic men.

 

[Trebor5591]

It would be very interesting to know, WHO put "cleared" on RA's file, when even the big mistake with the surname (Whiteman/Allen) hadn't been discovered at that time.

When DC spoke of a mistake being made by LE staff and not made with intention of course, was that in 2019 within the PC? They changed the direction of their investigation, he said. Whiteman/Allen and the wrong filing obviously wasn't meant, but another mistake. Wonder, which error was mentioned by DC.

I never really understood the "new direction" that the investigation took, as mentioned by Carter at the news conference. Was is just the new sketch? Was is just a ploy to make the killer think they had new information and to make him worried? Or something else?