Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #203

[katydid23]

I agree that RA is the killer. Will he be found guilty? I have my doubts. The prosecution's case is not extremely strong and RA's attorneys seem pretty good, IMO.

I think we need to wait until their case has been fully laid out. JMO

 

[MassGuy]

There's a very simple way of looking at the witness identifications that removes all of the noise here. The defense has focused on issues regarding clothing, height, and apparent changing accounts (lady who saw him covered in mud/blood). Ligette went out of his way to bolster this argument, tripping all over himself.

The most important witnesses are the group of 3 teens with the child. Allen got the number wrong it seems, but the timing fits perfectly, and he acknowledges this kid by mentioning something to the effect of them being babysat (pretty sure that's the characterization he used).

So three people (this group) who definitely saw the same person, had varying descriptions (two of them got his jacket/jeans right but other details wrong. They saw the photo of BG and recognized them as this same man. Even if one has an issue with the inconsistencies within the account, the odds of Allen passing another group of teens with a child when no other group came forward, seals the deal.

They saw BG, Allen saw them, BG - Allen.

 

[BexLuth0r]

They had plenty of people with which to get tunnel vision here. From Logan to Kline, they spent an incredible amount of time and manpower methodically investigating other potential suspects. That Kline investigation particularly, was a sprawling one. The issue was that they couldn't connect either of them to the trail that day.

Those guys ticked a ton of boxes (certainly profiled better), but the evidence just didn't get them there.

Then they found a guy who did tick those boxes. He said he was there that day. He said he was dressed like BG. Witnesses saw him there and he saw those witnesses there. The timing lined up. That cartridge matched.

I am no fan of certain parts of this investigation, the power struggle that seems to have taken place (I'm more than annoyed by the apparent lack of FBI involvement), nor certain personnel (Ligette in particular reminds me of a caricature of a small town southern sheriff).

I've said it before, but I hate on some level the fact that this guy is the one on trial. Not because the evidence shows he didn't do it, but because he doesn't fit on multiple levels (age, criminal history, etc). But the evidence is the evidence, and cannot be ignored.

My concern is not that they have the wrong man, rather, if they can prove it. A long way to go though.

This! Why would they railroad a guy that really doesn't fit the ideal murder suspect? It would have been so much easier for them to pin it on Logan or Kline. So much easier and they would probably face a lot less criticism if they said it was one of those two...

 

[FrostedGlass]

No I am saying this with my full chest as a person who's lived with ppl who worked packaging in the post office for years. Extra rolls of tape everywhere? Yes. A couple of pocketknives, a multitool, a box cutter or three? Yes.

A quarter of a hundred? No.

JMO

Maybe he had great expectations of being the most prolific box cutter killer in history.
Crazy serial killer stuff.

 

[m00c0w]

True, but the bodies were found on private property & therein lies the rub. The only thing I could think of to counter that would be possible hunting regulations that could stipulate no hunting within a certain distance from public areas. The gist being not to fire a gun towards areas where people would be located. But the D got Dulin to agree tree stands were in the area without specifying what "in the area" might entail - within feet, yards, miles?

I think the bigger takeaway for this is from the crime scene investigator that testified that no other unspent cartridge was found anywhere within the massive search area. Just the one.

DD is a conservation officer, likely used to land that is well-hunted. This is not that. It was a strategic question by the defense that is ultimately fairly misleading in the relevant context.

JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

No I am saying this with my full chest as a person who's lived with ppl who worked packaging in the post office for years. Extra rolls of tape everywhere? Yes. A couple of pocketknives, a multitool, a box cutter or three? Yes.

A quarter of a hundred? No.

JMO

I am assuming the box cutters came in boxes and he had a box of box cutters at home.

jmo

 

[MassGuy]

I think the bigger takeaway for this is from the crime scene investigator that testified that no other unspent cartridge was found anywhere within the massive search area. Just the one.

DD is a conservation officer, likely used to land that is well-hunted. This is not that. It was a strategic question by the defense that is ultimately fairly misleading in the relevant context.

JMO

It was smart because they likely got this guy to answer in the context of finding spent cartridges, which he would of course stumble upon all the time.

If the prosecution didn't counter with the fact that this was unspent, then they dropped the ball.

 

[mrjitty]

There's a very simple way of looking at the witness identifications that removes all of the noise here. The defense has focused on issues regarding clothing, height, and apparent changing accounts (lady who saw him covered in mud/blood). Ligette went out of his way to bolster this argument, tripping all over himself.

The most important witnesses are the group of 3 teens with the child. Allen got the number wrong it seems, but the timing fits perfectly, and he acknowledges this kid by mentioning something to the effect of them being babysat (pretty sure that's the characterization he used).

So three people (this group) who definitely saw the same person, had varying descriptions (two of them got his jacket/jeans right but other details wrong. They saw the photo of BG and recognized them as this same man. Even if one has an issue with the inconsistencies within the account, the odds of Allen passing another group of teens with a child when no other group came forward, seals the deal.

They saw BG, Allen saw them, BG - Allen.

Agreed.

If you disagree with this conclusion, you have to actually identify some reasonable alternate version. Simply picking holes in details here or there doesn't help.

IMO it is inescapable then RA is BG, unless he can raise doubt that he already left by 1.30

 

[MassGuy]

Agreed.

If you disagree with this conclusion, you have to actually identify some reasonable alternate version. Simply picking holes in details here or there doesn't help.

IMO it is inescapable then RA is BG, unless he can raise doubt that he already left by 1.30

It’s funny how he provided an ideal time window for the killer in the first interview, and then the worst possible one in the second…

 

[MrsWatson]

Link to Indy Star Coverage Blog

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I would guess that she washed his cloths and could tell the difference between old and new just by looking and touching it.

Different households are really different in how they handle laundry, clothes and closet space- all my kids have helped with laundry from a young age and after about 10-12 could and did do their own- outfits and jackets get lent out and disappear and occasionally show up and I don’t always know where things went or came from

my partner and I have separate closets and take stuff to donate and/or buy new stuff independently-

Coats typically go to the cleaners vs washing machine

Everyone goes to thrift stores to purchase items from time to time

All this to say- assuming that a spouse has close tabs on all things clothing, especially seasonal clothing- might be very true in some households while not be a universal experience or valid assumption in all households - moo

 

[Elley Mae]

True, but the bodies were found on private property & therein lies the rub. The only thing I could think of to counter that would be possible hunting regulations that could stipulate no hunting within a certain distance from public areas. The gist being not to fire a gun towards areas where people would be located. But the D got Dulin to agree tree stands were in the area without specifying what "in the area" might entail - within feet, yards, miles?

Deer stand on public or private property?
Iirc the girls were on private property, it was that owner that was at first looked at. Which was sad.

 

[m00c0w]

Agreed.

If you disagree with this conclusion, you have to actually identify some reasonable alternate version. Simply picking holes in details here or there doesn't help.

IMO it is inescapable then RA is BG, unless he can raise doubt that he already left by 1.30

This would be why the defense implied there’s no evidence BG actually kidnapped the girls in the opening statement, and tried to say it may have actually been someone else not seen on camera. They have to know it’s a hard sell that RA is not BG when you look at the cumulative facts.

JMO

 

[ClearAhead]

TMS @39:30 Day 6

Detailed description of RA’s odd behavior, growing worse, trial is having a negative impact, deteriorating before our eyes, wonders if trial runs as long as expected how he will endure.

Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covering true crime. We have broken national news on major cases, like the Delphi murders and the Burger Chef murders. We also cover plenty of other...

art19.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

Does anyone else remember when Barbara MacDonald had a report for HLN about the search of RA's home, she reported that his neighbors told her one of the items they saw investigators carrying out were stacks of small books? Could these be the photo albums of Monon High Bridge pictures dating back to 2008 that were mentioned in court today?

Yes. However there is no record that I've seen of those items being taken, so I discredited that part of her story. Some of the items being mentioned now are not listed in the search warrant return.

I have questions about that.

 

[steeltowngirl]

IMO The part I emphasized is really problematic for the P's timeline.
[snip]

"Important note from interview, Allen changes timeline: Allen recalled arriving to trail at noon and leaving at 1:30 p.m. However, in the 2017 DNR report, Allen said he was in the area from 1:30 p.m. to 3:30 p.m.
The girls were dropped off at 1:40 pm."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849593467699331324

How is it problematic for the P’s timeline?
Allen changed his own story to distance himself.
Allen was already in the area when the girls were dropped off.

I see a huge problem here - for Richard Allen.

jmo

 

[snooptroop88]

How are eyewitnesses “half the case”? Their purpose was to corroborate a timeline. They did that. Days ago. We’ve now moved on to the rest of the case, including ME reports that exclude the defense’s theory, RA admitting he was in the right place at the right time in the right clothes, the revelation (that clearly rattled the defense) that the ME believes the murder weapon could have been only one knife, consistent with a box cutter, that the phone was never turned off and activity on the phone is consistent with the state’s timeline… and so on.

Eyewitnesses are only one brick in the growing wall, as has been said repeatedly by others here.

JMO

Agreed. Richard Allen gave us his timeline. The D wants us to pity poor crazy Rick for his supposed rantings and ravings, elicited by vicious corrupt prison staff and the horrors of his incarceration, but RA supplied his timeline before prison was ever realistically in the picture. (After he set up that great interview arrangement in the Save-a-Lot parking lot.)

The real star witness for the prosecution is ironically Richard Allen, jmo. Prediction is that he's going to be a lot, lot more effective for the P than he was for his own defense, and I have no sympathy for him because I think he's a ruthless, shifty murderer who may have pulled certain crafty maneuvers that channel SK vibes.

We won't have to wait too long to hear what RA had to say about himself, but I'm sure like others on here that the P will leave RA's own testimony against himself until last, so the D has to walk right into that horror show as they struggle to portray Ricky as an innocent boy scout being persecuted by LE. In this particular case, it will resonate with the jurors if RA does not take the stand, moo.

 

[Inthedetails]

This! Why would they railroad a guy that really doesn't fit the ideal murder suspect? It would have been so much easier for them to pin it on Logan or Kline. So much easier and they would probably face a lot less criticism if they said it was one of those two...

LE spent a lot of time and a huge amount of resources looking at other suspects, but yet people want to think LE then conspired to pin a double murder on the wrong guy and nobody is squealing about it but everyone is going right along with it for no reason.

Sounds like a really bad plot to a really bad movie.

jmo

 

[katydid23]

It will be interesting to hear the juror's reactions to RA's imprisonment. I think the "keeping him there for his safety" will fly out the window when they hear the story behind that. MOO

Then again, if by the time the Defense lays out their case, the jurors feel he may be guilty of the crimes, they might be OK with him being incarcerated in high security prison cell. IMO

 

[Inthedetails]

I'll be curious to see if you are correct that the jury didn't like Sarah becAuse she was 'abrasive.' I am feeling it might be the opposite, actually. JMO

I think the D duo has been kind of abrasive towards many witnesses and so if they don't like abrasive people, then the D might b the ones in trouble, imo.

And because the jury has seen the D being aggressive, impatient and abrasive at times, maybe the jury would understand why a young female witness, who admitted to having anxiety about being involved in another murder case, might be defensive and agitated during a heavy cross examination. IMO

Exactly. You don't have to like someone and find them friendly in order to believe what they are saying on the stand.

jmo